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A discussion about Morgellon's (split thread)

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by nandixon, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. nandixon

    nandixon Senior Member

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    (Moderator's Note: The next ten post were split from this thread. The thread was meant to be about a herbal protocol and referred to a blog that mentioned Morgellon's)


    Morgellons, if we're talking about the same thing, is a psychiatric disorder in which patients have a delusional belief they're infected with parasites. It's also known as delusional parasitosis or delusional infestation.

    It's common in the medical field for a doctor, e.g., a dermatologist, to give the patient a "real" diagnosis because the patient's delusion is so strong they can't be persuaded otherwise.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2013
  2. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    Sort of like the delusion of having me or cfs, eh? Or in UK, the delusion of having POTS -- that got a young man incarcerated in a mental institution "for his own good."

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...pots-are-a-delusion.12125/page-19#post-413635
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
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  3. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Yeah, I don't have enough faith in the CDC to dismiss it as purely psychological at this point either. I am just not sure.
     
  4. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    I'm not either. But it's taken about 30 years to get the CDC to stop calling me/cfs a delusional disorder. They started out by calling the Incline Village outbreak "mass hysteria" despite all the physical evidence. And for all we know, the IoM project is intended to steer the course back in that direction.

    Could be that Morgellon's is in the same time warp. I guess this doc is also suffering from the same "delusion."

    "The California doctor did biopsies and microscopic examination, and gave me a signed pathology report with pictures. The pathology report from the California doctor stated, “The clinical figures and histology figures prove you are suffering from Granlomatous Perforating Skin Disorder commonly called Morgellons skin phenomenon.”

    - See more at: http://lymediseaseresource.com/word...ic-lyme-disease-and-morgellons/#comment-10725

    "Then I read the publications of the Charles Holman foundation researchers determining that the “Morgellons” condition had a close association with the Borrielia spirochete."
     
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  5. nandixon

    nandixon Senior Member

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    No, it's different, because in Morgellons the patient actually sees something which doesn't exist. The patient will bring a container into the doctor's office claiming it contain "bugs" that they've removed from their skin. Examination under a microscope reveals it to be bits of dried skin (and/or clothing fibers or lint) that the person has scratched from theirself. They may very well have an actual sensation that creatures are crawling within their skin, but they're also seeing things that don't exist.
     
  6. nandixon

    nandixon Senior Member

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    This is the "real" (i.e., fake) diagnosis I was referring to in my first post. I have some knowledge of this because my girlfriend is a dermatologist who did her residency (or internship) for a dermatologist in Florida who other doctors would send these patients to.

    Because it was impossible to make them understand that the "bugs" they were seeing were just bits of skin and fibers, the patients would be given this diagnosis to placate them.

    It would be similar to you visiting your doctor's office claiming that a pink elephant followed you everywhere and being given a diagnosis of "rosea elephantis followus." :)
     
  7. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    A couple of years ago I saw a Tv programme (German?) where a Morgellons patient was monitored 24/7 to verify his story. The camera filmed this filament coming out of the skin, I saw it. A dr took a sample and sent it for testing. No lab could identify what it was and what exactly it was made of.
    Apart from that if somebody gets better with antiparasitic treatments then its unlikely to be all in the mind.
     
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  8. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    I don't know anything about Morgellons, but I do respect the author of this post on another forum.


    Check out these medical research papers and ask yourself why you've never heard about them?


