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23andMe results - My Story of Depression and Recovery

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by taroki, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. taroki

    taroki Senior Member

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    Ontario, Canada
    Throughout life I have always wondered what was wrong with me. I never did fit in with any crowd as I was socially awkward. I grew up not having very many friends. I was always a loner, I have been called everything from "weird" to "lazy" to "useless". It didn't help that I have emotionally abusive Asian parents, and a mother with narcissistic personality disorder. Because of this I had very low self esteem and sensitive to criticism. No matter how hard I try, I was never good enough for my parents (or anyone else for that matter). We are currently not on speaking terms.

    For as long as I can remember, since I was a child I was always skinny with ADHD, Anxiety, Depression, and Asperger's symptoms. I thought it was just bad genes and there was nothing I can do about it. I would eat very slow, fall asleep on the chair next to me during dinner. I have always avoided hard to digest foods (any meat that isn't soft or doesn't have fat) and preferred to eat soft foods like noodles, soup.

    Fast forward to high school I started noticing I felt too lazy to walk between classes. I would stay up late to do homework as I could only focus and get assignments done starting 11pm-2am. Later I learned the word procrastination and boy did I procrastinate a lot.

    During university I had much of the same problems, only the chronic fatigue started settling in. I could not figure out why all the other students can walk so far without getting tired. I thought it was because I just wasn't used to exercising. Through a lot of hard work I was finally able to graduate (took me 6 years to graduate from a 3 year program), but not before I was exposed to mold and pesticide in an old house I lived in during my time in university. I then had a recurring nightmare for a while after that and the dream was about needing one more course to graduate.

    While I was in university, I slipped and fell on ice one day while catching the bus. My butt hurt but I didn't go to hospital thinking I would be ok. I couldn't be more wrong as years later I found out my S.I. joints were now unstable and likely contributed to my back injury at my first job after graduation (I will need more Platelet Rich Plasma Injections later on). After losing my first real job, I was very stressed and that was when I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia. The doctor prescribed me Paxil which gave me major acid reflux, after which I became very depressed over the next 5 years. During this time I barely left my home, was very lonely but did not want to talk to anyone, spent all my time in front of the computer on eBay, etc.

    Later on in 2009, I randomly applied to a local job and was happy to be starting a new job. Once again, I was so anxious that I could not sleep the day before the first day of work. I did well enough but about a year later my arms were slowly hurting badly, I knew I wouldn't last much longer but I kept going until they got so bad it was like burning pain as if they were on fire! Eventually I lost that job again due to repetitive strain injury/fibromyalgia.

    This time since I was on workplace disability, I was eventually referred to a local doctor, a pain specialist who has helped many people with fibromyalgia. It was then that I started having a different outlook on things. I learned that in order to recover, we need to find the cause of the illness. Treat the cause, not the symptoms. There was an underlying issue causing my fibromyalgia. I just had to find out what that was.

    My symptoms are many. I am now 36 years old (female) and have been diagnosed with the following :

    - Fibromyalgia
    - ADHD
    - Asperger's Syndrome with Learning Disability
    - Bipolar Disorder
    - insomnia (difficultly falling asleep, night time awakenings, messed up circadian rhythm, non-refreshing sleep, sleep paralysis)
    - mercury & pesticide poisoning
    - back pain
    - bilateral sacroiliac joint problems
    - TMJ/temporomandibular joint pain syndrome
    - overactive bladder
    - depression, mood issues, irritability, anxiety, nervousness, shyness
    - inability to concentrate, short term memory loss, auditory processing problem
    - chronic fatigue syndrome, muscle weakness, muscle atrophy, heavy legs
    - repetitive strain injuries, loss of balance
    - Gastrointestinal and digestive issues/acid reflux/GERD
    - dry eyes and constant dry mouth, tonsil stones, dehydrated despite adequate fluid intake
    - IBS/irritable bowel syndrome, frequent urination, bladder prolapse
    - electromagnetic hypersensitivity
    - sensitive hearing/taste/smell, hearing high pitch sounds
    - chronic androgen insufficiency, osteopenia, proteinura/protein in the urine
    - food allergies, skin rashes, frequent headaches
    - repeated infections (viral/fungal/bacterial/candida)
    - hypothyroidism, cold hands and feet/extremities
    - loss of libido, slow healing, sleep apnea
    - heart palpitations, trouble breathing
    - poor driving/sense of direction
    - crawling sensations especially during parasite detox, brain fog, procrastination



    I have been doing a lot of detox lately and it certainly helped my symptoms. My brain fog, fatigue, bipolar, sleep, mood, anxiety, depression, procrastination, mental clarity, expressing thoughts, constipation, parasite symptoms, have all improved. The fibromyalgia, sensitive hearing, and focus/concentration issue has never improved however.

