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23andme & Chronic insomnia and family history of psychiatric/CNS disorders

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211
H
Yeah, it sheds, but seems to grow back, since I don't really have bald spots, maybe a little thinner.

I think hormone dysfunction is leading to early anagen cycles. However this could also be an effect of DHT.

What I notice is that my scalp feels intensly itchy like a mysquito just bit it. When i pull my hair in that area, hairs come out. Some times it comes in waves, like a bunch of areas, and sometimes it's just one spot.
yeah, my hairloss started like that. That itchy thing, is mast cell degranulation happening. Androgen receptor in hair is activated by dht which cause a rise in il-6 and an inflammation cascade which drives pgd2 high. Your hair is just shedding for the moment but in time it will disappear.

I bet if you drive igf-1 a little down that stops. Igf1 stimulates production of 5a reductase. That will increase dht but decrease test. How is your testosterone and estradiol?
 
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I'm not sure about this theory. 80 is far from hypoglycemic. Also, my IGF-1 is middle-high normal, and my DHT is normal/high.


5α-Reductase inhibitors alter steroid metabolism and may contribute to insulin resistance, diabetes, metabolic syndrome and vascular disease: a medical hypothesis
http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/hmbci.2014.20.issue-3/hmbci-2014-0025/hmbci-2014-0025.xml?format=INT

Also, IGF-1 stimulates 5aR which metabolises Test into DHT and DHT lowers IGF-1 production. It's a negative feedback loop and finasteride wrecks it. Unfortunately for us, finasteride acts on much more than 5areductase II, name 3bhsd, 5arI, 5arIII, and something else I can't remember.

Something got broken with all those inhibitions and I think part of the problem,for some people, is related to insulin sensitivity. As some do fasts and then recover or get much better...Some eat almost 200gr a day of spinach and recover...spinach is high in oxalic acid, which is used in glycogenesis and glucogenesis, and later to create ATP on the krebs cycle. This is what got me thinking...
 
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Functional hypoglycemia may be subclinical, meaning that symptoms are subtle, episodic, and difficult to diagnose. Patients may have a low but acceptable blood sugar level that does not drop until the last hours of a prolonged test. Glucose tolerance tests often miss the lowest blood sugar levels that had triggered acute symptoms.

http://www.lifeextensionvitamins.com/hypoglycemia.html#sthash.jzxiRScB.dpuf

I asked my sister to get me a glucose machine at her pharmacy...
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
Functional hypoglycemia may be subclinical, meaning that symptoms are subtle, episodic, and difficult to diagnose. Patients may have a low but acceptable blood sugar level that does not drop until the last hours of a prolonged test. Glucose tolerance tests often miss the lowest blood sugar levels that had triggered acute symptoms.

http://www.lifeextensionvitamins.com/hypoglycemia.html#sthash.jzxiRScB.dpuf

I asked my sister to get me a glucose machine at her pharmacy...


This is one path I was following for a while, but I did so many blood sugar tests that were normal, along with my normal to high fasting blood sugar, I had to rule it out.
 
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I started theorizing another way around and kept the functional hypoglycemia aside. Plus I can't go any further in it withouth further testing.

What I think is happening (mind you I am constantly changing this theory as I learn):
17alphaOHProgesterone is high->low 11-DeoxyCortisol -> High Progesterone -> High 11-DesoxiCorticosterone
Also:
High progesterone is being counterbalanced by lowering estradiol -> High IGF-1 to counterbalance high Progesterone's effect on 5AR -> DHT is maintained -> 3adiol Normal -> 3aDiolG normal

in any case-> low cortisol during day-> high RT3 -> Tissue Resistance to Thyroid Hormones ->sex hormones out of balance.

to look for possible causes of low cortisol, you might want to have a look at this guy's experience! it's awesome (he is also a MD): http://propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2261

he recovered and he said:
it is essential to do the following tests:
- stool DNA parasitology test
- Blood electron microscopy
- Saliva cortisol
- Saliva DHEA
- Serum reverse t3 levels
- Serum zinc
- Serum copper


this problem is bringing me wisdom..i am learning to believe in god and have faith. this is something i had lost
 
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drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
I started theorizing another way around and kept the functional hypoglycemia aside. Plus I can't go any further in it withouth further testing.

