Julie Rehmeyer's 'Through the Shadowlands'
Writer Never Give Up talks about Julie Rehmeyer's new book "Through the Shadowlands: A Science Writer's Odyssey into an Illness Science Doesn't Understand" and shares an interview with Julie ...
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5 emotions which turn into Chronic fatigue.

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by tinacarroll27, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. tinacarroll27

    tinacarroll27 Senior Member

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    Just saw this on youtube!!! Got me angry!!!!!!! Dated 2016 so only recent. I am so angry I left a comment on the video and I am still angry!!!!

     
  2. AndyPR

    AndyPR Senior Member

    Careful, all that anger might turn into chronic fatigue.. ;)

    http://www.mickeltherapy.com/what-is-mickel-therapy/
    So it's magic then...

    http://www.mickeltherapy.com/medical-conditions/chronic-fatigue/
     
  3. tinacarroll27

    tinacarroll27 Senior Member

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    Lol!!:):):)
     
  4. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member

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    I was going to say: unbelievable. But no sadly it is all too believable that they peddle this cr@p!

    Just imagine when HIV or AIDS first came to light if this agenda was pushed to the exclusion of actual science?

    Snake oil by another name....
     
  5. Matthew Jones

    Matthew Jones Senior Member

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    Be sure to downvote the video on youtube.
     
  6. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    Only 5? I thought it was all of them. Or not expressing any of them. Or anything.
     
  7. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    We can also go to her youtube page and click on and down vote any other offensive videos, if so inclined. There's an impressive amount of psychobabble there! Fortunately almost no one seems to be watching most of it.
     
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  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    FFS: "In this episode you will learn some of the metaphysical (‘beyond physical’) reasons for what causes prostate cancer."

    If her bad karma hasn't given her all of these diseases yet for being an unscrupulous fraud, I think we can safely rule out the metaphysical as a culprit for any disease.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  9. belize44

    belize44 Senior Member

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    This makes me angry, too. I get so tired of people looking to make a profit off our suffering; even worse, there are those who are desperate and will fall for it.
     
  10. hellytheelephant

    hellytheelephant Senior Member

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    Hooray! - there is an easy answer to curing ME....oh- no wait.....:bang-head::bang-head::bang-head::bang-head::bang-head::bang-head:
     
  11. AndyPR

    AndyPR Senior Member

    At the very least this is "1 video which then has been turned into a number of emotions"..... ;)
     
  12. tinacarroll27

    tinacarroll27 Senior Member

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    I actually got so angry watching that video I needed to have rest!! Maybe they should re name the video "Watching rubbish like this can lead to fatigue"
     
  13. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Errrr...

    And if you like irony...

    Denialists are creepy creatures, but I can't imagine what this must've been like.

    If you read Wikipedia's page on AIDS denialism, it's full of people using the same techniques as Wessley and Chalder et al. Then as now, the IOM said "nope, it's real" (and in this case) "it's really caused by a virus" but people claimed psychogenic attributions, autoimmune attributions, oxidative stress attributions, sometimes with a sprinkling of outright accusations of fraud against those nutty people who thought HIV caused AIDS.

    I won't say that they drowned out the real science, but if you read the article, you'll see they did their best.

    -J
     
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  14. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member

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    .... and yet still it goes on......:bang-head:

    Is it just medicine that seems to carry on in a perpetual loop of denial, persecution and shaming of patients who in the end are shown to genuine biomed causes? Or does it just seem that way? Is there a reason why, as a profession, they seem particularly likely to have this kind of bias? I appreciate that there are a large number of great, diligent and brilliant docs and researchers out there, but their voices always seem to be drowned out, at least initially.

    My background is very technical - not medical. In my field you could spout all the theory you want but at the end of the day, if the work doesn't resolve / design out the issues then you need to start checking your assumptions and reconsidering pretty quickly. Then when you move on to the next project/job/issue you bring that experience with you.

    If you kept going through the same faulty reasoning loop you simply could never move forward.
     
  15. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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    Couldn't listen to it all but caught "Fibromyalgia is basically ME with pain" shows how little she knows about ME.
     
  16. Techs

    Techs

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    I have a slightly different take (after listening to the whole thing). I don't think they are frauds, exactly. And they seem genuinely empathetic. It's very plausible to me that their therapy might help certain people who are overwhelmed, depressed, repressed, exhausted, confused, etc. Their error, of course, is in conflating such conditions with ME/CFS/FM etc.

    The reason I listened to the whole thing is because they stressed early on that physical disease can manifest from the mishandling of our emotions -- a provocative, but not revolutionary, idea. They even conjectured that ME can progress to MS. I wanted to hear more about their theory of the mechanics behind this process. Perhaps they'd have some new insights? Unfortunately, this is precisely the area in which they are most superficial. This is where they're out too far over their skis, probably operating on mere hunches. They are much more comfortable defaulting to simpler themes such as the connection between emotions and fatigue.