    Unfortunately due to methylation problems I am always stuck and can't go further. I then realized I may have a MTHFR gene defect which would mean I need to take care of my methylation pathways first before doing any further detox. I found that every detox, other than gut cleanse products, makes me more bloated. Some products that worked well for me were Quicksilver IMD in removing mercury/heavy metals from the gut, Zeolite liquid for removing mold, Enterosgel for removing food poisoning and toxins in gut/body, Bentonite Clay for removing yeast in body. Thanks to a doctor in Vietnam, I recently did a parasite cleanse with lots of drugs not available here in North America (Triclabendazole, Ivermectin, Praziquantel). He told me I most likely have Lyme Disease.

    Lately I am very bloated. Can't even eat anything without having yeast symptoms flare up. I had gluten-free cereal this morning and right afterwards had a crash (feeling very tired, poor circulation, depressed).

    I look very skinny, with a belly sticking out as if I was 5 months pregnant. I think I look similar to those poor children in Africa.

    Hopefully someone can help interpret my 23andMe results? I ran it through Livewello also. What supplements should I be taking and what dosage? Any MTHFR specialized doctors in Toronto, Canada?

    [​IMG]


    During my 2009 job, I became friends with a coworker and it was through her that I met my boyfriend. He is now 25 years old and although he is physically healthy and fit, mentally he wasn't.

    His symptoms include :

    - has major distrust in people (even me! always snooping around my phone and computer!), very moody, anger issues, intrusive thoughts, always accusing me of things
    - paranoid/delusional/unreasonable thoughts (thinks i am seeing other men)
    - borderline personality disorder (fear of abandonment), post-traumatic stress disorder
    - poor memory, impulsive, impatient
    - his negative thoughts would previously cause bad vivid dreams. After breaking up with his last girlfriend two years ago, he would have very disturbing dreams, thrashing around with raised body temperature in the middle of sleep.
    - when he is stressed he scratches a lot, and always has dry skin falling everywhere he goes
    - has eczema, sensitive skin, grinding teeth, ringing in ears, sleep paralysis
    - food intolerances causing diarrhea, food allergies
    - had gout, procrastination, brain fog, gallbladder clogged up but improved with detox


    His symptoms above improved after taking the anti-parasite medication Abendazole for 2 weeks. So we know he also has a lot of parasites. He is also now taking Triclabendazole, Ivermectin, Praziquantel, etc and we also think he has Lyme Disease as his "negative thoughts" and itchiness are still there.

    What supplements should he be taking? What do having all 3 BHMT homozygous mutations mean? Here are his 23andMe results below :

    [​IMG]

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
    Beyond likes this.
  2. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    taroki,
    The BHMT is a secondary pathway for recycling homocysteine to methionine. The primary pathway in your boyfriend's methyl cycle only has one hetero causing a slowdown, that is the MTRR A66G. He might benefit from a little more B12 (methylB12 preferred), but as these are duplicate pathways, not really a worry.

    His MTHFR A1298C is hetero, too. Since he has these emotional issues, it's possible his biopterin cycle isn't working as well as it might. Methylfolate may be able to help that. Or if he is low on the specific amino acids feeding that cycle (you'd have to test), that might help too.

    For your belly issues, have you tried probiotics or probiotics plus enzymes? I like the brand American Health probiotic plus enzymes. Also, have you tried a low histamine diet? I would also say that a good lab workup is in order, including serum amino acids. Then you might be able to figure out what's best for you. Just from your SNPs, I would say low doses of methylfolate, methylcobalamin, and TMG, and maybe an active multi-B like Thorne's Basic Bs, but without lab work or knowing more symptoms, or what you're already taking, those are just guesses. ( I had belly bloat from taking NAC, not knowing I was histamine intolerant.)
    S.A. and Valentijn like this.
  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    @taroki
    Since some of your symptoms started in early childhood, your increased symptoms now might be a worsening of a genetic condition, rather than something like ME/CFS which is typically thought to be acquired.

    Is anything listed as being a carrier or having the disease at https://www.23andme.com/you/health/carrier/ ?

    There's also a download from http://sourceforge.net/projects/analyzemygenes/ which you can run to see what your very rare alleles are. Anything starting with an "i" number is more likely to be pathogenic, since that is how 23andMe hides that information. Instructions for using the program are at http://sourceforge.net/p/analyzemygenes/wiki/Home/ .
  4. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi @taroki ;

    I can relate to your story, it's painfully familiar.

