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4.30am waking, what to take?

Discussion in 'Sleep' started by maryb, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Anyone any advice on what I can take at 4.30am when I wake from my Zopiclone induced sleep, tossing and turning, its like a torture, sometimes I get up and then feel like death at 8am, go back to bed for an hr. Sometimes I can get back off to sleep but its usually not 'til about 6.30am. I've been tempted often to take another zop but resist.
     
  2. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl ME is not MUS

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    Hello Maryb,

    I have the same problem;however, what works for me is to sleep for an hour or two without taking a zopiclone and then when I wake.................usually by 2 am........ then take half a zop (3,5) which helps me sleep from about 3.30 am to 6. It all goes pear shaped though if I sleep till 4 am (very rarely) and then take a zop as I can then sleep from 5 am to 9 am. That is so much better though than the relentless drug-resistant heavy duty insomnia that lasted for decades. (I do also have to take a mixture of surmontil or baclofen to initiate sleep in the first place.) So I would suggest you just take the zop at 4 am as its effects wear off within three hours in my experience and sleep is so crucial.
     
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  3. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    My autonomic doc told me that, aside from sleep meds wearing off about that time, this is when the sympathetic nervous system starts to get active making us prone to waking.

    For myself, though I need a real drug to get me asleep initially, when I wake up in the early hours I can get back to sleep with a couple of the Hylands homeopathic, Calms Forte. It would never put me to sleep initially though. Might be worth a try.

    Sushi
     
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  4. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Some supplements that can help with sleep:
    Niacin - this activates the GABA receptors in the brain. I've taken no-flush niacin and niacinamide, and these did nothing for me, but when I started taking regular niacin, which causes a flush, it noticeably helped my sleep. So I take 250 mg. after dinner, and then when I wake up in the middle of the night I take 125 mg. I was taking it in the morning but found that it was making me tired then. I was very surprised, after all my years of reading about sleep, and only learned about the sleep benefits of niacin in the last 6 months or so.

    Inositol is another form of niacin which is also very effective for sleep. Unfortunately, it can also cause detoxing. The first night I took it (1000 mg.) I felt drugged most of the next day - I thought it was too strong and it took 3 days for me to realize that it was causing a detox reaction. I react very strongly to almost everything that potentially can cause detoxing so I think most people can take inositol without a problem.

    And then there's l-theanine which helps the brain produce GABA, it crosses the blood-brain barrier. Straight GABA does not cross the BB barrier, but I was just reading about GABA receptors elsewhere in the body so GABA could be somewhat effective.

    I read that Zoplicone can lead to dependence unfortunately. I've been taking 1 mg. of lorazepam in the middle of the night (in addition to l-theanine and niacin) for the several years and only recently discovered that I'd best get off of it. It was the article about benzo use increasing the risk of Alzheimer's. I cut my dose in half about 8 days ago and am doing okay, maybe a little extra edgy but overall not bad, but I have found that niacin is very good for calming me if I need it, and I just tolerate the flushing.

    And of course there's melatonin. I take that before bed plus more in the middle of the night. But the niacin has increased the effectiveness of everything else I take.

    Mary
     
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  5. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    This might be totally bunk but these tracks have helped me immeasurably with anxiety over the past few months. And they have a money back guarantee...maybe worth a try before upping the meds?

    http://www.project-meditation.org/pm/lifeflow-sleep-easy-solution/

    On the complete other end of the spectrum, what about low dose Seroquel instead? It puts many people out for the whole night...and it may lower cortisol too. At low doses, it works like an antihistamine.
     
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  6. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

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    Embrace getting up at 4:30 am! Do it often enough and you'll start falling asleep earlier. Jackkruse.com would claim sleeping when its dark and avoiding nightime blue light would go a long way to "curing" CFS.
     
  7. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

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    The reason I say this is my sister, a women I share a great deal of genetic "defects" with, hasn't been to a physician in over 44 years. Her secret: she goes to sleep around seven pm a wakes up at around 4 am. She hasn't seen a large dose of blue light after dusk since NIXON WAS PRESIDENT! I have a much "healthier" lifestyle than her, but she doesn't need to frequent a CFS website . Kruse exclaimed that she was his new "hero"
     
  8. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    @maryb I've posted this a few times (and apologize if it is sounding redundant to anyone!) but I recently discovered Taurine which is an amino acid. It is taken for many different purposes but for me it is incredibly calming and sedating and helps me sleep. You might want to try it just to see if it helps.
     
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  9. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Thank you all for your replies, plenty for me to think about.
    @Countrygirl
    I will give that a try, I suppose I'm just used to taking the zop and clunk.....zzzzzzzzzzz!! If I could fall off to sleep naturally that would be a good start and help me make the decision about coming off zop completely.
    @Sushi
    which drug do you take initially? I tried calms forte, it gave me a massive headache, I know people swear by it though.
    @Ema
    I think it is probably very soothing for you, but I can't stand any noise, and I would also drag the player, earphones off the chest onto the floor, be scrabbling about in the dark, switch the lights on.......and cause mayhem at 4.30am:) My co-ordination seems to go at bedtime, I usually drop my zop pill, spill my water. Worse is dropping my natto back into the tub after putting it in my mouth, then its find the contaminated one. Time for a pill box.
    @Mary
    Yes that article worried me too, my memeory is shot at already:(
    I could try the nicacin I have some in also the l-theanine. I need to choose some days where I can cope with any side effects.
    @shah78
    I'm sure going to bed at 7pm and getting up at 4am is a great lifestyle, unfortunately I couldn't do that, my husband is dragged to bed at 10pm to watch the news and then lights off, 7pm... no chance. As it is 4.30am is still the middle of the night for me and getting up just wrecks my day.
    I've never been a morning person anyway, its my body clock. I worked in a hunting stables when I was young, I would stand on top of the muck heap!! at 6.am looking at the sun beginning to come up, cold frosty morning, the countryside glistening in the cold morning light, beautiful, but I'd still rather have chosen my bed:)
    @Gingergrrl
    thanks, its something I also have in (in my bulging 4 supplement cupboards) I will try it. When do you take it?
     
  10. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    One more thing - have you had your cortisol levels tested? The best test is the Adrenal Stress Index Test which uses saliva samples taken 4 times during the day/evening. High nighttime cortisol can cause severe insomnia which hardly anything will touch until cortisol levels are brought down. This happened to me. Seriphos (phosphorylated serine) is non-prescription and is extremely effective in normalizing cortisol levels. My middle of the night sleep has gotten worse since I cut the lorazepam dose in half, so I increased my Seriphos - took 4 yesterday - and was only awake for half an hour in the middle of the night.

    Seriphos should be taken in the morning due to circadian rhythms, though it doesn't cause drowsiness. It's one of the best products out there and I think every doctor should check cortisol levels before prescribing sleep meds.

    Mary
     
  11. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    This is also the time when your blood sugar can run low, so try eating some carbs and see if you can get back to sleep.
     
  12. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Thanks @Mary - I did have them done a while ago, probably time to re-test.

    @adreno - I'm very sad, if I ate I would have to get up to clean my teeth:( one of my doctors did say to eat a protein snack before bed in order to keep my blood sugar up so I guess what you're saying is the same thing.
     
  13. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    This is true for me--a protein snack always helps even if it does mean an extra date with the toothbrush.

    Sushi
     
  14. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    little glass of water, toothbrush and small spit bowl - no need to get up then.
     

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