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23andme: TMG for BHMT +/+ ? (and plenty of other +/-)... any advice?

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by MarkO, Aug 7, 2014.

  1. MarkO

    MarkO

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    Hi, this is my first post, hopefully some of you knowledgeable people out there can help!

    I've been suffering from extreme exhaustion for the last 18 months following a nasty virus which hit at a particularly busy/stressful time, and it knocked me out completely. I've had ups and downs since, but never returned to more than 50% energy levels and the medical profession have basically said "it's ME/CFS - go home till it gets better" !

    A couple of months ago I started on a version of Rich/Freddd's methylation programme, starting at low doses and gradually working up. I've also got back results from 23andme (see below) and saliva cortisol test (morning cortisol is low, just outside normal range) plus all the usual bloods (all within normal range). The Genetic Genie Methylation Profile shows:

    +/+ for:
    BHMT-02
    BHMT-08

    +/- for:
    COMT V158M
    COMT H62H
    VDR Bsm
    VDR Taq
    MTHFR C677T
    MTHFR 03 P39P
    MTHFR A1298C
    MTRR A66G
    AHCY-01
    AHCY-19

    So I'm wondering if I should be taking anything for the BHMT +/+? I've seen suggestions of TMG but wondered if anyone had any experience of this? Also will TMG create more methyl groups, and is this a good thing given the various +/- above? I did wonder if I should be taking hydroxy-B12 rather than methyl-B12 if I introduce TMG?

    I'm currently taking:
    • Methyl-B12 (sublingual 500mg jarrow formulas) - started on 1,000mg but after the first week it was too exhausting so had to drop the dose. This still makes makes me more tired than before I started taking it, but I've read that if my body doesn't need it there will be no reaction, so maybe this is a good sign?
    • Methylfolate (400ug solgar metafolin)
    • Adenosyl-B12 (1,000mg metabolics capsule)
    • Various vitamins including: multivitamin, C, D, zinc, magnesium, potassium, fish oil.
    Should I be doing anything else at this stage? Any thoughts much appreciated! (@Freddd , @Valentijn , @caledonia )

    Cheers,
    Mark

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  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Mark,

    Many of us found Jarrow to be ineffective as of about 2 years ago and just did not give the results it used to. Most especially it didn't work on the CNS. Enzymatic Therapy works much better. Usually MeCbl is energizing when it is working. Anabol Naturals Dibencoplex (AdoCbl) seems to be the most active. Sublingual use can absorb 25 times as much of dose as swallowing it when allowed to remain for 2 hours.
  3. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Hi @MarkO ,
    I agree with Freddd, try switching to the effective forms that he has mentioned. Another option is liquid sublinguals which work well for me. Either Douglas Labs methylcobalamin or Holistic Health hydroxy, methyl or adenosylcobalamin.

    However, you have some touchy COMT genes so you may want to be cautious with methylcobalamin and methylfolate. Hydroxy and adenosyl might be a better choice. Once you get an effective B12 on board, you might find that amount of methylfolate is too much.

    For BHMT try sunflower lecithin instead, which will convert to TMG. Again, that contains methyl groups, so take it easy.

    Have some nicotinic form of niacin on hand before making these changes, in case things get cranking too fast and you're getting panic attacks, etc.

    For the adrenals you may need to also add some sodium, especially in the morning, or if you're craving salty foods.

    What multi are you taking? Some are better than others.

    Please read "Start Low and Go Slow" and "Roadblocks to Successful Methylation Treatment" linked in my signature for more info and details about the things I mentioned.
  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Amersfoort, Netherlands
  5. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    @MarkO ,

    Looking at your entire chart, I would guess that your need for methylB12 will not be nearly as great as some peoples, but that your need for methylfolate will be much greater. Take Freddd's and Caledonia's advice, but consider this, too: you may end up needing 3x-5x or more methylfolate than you're currently taking.

    And I have some of those SNPs that should make me sensitive to methyl groups, but I'm not. It's so complex, I think we just have to try. I use methylfolate, methylcobalamin (B12), and I have used TMG, 1000 mg, without problem. Did it help? I don't know - I was told to start so many things at once that I couldn't tell what was causing what. I'm going back and adding in one thing at a time now.

    I think the overall concensus is that the TMG (or sunflower lecithin) can wait until you get the folate/B12 stuff stabilized. And the real reason to use the TMG is if your homocysteine is still high once you get the folate/B12 stuff going. Otherwise, I'd make it low priority.

    Best of luck with what you try,

    Critterina
  6. MarkO

    MarkO

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    Many thanks!

    @Freddd - I'll check out those more active forms

    @caledonia, @Valentijn , @Critterina - v interesting. I'm still trying to figure out the impact of my COMT genes, but my understanding so far is:
    COMT +/+ already have excess methyl groups in the system, so hydroxy-B12 might be a better choice, and
    COMT -/- may have insufficient methyl groups, so methyl-B12 may be better.
    I'm COMT +/- which sits in the middle and suggests I could get some benefit from reducing methyl donors? However I also have VDR +/- to consider, per HeartFixer: "(+/-) for VDR Taq defect have lower Vitamin D levels, make less dopamine, and will need and tolerate dopamine precursor substances and methyl donors" - so the conclusion seems that I need both more and less methyl?? V confusing!

    Is there a specific gene/protein that's responsible for converting hydroxy-B12 to methyl-B12?

    Hopefully BHMT does have a mild impact as you say, although I see that Dr Yasko in her forums seems to recommend 10mg TMG to 'kick start' this part of the cycle. Also I see that in Rich's simplified methylation protocol he suggests Lecithin which looks like a precursor to TMG? If the long-way round the methylation cycle isn't working too well, perhaps this might be something useful to include in the meantime to get the cycle going?

    Much appreciated,
    Mark
  7. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Heartfixer is about as clear as mud on this issue. I like Yasko's nifty COMT/VDR chart on her Simplified Roadmap page. (about halfway down the page). http://www.scribd.com/doc/132017201/Dr-Amy-s-Simplified-Road-Map-to-Health

    That all being said, these genes are potentials, depending on whether they're expressed or not, so take the recommendations as a starting place, and adjust from there as necessary.

    For example, according to the chart, I'm supposed to be able to take hydroxy, but when I tried it, I got an adverse reaction. So I take methyl and adenosylcobalamin.

    I have several BHMTs. Lecithin was ok at first, but after a few weeks, even a tiny amount of lecithin was too overstimulating, so I discontinued.

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