    Would you believe that many, many of your, and your boyfriend's symptoms are that of B12 deficiency?
    It seems uncanny, but I think we are often attracted to others with similar conditions because we have developed a tolerance to quirkiness.

    Both you and your boyfriend have snps that may indicate B12 deficiency in addition to the MTRR. TCN2 may indicate that there is difficulty with B12 transport to the cells and into the spine. GIF means there is a shortage of Intrinsic Factor, so there is difficulty with B12 binding.

    Even though you are both heterogenous for these snps, they can cause much suffering, as you have written. The GIF mutation is associated with Pernicious Anemia, an autoimmune type of B12 deficiency. I wonder if some relative may have this.

    There also may be some autoimmune tendencies in both of you, especially your boyfriend.

    I believe it would be a good idea to find out food sensitivities, and avoid fortified, enriched foods. Especially avoid folic acid, because it can cause alot of irritability. ( I'm thinking of your boyfriend's behavior.) Your boyfriend may also need extra potassium, it may help with gout and irritability.

    Personally, I would start with B12, and wait before beginning folate. I'm not sure if folate will be needed. You may want to test to see if it is elevated in the blood, serum or red blood cells. If so, then wait to bring it down before considering supplementation.

    Stomach acid may be low. There are different ways to treat this. Some people are fine with the addition of lemon juice, vinegars, and naturally fermented foods to the diet. With others, a B -complex helps.

    You have a DAO mutation which may require a reasonable amount (not too much) of B6 (or P5P), vitamin C, and copper. Nuts and seeds are a good source of copper.

    My best to you...
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
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  5. taroki

    taroki Senior Member

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    Ontario, Canada
    Thanks for your messages and support everyone!

    @Critterina
    Thanks I will have my boyfriend try more Methyl B12. I had him try Transdermoil B12 and he said it didn't do anything for him : http://transdermoil.com/products/transdermoil-red

    I just read that methylfolate is very helpful for MTHFR people and that it helps with anger and depression. Maybe this is what my boyfriend is missing. I will give some to him to try. Is there a website that lists the usual adult dosage for these MTHFR supplements? Or just use trial and error based on how we feel?

    Does he need lithium orotate as well? I have some here at home and it didn't seem to do much for me. From this article it says BHMT people require it?
    http://chronicdiseasetalk.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/mthfr-and-comt/

    I am taking probiotics for my stomach issues. As well as low sugar diet, DGL, but still doesn't seem to help. Waiting for my order of Xymogen's Opticleanse GHI which cleaned my liver/gut well last time. I am thinking methylation issues are the reason why my gut keeps clogging up with detox (same with my boyfriend). Also doing daily enemas which do help a bit.

    I will pick up TMG tomorrow. Thanks for the tip!

    I haven't thought of histamine intolerance. Will look into that!


    @Valentijn
    I checked my Inherited Conditions on 23andMe just now. I have Hemochromatosis (HFE-related) listed as "Variant Present" and my boyfriend has Beta Thalassemia listed as "Variant Present". Does this mean anything?

    Thanks for the tip on using analyzemygenes. What are rare alleles? Haven't heard of that before.


    @Crux
    Do both my boyfriend and I have very bad genes? I guess mine are worse than his? What does the average person's look like? Is there anyone out there with perfect genes meaning zero mutations? :)

    So for both me and my boyfriend we need Methyl B12 and not the other types of B12? Which one of us needs more B12?

    That's so cool that you mentioned my mutation associated with Pernicious Anemia and that a relative of mine might have it. My mother has Anemia ... maybe that is why she has major mood issues. My father has ADHD/Asperger symptoms, as do his family members.

    Which autoimmune tendencies do you mean? Can you clarify?

    Regarding food sensitivities and irritability. He says he does not notice additional irritability with foods high in folic acid, or improvements with potassium. I do notice he barely eats vegetables and fruits, and prefers lots of meat. As for me, I would eat easy to digest foods and carbs when younger, then in my teens and early twenties I would crave meat. I guess this was when my body wanted more B12? Afterwards I liked eating veggies. Now I like to eat healthy foods, and sugar free foods. I guess my bf likes meat because of the protein and B12 (he is muscular and exercises daily). I also notice I can tolerate oily foods more than my boyfriend and his mother. Maybe it's because I grew up eating chinese food which is sometimes very oily. Oh, and my face and my sister's face is very oily. While my bf's is quite dry.