What I think is happening (mind you I am constantly changing this theory as I learn):
17alphaOHProgesterone is high->low 11-DeoxyCortisol -> High Progesterone -> High 11-DesoxiCorticosterone
Also:
High progesterone is being counterbalanced by lowering estradiol -> High IGF-1 to counterbalance high Progesterone's effect on 5AR -> DHT is maintained -> 3adiol Normal -> 3aDiolG normal

in any case-> low cortisol during day-> high RT3 -> Tissue Resistance to Thyroid Hormones ->sex hormones out of balance.

to look for possible causes of low cortisol, you might want to have a look at this guy's experience! it's awesome (he is also a MD): http://propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2261

he recovered and he said:
it is essential to do the following tests:
- stool DNA parasitology test
- Blood electron microscopy
- Saliva cortisol
- Saliva DHEA
- Serum reverse t3 levels
- Serum zinc
- Serum copper


this problem is bringing me wisdom..i am learning to believe in god and have faith. this is something i had lost


My serum copper and zinc are normal, but my RBC copper and zinc are low, and I was told the RBC values are more important.

Interesting about the stool test, I need to get that done at some point.


I will say anecdotally that I've had an amazingly awesome reaction to 7-keto-DHEA in the last two days. It literally takes away all my symptoms.

But I've had to dose it pretty high, and may go higher, although doses range from 200 mg - 1400 mg in divided doses.


7-keto DHEA does allot of really cool things, but mainly it is anagonistic to cortisol, lowering it, it elevates some enzymes which promote higher levels of t3 at the cellular level, and it increases IL-2 which boosts T-helper cells which are mediators of the immune system, quieting the immune system, and stopping autoimmunity.

This is pretty early, but I wanted to share my results. I may take it all the way up to 1,400 mg and beyond.

Note: I'm also taking rhodiola/norival/p5p together which it on an empty stomach. They may be having a synergistic effect or none at all. Oh, and molybdenum as well.
 
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Great my friend, keep us updated. I will.do the same

I read the RBC values are more important as well.

I dont know yet the correlation between this and dhea but i see JN mentioned it too. So i will let u know of what i find
 
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drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
Just to let you know, It looks like my autoimmune stuff is coming back negative for everything, and my system inflammation is low.

Everything must be related to high cortisol and low free testosterone. My total testosterone is 750 ng/dl. My free is only 120 ng/dl because my SHGB is so high.
 
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Just to let you know, It looks like my autoimmune stuff is coming back negative for everything, and my system inflammation is low.

Everything must be related to high cortisol and low free testosterone. My total testosterone is 750 ng/dl. My free is only 120 ng/dl because my SHGB is so high.

From what I've been reading SHBG is a red herring. It's affected by too much stuff. Plus it's got higher affinity for DHT than for T.

What else is off range for you?

Have you tried balancing out the zinc and copper?
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
From what I've been reading SHBG is a red herring. It's affected by too much stuff. Plus it's got higher affinity for DHT than for T.

What else is off range for you?

Have you tried balancing out the zinc and copper?


Good point. One thing I noticed about my urine hormone levels is that my metabolized androgens are high. I wonder if this is because SHGB is holding them captive, and then they are eventually excreted.

I currently take 50 mg (11 mg elemental) zinc at night, and 3 mg elemental copper. It's possible that my zinc is low because of my elevated kryptopyrolles (13) ref: 1-9.