    Association of spirochetal infection with Morgellons disease:
    http://f1000research.com/articles/2-25/v1

    Characterization and evolution of dermal filaments from patients with Morgellons disease:
    http://www.dovepress.com/characteriz...d-article-CCID

    Morgellons Disease: A Chemical and Light Microscopic Study:
    http://www.omicsonline.org/2155-9554...9554-3-140.php

    Filament formation associated with spirochetal infection: a comparative approach to Morgellons disease:
    http://www.dovepress.com/articles.php?article_id=8655

    Morgellons disease, illuminating an undefined illness: a case series:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2737752/

    Contribution of Agrobacterium to Morgellons:
    http://journals.lww.com/jinvestigati...llons.294.aspx

    There are more, but I'll just add this letter addressed to all medical practitioners by Dr. Randy S. Wymore, Dept. of Pharmacology & Physiology, Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences:
    http://www.healthsciences.okstate.ed...tatement_4.pdf

    And a news report - from Russia (because you won't see this in the US media):
    http://english.pravda.ru/science/mys...ons_disease-0/

    It's important to note that all the above research was carried out on actual live people, and used actual specimens - unlike the CDC fraud, which was simply an exercise in comparative statistics taken from the files of dermatologists and GPs.

    So now I come to the most important reason for posting this information:

    Clifford Carnicom is an independent scientist who has been researching Morgellons since 2003. Carnicom, who has held Top Secret clearance while in the USAF, has produced a staggering amount of research papers on the subject:

    http://www.carnicominstitute.org/htm...s_by_date.html

    And here's the most frightening one: he took 26 healthy individuals, with no external signs or symptoms of Morgellons, and examined their blood. In every single one of them, he found multiple Morgellons pathogens.

    http://www.carnicominstitute.org/articles/morgobs6.htm

    It seems pretty obvious that the entire planet has now got this disease, albeit in a state of dormancy - for now.

    From my own statistics in running my help website, it appears likely that one triggering mechanism is an insect bite or sting.

    But Mr. Carnicom has also found evidence that frequencies can induce the disease:

    http://www.carnicominstitute.org/articles/bio2011-3.htm

    In view of all of this, it may well be that Morgellons Disease is a brand new plague for a brand New World.

    And since it's highly likely that you have it, and your children have it, don't you agree it might be a good idea to start taking a look at it - from a non-allopathic point of view?

    Oh, by the way, I have Morgellons for the past four years - the activated kind. My demodicosis was simply a co-infection, useful to mask what's really going on in the skin and deliver other components like Dictyostelium discoideum and other slime moulds.

    And I can assure you of one thing: no torture yet devised by the mind of man even comes close to the same ballpark as this disease.

    The clock is ticking...

    Namaste, and much love and light to you all.

    David.
    __________________
    http://www.delusionalinsects.com
     
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  9. nandixon

    nandixon Senior Member

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    I'm sure that some cases probably have a real physiological basis, e.g., a bacterial infection, but in others it's psychiatric (delusional).

    I guess part of the problem is that the term "Morgellons" encompasses a number of subsets of individuals with varying underlying illnesses or causes for their illness. Similar to ME/CFS.

    If someone gets better with an anti-parasitic treatment, that doesn't rule out the possibility that they were suffering psychiatric problems as a result of an infection.
     
  10. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    So your third hand report of this so-called dermatologist in Florida, who is committing fraud with his/her fake diagnosis, carries more weight for you than the first hand reports of those who actually have experience with this? Your choice, I guess.

    Funny how all the doctors I know of do not give fake diagnoses to "placate" patients. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of accounts here on this forum of how doctors who don't understand mecfs are willing to tell patients they are crazy, delusional or otherwise unbelievable. Maybe dermatologists are different. One thing is clear, those with suspected Morgellon's should stay away from dermatologists, whose understanding is only skin deep, and seek out help from someone who understands parasitology.
     
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  11. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Not all Morgellons patients "see" something, its often only the ones who start looking at things under magnifying glasses or a microscrope who "see" something.. they all thou feel like something is crawling on them or biting their skin.

    I had Morgellons (what many people arent aware is that it can be a coexisting condition of ME/CFS)..