    Right now my stomach cannot tolerate anything sugary or even slightly acidic/peppery/spicy. Lemon juice, vinegars, orange juice, none of those are good for me right now. :-(

    So you would recommend P5P as well? How much should I take?

    I do actually notice an improvement with taking high dose B12 and Vit C. When I did Myer's IV treatments I noticed feeling so calm, happy, energetic, and much better sleep afterwards. If I don't take B12, I notice I have "racing thoughts" and "rapid speech". A few months ago when I wasn't taking any B12 at all while doing detox, I ended up being hypomanic everyday!

    Do I need BH4 by the way? I keep reading about that.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
  6. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Hemochromatosis means that your body tries to store too much iron. You should probably avoid any supplements containing iron, and it would be a good idea to talk about it with your doctor. It can cause damage to the liver, as well as liver cancer, if left untreated, depending on which mutation you have. If you click on the link from 23andMe, it should give you more info about which mutation you have, and what it means.

    Your boyfriend also needs to talk to his doctor. Having even one copy of the bad SNP for beta thalassemia can cause symptoms, which might account for some of his problems.
    Each SNP (a single point on a gene) basically has two alleles, which sometimes result in different functioning of the gene based on which allele you have. Sometimes the vast majority of the population has the same allele for an SNP, and only a tiny fraction has a different version. Sometimes this is due to the rare allele being pathogenic.

    Analyzemygenes is designed to list your SNPs for which you have an allele which is present less than 1% of the time. This might bring up a couple pathogenic mutations, and it also brings up other very rare SNPs which might (or might not) help to shed light on your health problems. It can also be used to try to find similarities in patients who probably have the same disease.
  7. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    LOL, I don't believe you and your boyfriend have very bad genes. I wouldn't say that to parents either...I made that mistake a long time ago. I think both of you have some similarities that may indicate why you have some health conditions. I'm not sure what the average person's look like, I'm really new to this, and inexperienced. I doubt there is anyone without some mutations. I believe it's really important to look at symptoms and other tests as well.

    It's hard to tell which B12 one may find more effective, that's where experimentation comes in. If you and your boyfriend have good results from taking the methyl B12, that's good because it's easier to find and less expensive.
    You'll also need to experiment to find your appropriate dosage.

    Mutations in the GIF gene are associated with intrinsic factor deficiency and Pernicious Anemia, but yesterday I looked up, or tried, the rs558660 number that livewello and mthfrsupport.com tag as problematic, and found only very little about it. snpedia doesn't include it, so now I feel that, of course, 'more research needs to be done.' There is a member here with a double mutation who also has pernicious anemia, so, I believe it's one to watch. One of your parents may have the GIF gene snp, but it may not cause PA, but they could be low in intrinsic factor, then be low in B12. Symptom wise, I suspect both parents are having trouble absorbing and metabolizing B12.



    I noticed that you have an HLA-DRB1, rs 660895 (GG). This is associated with rheumatoid arthritis, and other autoimmune conditions.

    I noticed that your boyfriend has one copy of the rs 66095, and one copy of the CTLA4. CTLA4 mutations are also associated with autoimmunity. Thyroid, RA, etc.

    Regarding diet and food sensivities. it looks like both of you are prone to allergies. ( HLA snps)

    [/quote]Right now my stomach cannot tolerate anything sugary or even slightly acidic/peppery/spicy. Lemon juice, vinegars, orange juice, none of those are good for me right now. :-([/quote]

    :-(

    [/quote]So you would recommend P5P as well? How much should I take?[/quote]

    Many folks here prefer P5P, the active form of B6. I believe the dosage is critical, because too much can damage nerves. The tablets I've seen are too high, imo, so I would recommend a low starting dose of 5-10 mg. daily. Some B-comlexes have p5p, so look around here at PR to find recommendations.


    [/quote]I do actually notice an improvement with taking high dose B12 and Vit C. When I did Myer's IV treatments I noticed feeling so calm, happy, energetic, and much better sleep afterwards. If I don't take B12, I notice I have "racing thoughts" and "rapid speech". A few months ago when I wasn't taking any B12 at all while doing detox, I ended up being hypomanic everyday![/quote]

    That's great that you respond to the B12 and Vit C. The Myer's IV treatments have those ingredients, along with other B's, and magnesium.

