New Atmosphere, New Vision: Gibson and Whittemore Kick Off Invest in ME Conference 2016
Mark Berry reports on Dr. Gibson's introduction and Dr. Whittemore's keynote speech, at the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

7 Day NAD+ Infusions (Severe ME/CFS Recovery, Neurological / Mitochondrial / Genetic Repair) + POLL

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Jesse2233, Feb 17, 2018.

?

What is your experience with NAD+ ?

  1. I had the full NAD+ IV protocol and benefitted (7+ infusions)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. I had the full NAD+ IV protocol and did not benfit (7+ infusions)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I had 1-6 NAD+ IVs and benefitted

    2 vote(s)
    6.5%
  4. I had 1-6 NAD+ IVs and did not benefit

    1 vote(s)
    3.2%
  5. I tried and benefited from nasal NAD+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. I tried but did not benefit from nasal NAD+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. I tried and benefited from oral NAD+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. I tried but did not benefit from oral NAD+

    4 vote(s)
    12.9%
  9. I tried and benefited from transdermal NAD+ (patch)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. I tried but did not benefit from transdermal NAD+ (patch)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. I have not tried NAD+ but have benefited from a NAD+ precursor (NIAGEN, Niacin, B3, NADH etc)

    4 vote(s)
    12.9%
  12. I have not tried NAD+ and have not benefited from a NAD+ precursor (NIAGEN, Niacin, B3, NADH etc)

    6 vote(s)
    19.4%
  13. I have never tried any form of NAD+ or NAD+ precursor

    14 vote(s)
    45.2%
  1. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes:
    5,121
    Southern California
    I've been researching NAD+ IVs extensively in the last few days. NAD+ is of course a crucial co-factor in cellular metabolism, and one that is plausibly deficient in many ME/CFS patients.

    -------------------


    The full NAD+ infusion protocol is 7-12 days of 1500mg 8 hour infusions. This is said to replenish deficient levels, and nasal supplementation can then be continued as maintenance.

    Research at Harvard is being done to see if therapeutic NAD+ can repair neurological damage in Parkinson's and ALS

    There are also studies looking at its ability to restore normal mitochondrial function, reverse autoimmunity, and repair genetic damage.

    It seems to be another protocol that few ME/CFS patients have tried in full (due to limited availability, high cost ~$10-20k, and large time commitment).

    I've included a poll to see if anyone here has had it. Please select your most successful outcome.

    ---------------------

    Here's an interesting primer by a South African doctor named Theo Verwey on NAD+'s therapeutic use.
    • He puts CFS under the umbrella of a condition called NED (NAD Energy Deficiency)

    • He claims that one can measure their "Energy Value" via a formula involving lactate to pyruvate ratio. And that Energy Values below 100 indicate a need for therapeutic NAD+

      Take the lowest score of the following:

      (Pyruvate value x 1000) ÷ Lactate value

      or

      If Pyruvate Value is between 0 to 0.048 then Pyruvate Value ÷ 0.0003
      If Pyruvate Value is 0.049 and greater then 8 ÷ Pyruvate Value

      or

      If Lactate Value is between 0 to 1.00 then Lactate Value ÷ 0.005
      If Lactate Value is 1.01 and greater then 220 ÷ Lactate Value

    • He says 7-12 weeks of intensive NAD+ treatment are needed to restore depleted levels with supplementation continuing afterwards
    ------------------------

    Here is an interview with a severe CFS patient named Thomas (bedridden, ill 7 years) who recovered fully. I have personally spoken to him, his story is real.

    He had 7 days of high dose IV NAD+, with additional maintenance. Since recovering he ran and placed in the top 10% of a Spartan Race (high endurance with obstacles).

    The interview also includes Dr. Philip Milgram, MD (who uses NAD+ in addiction), and Dr Ross Grant, PhD (a leading NAD+ researcher).

    -------------------------

    It has also been shown that NAD+ levels prompt exit from dauer state in c elegans (of importance due to Dr Naviaux's dauer / hypometabolic theory).

    More discussion of that here: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...that-promotes-exit-from-dauer-diapause.57363/
     
    MartinK, kelly8, MEMum and 8 others like this.
  2. dreampop

    dreampop Senior Member

    Messages:
    253
    Likes:
    595
    Any doctors in the US doing this for CFS? Seems easy enough to try.
     
  3. MartinDH

    MartinDH Senior Member

    Messages:
    173
    Likes:
    449
    Sounds promising
     
  4. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes:
    2,182
    Just to notice that Niagen = Nicotinamide Riboside (NAD precursor)

    For those who took NAD+ cell regenerator by Life Extension, it is not NAD inside, it it this precursor.

    I had some benefits from it, but I am looking to do a trial with oral NAD, if I can get some!
     
    echobravo likes this.
  5. NotThisGuy

    NotThisGuy Senior Member

    Messages:
    274
    Likes:
    282
    Germany
    anyone got a link where I can purchase NAD+ ?
     
  6. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

    Messages:
    227
    Likes:
    308
    Very, very interesting stuff. I'm going to research it much more in depth. Thank you.