    I didnt "see" anything for a very long time.. I had the illness a couple of years before I saw anything and when I did.. I only "twice" saw something.. once I saw three mite looking things just under my skin which moved and then I couldnt see them anymore when I tried to inspect them. The second time I saw something was right at the end of my illness with it.. I had an incident where this hard, crystaline, wee rice like structure stuff started coming out of my skin (that is a manifestation mentioned in some rare Morgellons cases.. I never saw spects of black dust nor threads but then I never got out a magnifying glass to look). Would I have seen the classical threads of Morgellon's had I looked with magnifying glass.. who knows? (I didnt know anything about Morgellons at the time to know or think to even look like that).

    Morgellons disease for me was all about feel and the sensations around it. Interestingly..when all this hard tiny rice like stuff started to come out (interestingly Ive since read that something like that can happen in fibreglass poisoning).. and once it did, it was like whatever I was carrying had died (all the crawling sensations just under and on my skin went) and my Morgellons actually went. Ive never had it come back.

    Anyway.. I had a hellish time with it there for a while.. unbearable sensations.. so so itchy I wanted to rip my skin off. I think I got rid of my Morgellons and killed whatever it was by all the things I was doing to try to relieve it and did help a touch.. eg long salt and bicarb of soda baths (I was sleeping in a salt bath as it was one of the few ways I could get some relief). I do believe it was some kind of parasite thing as it also improved a bit with white sage smudging (like what is done to kill parasites) and things like rubbing lavender oil on my skin helped a wee wee bit. One can feel stuff coming out (pressure leaving the skin) even when one couldnt see anything.

    One Morgellons disease study found that all the ones in the study tested positive to lyme. (Ive seen a lyme specialist and she does think I have lyme but I dont test postive).

    One thing interesting was that others visiting me.. would start itching heaps if they sat down where I'd been previously sitting. I even saw people often get up and move after trying to sit where I'd previously been sitting, I experimented with this..offering my visitors a seat where I'd been sitting just after welcoming them into my home.. even if I was making sure I didnt itch.. if they sat where I'd been, they'd start itching right after sitting there (their itchy would stop after they'd moved away from the area I'd been sitting while feeling all these things coming out of me).. (note I didnt tell any of them about the experiment I was doing as telling them could of caused them to start itching due to thinking of it).

    . So obviously whatever it was, tried to contaminate others too but their bodies must of been able to stop it taking hold as none of them ended up with Morgellons. (thou my daughter ended up scratching for several weeks). Was I more susceptable to some parasite due to already having ME/CFS? I believe that may of been so.

    It even had a pattern to it... whatever it was, become far worst at a certain time at night when it felt like it went into a feeding frenzy in my skin.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
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  12. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I think that things are much more confused than Morgellon's being any one thing, parasite of delusion.

    It seems like another thing where, 1) lots of patients get treated by their doctors as if they're mentally ill in absence of good positive evidence that this is the case and 2) this then leads to lots of them rejecting 'mainstream' medicine and believing bullshit about their symptoms instead, which further reinforces the view that they're mentally ill.

    I've 'spoken' on-line to a couple of different patients who thought that they had Morgellons, and neither of them were convinced that they were suffering from parasites. They both disliked the assumption that they were mentally ill though, and thought it was quacky.

    It seems pretty likely to me that it's another thing where patients can have all sorts of things wrong with them, and end up in the 'morgellon's' group. Nerve/neurological problems making people itchy, skin problems, allergies, etc. I was read about someone who had some for of psoriasis and ended up with the diagnosis... it's easy for things to go wrong in medicine, and lots of people can end up being badly treated.

    Lots of people with 'Morgellon's' seem to believe things that are not supported by the evidence, and it's worth trying to point this out, but I think it's unreasonable to jump from that to the assumption that their health problems are a result of mental illness.
     
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  13. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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  14. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    FWIW I read recently that Joni Mitchell has Morgellon's.
     
  15. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    Interesting that the forensic lab in Oklahoma checked the fibers against the FBI database and found that those fibers were not in there. Of more than 100,000 known fibers, these were not identifiable. So where does the argument that these are fibers "from the environment" stand?