    [/quote]Do I need BH4 by the way? I keep reading about that.[/quote]

    Some folks here really respond to BH4, I haven't tried it, and it's expensive. I think if you can get your methylation process going well with the proper amount of B's, it should bring up BH4. If you both find that you need methylfolate, it will aid the production. I'm not sure if you both will need it. The MTHFR A1298C snp + -, is inconclusive. Some people with it may have normal folate levels, and some have been elevated. So, again, you'll need to carefully test yourself.


    http://snpedia.com/index.php/CTLA4

    http://snpedia.com/index.php/Rs660895
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  8. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi taroki;
    You also have a single mutation for IFIH1, rs 1990760, risk allele T. This could also cause potential for autoimmunity.
    This doesn't mean you're gonna get it.:)

    http://snpedia.com/index.php/Rs1990760
  9. taroki

    taroki Senior Member

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    Ontario, Canada
    Woohoo! I'm so happy!

    I tried the Methyl B12 plus 5-MTHF plus TMG and I am noticing results!

    With the 5-MTHF I find I am detoxing better (skin more moist) and if I go over 1000mcg I get migraine that lasts the entire day (also when I took 2000mcg I had major migraine and random red bumps on my skin, and skin super moist).

    With the TMG I noticed my fibromyalgia improved instantly! Within minutes my fibro subsided and I could start feeling the pain of my injured body parts! (most of which is toxin build up in my shoulders/shoulder blades/lower back/S.I. joints)

    Anything else i missed?


    @Valentijn
    Is that why I need TMG? Because my body does not process iron properly? Is that why I had the fainting episodes as a child? Is this why I currently have bloating and shoulder blade pain due to clogged up liver?

    My boyfriend hates seeing doctors. Even the one time I dragged him to see my naturopathic doctor he complained about it afterwards saying he would never go back. What symptoms would "beta thalassemia" cause him? And what tests would need to be performed?


    @Crux
    Thanks for the heads up regarding the dosage on P5P! I have purchased a B-complex which includes 10mg of P5P.
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  10. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I'm not sure if TMG helps with iron issues at all. The usual treatment for excess iron is blood-letting, and sometimes chelation.
    He probably has the "minor" form, or is just a carrier (his 23andMe results should clarify that), hence probably doesn't need transfusions on a regular basis. But basically it can cause anemia and related symptoms, as well as iron-overload. The anemia might make him feel pretty worn out, and the iron-overload can be dangerous, hence it's something that should get monitored periodically, even if no treatment is needed.

    For diagnosis, the main thing is a genetic test. So he has it. The other monitoring would likely be done with pretty basic blood tests, mostly checking for iron levels in a variety of manners.
  11. Kimsie

    Kimsie

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    Wow! That's really helpful. We have two children on each of those with doubles and that's not counting our son with schizophrenia, who insists that the B12 shots work better for him than the pills. Our daughter has doubles on two of them, plus a single on the TCN1. I guess we can assume that the son with schizophrenia has doubles, too. (he was tested on the yasko panel and not 23andme so we don't know for sure.)
  12. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi @Kimsie ;

    I must say that I couldn't think of a more admirable person than a parent who cares for her children as you!

    With the TCN2 snps, it's confusing to find that the ones tagged as risk by some companies, such as livewello and mthfrsupport.com, don't comply with some research. So, it may be a good idea to investigate more into this.

    I believe it's an important snp to consider because so many of us have B12 deficiency symptoms, but normal to high levels in the serum.

    It's great that your son is responding!
  13. Kimsie

    Kimsie

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    Thank you, I understand that there isn't much information about these mutations. I don't think there has been much research done, but it is good to be aware of what the mutation may affect. My other son who has gut dysbiosis that creates histamine does better with the injections than with the pills, too. With him I can tell just by listening to his voice and looking at his facial expressions when something or some combination is working because his voice and facial expressions become "flat" when he is being affected.
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  14. taroki

    taroki Senior Member

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    Ah, so both of us can really benefit from Methyl B12, Methylfolate, and TMG then correct? Both of us have an iron overload problem?

    So far I had him try Methyl B12 (2000mcg) and 5-MTHF (1000mcg). I think he might have crashed as his "negative thoughts" symptoms got worse. So I'll have him try lower dosages.

    I guess I'm lucky to have a boyfriend who doesn't mind trying all these supplements every day. :)
  15. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Both of you may have iron issues for different reasons. Both of you need to see a doctor about it.
  16. S.A.

    S.A.

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    Those higher levels of B 12 and methylfolate are probably important for both of you but it's very, very important to start slow and low. Read through some of the discussions on this forum about start up symptoms to B 12 and methylfolate to get a better understanding. It's best to build up B 12 first for as long as a month or two. Then add in a very tiny amount of folate. You can increase the dosage slowly, in small increments, over several weeks to get best results.

    And yes its great that your boyfriend is open to trying these supplements!
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