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*A CALL FOR ACTION!* We need the isolates sequenced!

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by VillageLife, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    Good, than you can contact Dr. Mikovits and ask her. I'm sure you know her email address.

    It was said on the ME/CFS forums that Dr. Mikovits says it costs 2,500$ to sequence one isolate. This is a rumor, and I don't know if that's accurate. It could be that it is accurate and that Racaniello is talking about another sequencing method which costs much less (but the techniques that he supported so far seem to not be able to find XMRV, for some reason, so perhaps this is also why you need a more expensive technique). Also, Dr. Mikovits talks sometimes about "bulk cloning" against "indivudually cloning" - the latter is much better, and perhaps that's also what happens in sequencing - I don't know.

    But again, if Dr. Mikovits says that it costs 2,500$ for each, than that's what it costs (and she can probably explain why Racaniello talks about 81$...), and therefore, I WOULD URGE YOU AGAIN, CORT, TO ASK HER - SO THAT WE CAN KNOW WHAT SHE REALLY SAYS AND WE CAN GIVE HER THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN, BEFORE PEOPLE START TO DOUBT HER WITH NO FACTS IN THEIR HANDS.
     
  2. Bob

    Bob

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    omerbasket, I don't think anyone on this thread has been 'doubting' Judy or the WPI... That's not the way I read the discussion... It was more about discussing the possibilities, without having any answers... I hope I didn't give the impression of doubting Judy's integrity... That wasn't my intention... I suppose it's not really helpful having this sort of speculative discussion, but it would be nice to know what's going on! I suppose we'll just have to be patient!
     
  3. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    With certain people here, I don't need them to say much in order to feel that they doubt her integrity. Anyway, this does not matter - as it would be much more fair to contact her and recieve her answer, before starting to speculate. She is much more than fair in regard to answering her mails - she answers them, and she does that, most of the times, quickly.
     
  4. jace

    jace Off the fence

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    From the transcript I made of the discussion after Alter's summing up re Mikovits and Coffin:

    Judy Mikovits
    I imagine that this work is what the NIH grant mentioned earlier was given for. I too remember that Judy said it was more like $2,500 to sequence the virus, and let's face it, she should know.
     
  5. insearchof

    insearchof Senior Member

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    So, the inference is....that there will be short cuts to produce results within that time frame?
     
  6. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Omerbasket - I'm not bashing Judy. If its 2,500 to do one isolate that seems well worth it. If you consider that you only need 4 o5 isolates with high genetic variability to overturn the contamination theories I think $10,000 or even more an isolate would be well worth it. Its the contamination stuff, after all, that may be inhibiting the WPI from publishing papers or for getting more funding or from convincing drug companies to start on treatment trials. To me, sitting on the outside, a laymen, it seems like a great idea to get that data out
     
  7. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    QUOTE...THe low gene variability data is also what has prevented much of the research establishment from accepting that the Lo/ALter MLV sequences are part ofthe XMRV family.....right now there is too much of a gap between XMRV and the MLV sequences genetically for them to appear that they come from the same source. If that was true then there should be a gradation of sequences that are intermediate between the two. Instead in the analyses there's XMRV on one side and the MLV's on the other. If the WPI could fill in those spaces then they would get alot more agreement that these two findings are related.....QUOTE CORT.


    Cort, the sequence gap between MLVs and XMRV is not a problem as far as I can see as they are not one virus.

    XMRV is the virus you find if you do PCR specifically or it. There are other MLVs also present in about a third of patients.
    XMRV does not need to mutate in the human population much if it is spreading not from human to human but from cell line to human. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS147 (This link is from the PR thread on Gkikias Magiorkinis article in the Lancet of April 2011)
    XMRV itself is only one type of MLV.

    See Dr Deckoff-Jones latest blog. http://treatingxmrv.blogspot.com
    She has put up links to research published in the 1970s showing MLVs in human lymphomas. The papers concluded that these MLVs had been acquired during life somehow as they were not in the germline.
     
  8. Bob

    Bob

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    I don't think that I've seen this info anywhere before...
    Are you referring to any specific research, currer?
    Would you mind pointing to where you read or heard about this please?
     