    Why is it so expensive?? Isn't NAD+ just a vitamin/supplement. Are they giving a special or proprietary form of NAD like Niagen or something similar? I can't believe it's so expensive.
     
    MartinDH likes this.
  7. ErdemX

    ErdemX Senior Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes:
    239
    Istanbul
    I have tried 600mg of oral Nicotinamide Riboside (Niagen) daily for one month with no benefit. I was thinking that Niagen is superior to NAD+, but maybe I am wrong?

    This is of course not the same as the IV NAD+ protocol mentioned here.
     
  8. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes:
    5,121
    Southern California
    Some integrative practitioners are, but I’m not aware of any mainstream drs using it

    Agreed

    Let us know!

    Amazon has it

    My understanding is that the expense comes from the long infusion times, and high cost of the molecule in IV doses

    Yes, IV NAD+ is supposed to have superior absorption
     
    MEMum likes this.
  9. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes:
    2,182
    Niagen is only a NAD+ precursor, so NAD+ is better
     
  10. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes:
    2,182
    I didn't find any NAD+ on amazon, only the NIAGEN (Nicotinamide Riboside), or the NADH precursors...
     
  11. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes:
    5,121
    Southern California
    MEMum and pattismith like this.
  12. echobravo

    echobravo Keep searching, the answer is out there

    Messages:
    121
    Likes:
    228
    Norway
    Could this be taken transdermally?

    If so, any chance of DIY’ing a spray or cream?

    Dr. Myhill uses ADC in some of her transdermal products, e.g. the B12 spray.

    From her webpage: “ADC is an organic sulphur carrier molecule derived from tree bark which is similar to methyl sulfonyl (MSM - an arthritis treatment). It easily passes through skin carrying whatever is dissolved within it.”
     
    MartinDH likes this.
  13. NotThisGuy

    NotThisGuy Senior Member

    Messages:
    274
    Likes:
    282
    Germany
  14. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes:
    5,121
    Southern California
    The nasal NAD+ can be ordered from a compounding pharmacy by a doctor
     
    MEMum and echobravo like this.
  15. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

    Messages:
    2,329
    Likes:
    3,997
    Pacific Northwest
    I am getting it from my naturopathic doctor. I get a small amount put in my vitamin IVs and it boosts my energy for 2 days.
    http://m.liasresearch.com
    It seems to depend on what pathways you have working or not. Studies say athletes perform better on Niagen (nicotinamide riboside) but it did nothing for me, at high dose, for a month.

    NAD+ in IVs is different than Niagen. It is closer to making ATP.

    Are you sure that's really NAD+? It seems to be missing the +
    I've been using the LIAS Research product for about 3 weeks and found it helpful. I got the bottle of 100 25mg pills. 1 a day is helping. I was able to ski for 5 hours last week taking 3 of them, first time in 3 years...
    That's what my doctor said, too, but he says its sticky and unpleasant. The pills are working fine.
     
    kelly8, junkcrap50, ErdemX and 3 others like this.
  16. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes:
    5,121
    Southern California
    @Learner1 congrats on the skiing! That’s quite a milestone!

    I wonder what kind of benefit you’d get from the high dose IV protocol, although I understand the wisdom of going slow and steady
     
    echobravo likes this.
  17. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

    Messages:
    2,329
    Likes:
    3,997
    Pacific Northwest
    I wonder too, but think it isn't likely it'll solve my other problems. I need to work on those first, and then maybe I'll give it a try. I'm a little nervous about pushing my mitochondria too far while they're still challenged.

    They seem to be generating a fair amount of oxidative stress. We're trying to figure out where its coming from. I've been reading the paper @Countrygirl posted which discusses infections causing autoimmunity causing mitochondrial dysfunction causing oxidative stress and it sounds mighty familiar to me...

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...toimmunity-and-me-an-explanatory-model.57761/

    Pushing them a bit at a time seems wiser to me for now. I think I'm only getting a couple grams of NAD+ in the IVs and it's going a long way to help me function.
     
    ScottTriGuy, Jesse2233 and anni66 like this.
  18. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes:
    5,121
    Southern California
    Right if you’re steadily improving no need to rock the boat (a lesson I should probably learn)
     
  19. perrier

    perrier Senior Member

    Messages:
    707
    Likes:
    1,281
    Learner,
    That is fabulous news! Bravo!
    One clarification however: are you getting the NAD via IV, as well as taking the lozenges on that website?
     
  20. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

    Messages:
    2,329
    Likes:
    3,997
    Pacific Northwest
    Yes, I'm doing both. I get the IV with NAD+, nutrients and PolyMVA (which also helps my mitochondria) one day a week, which keeps me perked up for a couple of days, then I use the lozenges on the other days.

    On top of the other things I've been doing, Its given me patches of more normal life. I'm not cured, but it makes life more predictable.

    In Canada, my doctor says you can get adenosine monophosphate (AMP) for IV use. He's seen patients on it in Vancouver, with good results.

    I'm just experimenting, and have no idea if there's a downside to all of this.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page