    The challenge for us here, who are taken aback by their conclusions, is that there are yet no reliable delineations between many different manifestations of similar conditions and symptoms. Perhaps even some members of Phoenix Rising would find themselves "cured" with Mickel Therapy. Others are bedridden with bodies at war with lingering and chronic retroviral or neurological or cellular or transmitter malfunctions. Some will disagree, but I'll bet there are as many unique combinations of disease etiologies here as there are members. Which is why the whole damn thing is so hard to figure out. (AIDS, by contrast, is caused by a specific, named retrovirus, HIV.)

    For instance, while I don't believe stress causes this family of diseases, I do believe, for some, it can be part of the soup that triggered their illness. This is very different from implying (as the Mickel folk do) that the cure is to learn to handle stress differently. Even if I was totally to blame for blowing out my Camaro's engine by racing it without oil, it can't simply be fixed by filling it back up with oil and driving slower. Whatever insights some of these people may sometimes have, they seem to gloss over the fact that many of us are trying to function with severely impaired physical processes. (But then we're probably the one's who Mickel believes will take years and years of therapy to cure.)

    The root of their system seems to be that we have two types of emotions: primary (instant, spontaneous, passing) and secondary (the verbal stories we chronically tell ourselves about the primary emotions). The primary emotions are crucial to us, and they should help guide our actions. The secondary emotions are where we risk making ourselves sick. But what if we were to live for an entire year under a constant onslaught of survival-based primary emotions, as say in wartime? Recently, finally, PTSD has been recognized as physiological. But not everyone who goes to war gets PTSD. Not everyone exposed to viruses gets ME. Doesn't it seem like each person's recipe of factors leading to their physical debilitation was unique? So, then, wouldn't it follow that there may be many unique paths back to health? Certainly we know enough about the mind-body connection that we should be able to recognize the role our emotions can play in our path to better health.

    Still, these Mickels would be well advised to stop talking so glibly about ME, FM, MS, prostate cancer (!), etc, as if they all will eventually evaporate as we gradually improve the way we process our emotions.
     
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  17. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    :eek:

    This is worse than "Fibromyalgia is ME without pain. Maybe I should say worser :)rolleyes:) as both statements are not based on fact and equally ignorant.

    Edit. That should be ME is Fibromyalgia without the pain.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  18. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Very good metaphor, and I agree. Suppose some of us blew out our adrenals or reprogrammed ourselves somehow through emotional trauma. It's still a leap to conclude that talk therapy and more exercise are the solution.

    Yes. It's called "if I can't solve it, it doesn't exist" syndrome.

    Teaching showed me that there are personality... er, 'quirks'... that seem more prevalent in teachers. A need for control, a dislike of change, a frustration with the lack of order inherent within students themselves that seems chronic in nature. You guys all have met the archetype. Then there's a subset of weird and wild outside-the-box thinkers. Then there are a few 'failed' scientists or novelists. Rarely the twain shall meet.

    That's due to the nature of the profession, yeah? Hey: would you like to read from a prescripted set of directions to about 25 children several times every day in precisely the same way? Your profession is never going under, never going out of style (insert obligatory objection re: technology here) so it's secure. Does that sound good to you? If so, you may very well be a particular type of person.

    Now: how about if I told you that people will come to you looking for help? It will be your job to listen to their problems and offer solutions: you are a mechanic for the human body. They can't help themselves so they will need your knowledge, expertise, and kind bedside manner. Does that sound good to you? If so, you may well be a particular type of person.

    I don't mean to demonize either group -- just to point out that the aspects of getting to tell people what to do and to appear as the expert are something they have in common... and that this has certain implications.
     
  19. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    They wouldn't be the first to say so. Older texts say "atypical MS, which does sometimes progress to classical..." If you look over these reports it's clear that 'atypical MS' is in fact 'ME', and that's now listed as a synonym for the condition in several locations.

    The thing is 'progress'? Or is it just that a similar genetic background of susceptibility and/or internal mileau applies to each?
     
  20. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    I'm still not sure how they managed to conflate those conditions with cancer. Which suggests they have a much deeper problem - either insanity or an extremely predatory interest in exploiting the ill.

    But there is, unless ME/CFS is fatigue, and FM is pain, and IBS is indigestion, and prostate cancer is peeing lots. There's research and documents explaining what ME is, and even how it's different from FM, depression, anxiety, etc. There's lists of the tests and physical signs which are often abnormal, and will obviously differentiate these disease from emotions.

    There is reliable delineation. These fraudsters ignore it. If they really cared about patients, they would know these documents, tests, and treatments by heart. Instead they start with the "cure" they have been trained in, and bend reality to apply it to as many conditions as possible. The only possible motivation for this is their personal profit.
     
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