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A B2 story

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by stridor, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

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    I am the exact same way!

    Before methylation support, in addition to the brain symptoms, my gut and body in general felt like it was tightening and shriveling up. Now I just get the brain shut off but my body and stomach stay calm. That's a huge improvement. Now I just need to stabilize my brain:D
  2. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    I take 500mg a day, sometimes an extra capsule. I have tried eating egg yolks, but they make me sick. Here's an article by Chris Masterjohn that explains what it means.
    http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/12/meeting-choline-requirement-eggs-organs.html
    In this article he says that sugar(but not glucose), alcohol and fat cause fatty liver, which causes methylation problems, but vitamin d, B's, stress and sex hormones, all can cause congestion and methylation problems. I don't know what mercury does to the liver and why it causes a methyl block, maybe someone can help me with that. That's probably one of my big ones.
    I think I read somewhere why CoQ-10 would cause issues, but I can't remember where.
  3. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    Do you know your manganese status? A nutritionist told me that magnesium can substitute for manganese in some, but not all, of its functions and that a high need for magnesium can be the result of low manganese.
  4. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    I don't know what mercury does to the liver and why it causes a methyl block, maybe someone can help me with that. That's probably one of my big ones.
    I think I read somewhere why CoQ-10 would cause issues, but I can't remember where.[/quote]

    Mercury and lead interfere with the function of MTR and without this a methyl group can not be donated to methionine. More pertinent to your question folate gets stuck in the irreversible form 5-methyltetrahydrofolate. This stuff just wanders around with nothing to do. And the methylation pathway grinds to a halt. I had this and it was not fun. I was taking a product with 800 mcg of mfolate and just 100 mcg of some form of unidentified B12. I now take mB12 1 mg by injection daily. No problem seeing that I did not have enough B12 going on.
    CoQ10 is a real problem I was just reading on the B12 thread when there is not enough adenosylcobalamin available to the mitochondria. Co Q10 has not been doable for me yet, I just ordered dibencozide.
  5. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Wrong guy but I just wanted to say that I used to have had a real problem with manganese after a friend developed manganese poisoning and Parkinson's after welding for a career. (Warn everyone.) It has taken me a long time to remember that I never even welded :) ....... and I just started a small amount of manganese (for SOD).
  6. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Mercury and lead interfere with the function of MTR and without this a methyl group can not be donated to methionine. More pertinent to your question folate gets stuck in the irreversible form 5-methyltetrahydrofolate. This stuff just wanders around with nothing to do. And the methylation pathway grinds to a halt. I had this and it was not fun. I was taking a product with 800 mcg of mfolate and just 100 mcg of some form of unidentified B12. I now take mB12 1 mg by injection daily. No problem seeing that I did not have enough B12 going on.
    CoQ10 is a real problem I was just reading on the B12 thread when there is not enough adenosylcobalamin available to the mitochondria. Co Q10 has not been doable for me yet, I just ordered dibencozide. <Quote>

    I guess mercury to the liver would be why vaccinations, which they say contains only a very small amount of mercury, can knock out a young child's methylation.
    It can be very difficult to get mercury out of the liver, well out of anywhere. After I had my amalgams removed I had horrible headaches for 2 years and I couldn't carry a conversation. Now I'm better than I was before I had them removed, but sheesh, it was really bad. I'm sure it's still part of my liver and methylation problem. I forget, what did you say you used to get the mercury out?
    Do you eat dairy? I was just noticing today that potassium is taking care of some of my problems that dairy causes, and so I was wondering if dairy causes low potassium. I found some information on milk alkalai which may be pertinent at least to me. It can cause adrenal insufficiency, potassium deficiency, and I don't even know what else because I have a horrible headache and bad cold, which I think I brought on by taking too much potassium along with potassium rich foods. I bought some bananas and am going to try that route, slow but steady. Now my spine hurts really bad, and I know I read about that symptoms somewhere but can't remember where. This isn't going the way I planned.

    One thing I may have done right is I am taking dibencozide.
  7. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

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    thanks bluestem - in fact I don't know my manganese status. I think you're the second person to mention something about manganese to me. last time, I researched it and could not make up my mind. Andy Cutler has a paragraph about it in his book Amalgam Illness but no longer recommends it. says to use it with care since too muchcan cause lots of trouble but "don't be afraid to try a little now and then if the things mentioned are problems or your tests show you are low".

    can you tell me what test to use? or do you think I should just try a little?
  8. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    [I guess mercury to the liver would be why vaccinations, which they say contains only a very small amount of mercury, can knock out a young child's methylation.
    It can be very difficult to get mercury out of the liver, well out of anywhere.