  9. Bob

    Bob

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    Here's a direct link to the specific blog entry that you are referring to, in case it's helpful to anyone.
    http://treatingxmrv.blogspot.com/2011/05/aloha.html
     
  10. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    Hi, Bob,
    I remember you made a similar request of me some time ago!
    My memory is that Judy Mikovits stated this in her talk at the New York Academy of Sciences "Pathogens and the Blood Supply" webinar on March 29 2011.

    If you can find this talk up on the web, I'd be grateful as I'd like to hear it again. Last I heard it had been taken down.
    PS. Do you take notes? You often want references.
     
  11. Bob

    Bob

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    Hi currer,
    Thanks very much for the info.
    Yes, I thought I'd asked you for some details before... But i couldn't remember what details I'd asked you for (I've got an appalling memory!)... I thought you couldn't remember your source of info last time? So thanks for this info.
    You do post interesting titbits of information! And I follow the XMRV developments extremely closely.
    I don't always make notes, but I do make mental notes about significant news, and sometimes I make a list of links to the news sources.
    It's strange, but I seem to have an excellent memory for XMRV news but nothing else! But I think my memory was a bit like that before I was ill anyway. (Able to remember certain types of info but not others.)
    I'll have a look for that video, and if I find it, I'll be sure to let you know.
    Thanks,
    Bob
     
  12. Bob

    Bob

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    hi currer, do you think that you are you referring to the info in the post below, that i've bolded?

     
  13. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    Hi Bob,
    Yes I think these notes must relate to the same statement I remember hearing in the talk. But I think I have heard JM say something similar in another talk - was it the one in Norway? This was what you asked me about before and I could only refer you to the video of the talk. I remember that as being findings of even more distant sequences of virus in one patient. This is the problem if the WPI cannot get their research published. We are all dependent on memory or have to hunt through a whole recording of a talk for one bit of info.
    However if you look at the abstract on the NYAS site for JM you will see references to other MLVs in there.

    I suppose we are drifting off topic for this thread. To get back onto the subject, is it worthwhile to sequence XMRV in such detail if there are many related MLVs in patients, some or all of which may also be pathogenic? (As shown in the 1970s research on lymphoma and MLVs).
    Is nailing XMRV just a diversion from the central problem?
     
  14. Bob

    Bob

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    Thanks currer. I'll see if I can find any of the info you've referred to.

    Personally, I think that if there are a multitude of MLV's in humans, then the XMRV research will prove to be the first step in investigating all of them properly. Or I'm hoping so anyway.
    So I think that XMRV research is the opposite of a diversion... I'm hoping that in the long term it will focus minds on the issue and is a necessary stepping stone to further research development into MLV's in humans.
     
  15. Bob

    Bob

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    I haven't found the video, but none of the synopses of the Norway talk, that I've read, mention her finding more distant variants or sequences. I'll keep my eye out for more info.

    I've just had a look and it only refers to XMRVs and PMRVs, unless I've missed something.

    Thanks for your help currer.
     
  16. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    Ah, I spot a problem. I think I am using MLV where I should be using MRV. Am I confusing you? I think JM only refers to MRVs in her patients not MLVs.
     
  17. Bob

    Bob

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    It's OK, you're not confusing me (although that isn't difficult)... I knew that you meant 'MRVs'.
     
  18. KnightofZERO

    KnightofZERO

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    I agree, WPI needs $

    It would go a long way to put the contamination theories to bed if more sequences were in GenBank showing the genetic diversity you'd expect from a natural infection--or given that there are no human MRV infections besides this one, more genetic diversity than would be found in any cell line.

    this is one reason we need to get the WPI money. The sooner we have more sequences the more we know, the sooner we will be helped...

    Also I think we should consider asking the NIH to appoint a "Grant Liaison Officer" for ME/CFIDS research of who had some kind of monetary funding power...

    We all know that grants take forever to write and forever to get approved. If we can get the NIH to put "an advance on grant funding" for scientists who have done "innovative research" in this field (they should have an idea who these people are after the SOK, but notably WPI)

    If this could happen similar the way one gets an advance on some kind of large business payment, until the full grant is approved... it would speed up the science very much at this critical stage.

    The low number as documented by Pat Fero to be only about 3.75 ish dollars per each of us per annum--a great deal of which undoubtedly doesn't even go to biomedical research--is disgraceful.
     

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