    And the interviewed doctors, who, after being informed of this and shown the lab reports, still insist patients are "delusional." Who's delusional when it is proven by forensics that the fibers are completely unknown? It's another case of "Don't confuse me with the facts; my mind's made up."

    Their excuse: "There's nothing in the medical literature about this." So, I guess AIDS didn't exist back in the 80s when there was "nothing in the medical literature."

    Except that back in the early 1900s these fibers were observed and called Morgellon's disease. ABC was able to find that, but these docs can't.
     
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  16. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    What Iquitos said!

    Not to mention the strange blind faith in the "medical literature", as if that wasn't itself compiled by individuals observing and notating
    natural phenomena that had heretofore either not been observed or explained. And is if the whole of science was written in stone and not instead based as it is on the recognition that our knowledge is ever-changing because our ability to apprehend real wisdom is always limited by the current dataset.

    Blindly adhering to the limitations of the current data set in view of the changeable history of that dataset--now *that* is delusional, or at the very least, magical thinking. He might as well practice with a lucky rabbit's foot.
     
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  17. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Do I notice a touch of cynicism in these last two posts? Well, I guess that means I just HAVE to toss in my two cents worth as well. ;) --- Have you ever thought of the condescending ways current conventional medicine refers to unconventional medical therapies, whether they're "older", or "foreign", etc.? They like to use terms like "folk medicine" (as in perhaps well meaning, but quite naive, and perhaps even a bit daffy).

    And then there's their way of referring to valid, and often voluminous observations, as "anecdotal" (as in unscientific, can't be trusted, or given any kind of credibility). And oh how they love to take credit when folk remedies and/or anecdotal stories are somehow confirmed by "SCIENCE" to be valid (as in, I think we can make an expensive drug, or devise an expensive surgery to profit from OUR newly discovered science). --- Hmmm, a believe my little mini-rant was just the right thing to sort of pull me out of my morning stupor. Thanks guys! :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
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  18. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    This reminds me of an interesting program on the Discovery channel recently. Basically someone wanted to produce spider silk commercially, but it was impractical since each spider would need separate housing due to them being cannibals. So the silk-producing spider genes were spliced into goats, and the spider silk proteins were excreted in the goats' milk where they could be extracted.

    Anyhow, I wonder if a genetic mutation might be capable of causing some people to produce unusual proteins which could then be secreted through the skin?
     
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  19. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @brenda
    The medical research papers you posted above are a good collection, and I would draw people's attention to this recent and very interesting study:

    Characterization and evolution of dermal filaments from patients with Morgellons disease

    This study found that the Morgellons fibers were composed of keratin and collagen coming from activated keratinocyte and fibroblast cells in the skin (these cells are responsible for manufacturing keratin and collagen).

    The authors also found evidence of a spirochete infection of the skin, and I believe their hypothesis is that this spirochete infection may be infecting or affecting the keratinocyte and fibroblast cells, causing thee cells to malfunction and create these keratin and collagen fibers.

    It is also interesting to note that both syphilis and Borrelia are spirochetes, and both can cause schizophrenia-like psychotic states. Thus a spirochete infection may explain both the skin symptoms and skin fibers of Morgellons, and the psychosis mental states that appear in some Morgellons patients.


    Note that the Clifford Carnicom stuff you posted above is pure pseudoscience.
     
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  20. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    A Lyme / Morgellons Story - Ramona's Journey Back To Health

    I've read a lot of stories, but this one in particular stood out for me. The author mentions a number of things I've not heard of before (like GMO insects that are used for pest control???), and that Lyme bacteria is also a GMO creation. She touches on other environmental hazards like chemtrails.

    Her website focuses on how she recovered from Lyme & Moregellons, and what she does to protect herself from many environmental dangers. She's big into far infrared (FIR) products, which she feels are critical in helping her protect herself and her family. Here's the link:

    Ramona's Journey Back to Health
     
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