    I think that most of the symptoms that we identify as methylation or mercury come from the brain. This is not to suggest that some strong and difficult to treat symptoms do not originate in the liver...they do. Ethylmercury, found in vaccines is probably one of the most toxic forms that we are likely to encounter. There is no blood-brain-barrier as far as ethylmercury is concerned.
    The half-life of mercury in the body is 3 months. This would be for someone with normal methylation and no further exposure - amalgams out and no tuna sandwiches. The half-life of mercury in the brain is 15-20 years - again same stipulations.
    We used frequent-dosing of ALA (alpha lipoic acid) to bring the mercury back out of the brain. Yahoo's FDC site is a goldmine of information and support. Now that the amalgams are gone, you can do a trial run of ALA. Just take say 25 mg every 3 hours, around the clock for 3 days and nights. If you feel better or worse, you have mercury. If you feel nothing, then you are OK.

    I have experimented with some dairy. I was unable to have many foods during my crisis 2011-2012 and I had to stop gluten in 2007. The gluten sensitivity is still strong but others have improved. Something is causing me to have folliculitis of the scalp and while I have turned my gaze to dairy, I have yet to decide if it is in anyway involved.
    Potassium is something that I have done nothing about. I take daily injections of mB12 and according to this site K might be a potential problem. I used to have a banana craving and ate a lot of them but have little interest in them now. I listen closely to this kind of signalling.
  9. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    <I think that most of the symptoms that we identify as methylation or mercury come from the brain. This is not to suggest that some strong and difficult to treat symptoms do not originate in the liver...they do. Ethylmercury, found in vaccines is probably one of the most toxic forms that we are likely to encounter. There is no blood-brain-barrier as far as ethylmercury is concerned.>

    When you say the symptom that we identify as methylation (or mercury) come from the brain, do you mean methylation occurs in the brain or that methylation affects the brain more than any other organ?

    What happens to the mercury after it's half life. That's one term I don't understand.

    I had used a body soak for getting out chemicals and heavy metals for about 2 years, and that helped in a lot of ways. This past summer I really wanted to quit dairy and was eating canned tuna for protein because it was the only thing i could handle. I figured that the mercury was in the fat, and there's no fat in canned tuna, so it should be okay. But upon quitting it last week, I was definitely having mercury exiting my body symptoms, so I am starting to do the body soaks again. Right now I'm down to nuts for protein, I can only hope it works.

    I can get a distaste for bananas, too. I am going to try watercress, sun dried olives, pecans, and cashews when I can get to Whole foods. Kelp is a good source, and so are pickled red beets. I have to make a permanent change.

    Potassium gluconate is causing the uncomfortable digestive upsets that I have read others talk about, but I might just get some potassium chloride and make a homeopathic type remedy. Bernard Jensen says that more potassium ensures more oxygen, and thus ensures germ resistance. But he also says it should be taken in food source.
  10. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Mercury affects the body in 2 main ways. It causes oxidation and it interferes with the function of enzymes. Hold onto that thought...50% of all folate is found in the mitochondria. And AdenoB12 is needed for energy production. Methylation is necessary for mitochondria to function.
    If we do a PET scan of the body, 2 things will show up. The left ventricle of the heart and the brain. These are our most active organs and use a huge portion of the calories and nutrients that we take in. The brain is quite sensitive to oxidation and many psychiatric illnesses and symptoms are related directly and indirectly to oxidation. Almost 20% of our energy is spent just repairing cell walls and membranes from the damage caused by free radicals.
    Because these 2 organs "burn the brightest" they are susceptible to anything that disrupts the enzyme pathways, decrease glutathione or increase oxidation....enter mercury.....Every now and then a kid dies on the basketball court at high school - awful. Some Italian researchers took a look and found these kids had big flabby hearts and.....wait for it.....22,000 times the amount of mercury than anticipated.
    Those of us with ME have varying degrees of CCSVI...or that is what one small study found at any rate. I was tested and have it. It is thought to be due to the mitochondria in the heart operating at a subpar level. The tricuspid valve weakens and blood squirts back towards the brain = less oxygen to the brain, pressure on the BBB and less ability to remove by-products of metabolism. Brain-fog anyone?
    In the brain, mercury is worse. The methyl group is dropped leaving Hg2 which is more toxic. The brain binds it with glutathione and stores it in the astrocytes away from neurons. In the astrocytes it interferes with glutathione production. Again...it decreases production and hogs up remaining glutathione decreasing it further. The astrocytes provide glutathione for the neurons and without enough glutathione peroxidase, H2O2 builds in the mitochondria and lowers the ph. The enzymes (already impacted by mercury) are ph sensitive and stop working. Energy production drops and we have the CNS signs of mercury.
    One of the enzymes that Hg interferes with is methionine synthase. Interference with methylation causes numerous problems including decrease of BH4 and therefore a decrease in neurotransmitters = more symptoms of Hg toxicity. This is one of the reasons that MTHFR and mercury sites discuss many of the same topics.
    I have over-simplified a very complex system. For people who really understand everything going on here, I apologize.
    A half-life is the length of time it takes for half the mercury to leave. So in the brain half will be gone in 15-20 years and we will 'only' have 25% left after 40 years. This is why we take ALA to remove it. Some of us are too old to wait it out!
    merylg, Violeta and Bead Dog like this.
  11. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Holy mackeral.

    Back when I had my fillings removed the thing they recommended for removing the mercury was Vitamin C. I never see that recommended anymore.

    And have you ever tried apple cider vinegar for you folliculitis?
  12. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    stridor

    Crashing makes you feel like you are dying - Yes, exactly, wish I had a buck everytime I said it feels like my cells are dying.

    Stridor, what do you consider your 'mito panel'? I am also interested in trying to understand my mito status and what SNPs migh affect.

    Thanks for sharing.
  13. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    I have 4 TCN2 homozyg with risk alleles.....no wonder I have B12 issues.
    Crux likes this.
  14. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    The vitamin C is super-important when you get amalgams removed and as one of the main supplements while chelating. Mercury does not come away cleanly - there is a lot of oxidation. It does not chelate.
    The vinegar - swallow it or rinse my hair with it?
  15. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    roxie60 likes this.
  16. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    I do hair mineral testing. I do not know if a blood test would also work.

    If you to hair testing, be aware that the quality of labs varies greatly. The two labs that I know that do dependable work are Trace Elements, Inc. and Analytical Research Labs. This is old research, so there may now be others, I just don’t know who they are.

    I do not know enough about manganese to know how dangerous it would be to take it without testing. Do you have any of the problems that Andy Cutler mentions?
  17. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Both.

    I did post an answer to this, I don't know what happened to it????
  18. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

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    I also do hair testing but have deranged mineral transport: http://howirecovered.com/my-toxic-and-essential-elements-hair-test/ so the manganese level is not reliable.

    Anyway, I do have the blood sugar issue and connective tissue problems and osteoporosis, so I'm going to test a small amount...
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  19. fozzaw

    fozzaw

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    The dangers of manganese supplementation are over-emphasized. There are very few actual cases of toxicity from oral supplementation, and almost all the human toxicity data are derived from cases where people were exposed from breathing it. What is less often mentioned is that the body doesn't retain manganese very well once ingestion stops. If you read about adverse reactions carefully, it is usually a result of fast onset of iron or other cation deficiency (e.g. someone on FDC a few months ago claimed managanese caused her neurological damage, but a careful reading of the symptoms was more indicative of iron deficiency). I was able to induce the exact same symptoms myself and then reverse it with iron supplementation while keeping my manganese dose the same.

    Also, my experience with manganese and molybdenum (which I took for months while I mistakenly thought I was copper toxic because of high hair copper) is that manganese acts as a copper mimic when copper deficient.
    Sparrowhawk likes this.
  20. howirecovered

    howirecovered Senior Member

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    interesting and good to know. I started with 8 mg today.

    I also reread what Cutler says about manganese in Hair Test Interpretation and I think he writes more about manganese than any other mineral, at least two full pages. It seems that one of his main concerns is that people with lead and mercury toxicity are extra susceptible to manganese toxicity because the three are synergistic. I do have lead and mercury so probably won't try anything higher than 8 mg...

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