Compound hetero MTHFR
Borderline low RBC magnesium
Low RBC zinc
Low RBC copper
High Candida IgA (but I can't find resource that suggests this has any significance)
Positive for antiphospholipid antibodies, then negative twice (false positive or cross reaction)?
High cortisol, and maladapter diurnal rhythm (pseudocushings)?
Low free testosterone
Low WBC
 
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211
here, I summarized that guy's posts.maybe it can help you...

Tried HGH-> Felt better and then not anymore
Tried exogenous androgens -> no recovery
28th June 2010-> Started on T3 and slowly titrated down everything else(??)
10weeks later -> Had to increase T3 as it was not doing enough anymore. Someone proposed his endogenous T3 production was adjusting and being suppressed, to which he seemed to agree.
23/09/2010 -> Noticed signs of adrenal fatigue.
15/10/2010-> injection of b12, feeling much better.I think I have this problem too. States that he feels like 5areductase is fully functional..as what i have concluded from my studying.
30/10/2015 - well that's very interesting. another b12 shot and feeling great.
01/11/2010 - feels like he has a problem with 3b HSD. Interestingly, finasteride is known to inhibit this enzyme too.
03/11/2010 - started on hydrocortisone 20/10/5/1..seems a little high to me..
11/1/2011 - feels recovered
27/1/2011 - mentions a feedback mechanism for T3 and cortisol. T3 lowers cortisol. that one is new for me.
09/02/2011 - Stopped T3 and Hydrocortisone. Reason was he felt that all the RT3 as out of the system. Feeling great on T 80 IM /week, HCG 150iu 3x/week, preg 50mg
10/2/2011- Culprit was RT3 all those years.. Tissue Resistance to Thyroid Hormone like I suspected! Interesting.. Also gives instructions on how he tappered off. It's interesting that he refers: "i'm feeling better by the day", like people on progesterone mention. progesterone affects cortisol..
22/08/2011 - He dropped all the things and is only taking vitamins for pyroluria. identified parasites and took something for it.
From this point onwards i'm copy pasting every post and not just the ones I find relevant
23/08/2011 - Said he stopped T HCG arimidex oxytocin pregnenolone in March and in June was diagnosed and treated for pyroluria, parasites, avoided allergic foods..etc.
26/08/2011 - Lists a bunch of points that need to be addressed but doesn't say HOW.
28/08/2011 - Refers that adrenal fatigue is a symptom not a cause.
02/09/2011 - Link between low body temperature and adrenal fatigue and thyroid issues. His has been very low
04/09/2011 - Deterioration in last 3 weeks due to stress. but is recovering again now, once the stressor is over.
10/09/2011 - Has a theory for all this, which I also got to...late developer, stressed, maybe cortisol was high already...
24/09/2011 - 75mg Zinc, Vit C, Vit B6, Vit E, Biotin. Identified LOW TEST, LOW E2, HIGH SHBG, LOW COPPER, normal zinc. Had stopped Test injection in June and it dropped a lot! 4 days after stopping zinc,vit C , B6, Vit E and biotin, was feeling much better. Maybe it was VitC and Zinc driving Copper further down. (my guess too). Started on 4mg Copper and increased zinc to 90mg.
30/09/2011 - Copper is working. Musculature returning, sexual musculature returning, sexual functioning improving.
06/10/2011 - Finally said his histamine resutl: 0.2 [0.2-2.0]
11/10/2011 - Upped his copper to 8mg a day because "was feeling it slide down".
12/10/2011 - Copper binding protein and copper LOW during 90mg zinc+4mg copper. Is not taking 8 mg copper divided in 2 doses. no mention of zinc but I think he maintains it.
15/10/2011 - Zinc is high.
22/10/2011 - List a series of tests to make
07/11/2011 - Is taking 8mg copper at 7am and 90mg zinc at 4pm. Is going to increase it to 10mg.
16/12/2011 - Takes transdermal magneisum in the morning, 90mg zinc and 12mg copper. Also takes chlorella daily.
13/01/2012 - still low on T!! wtf.. taking zinc at night and copper in the morning.
13/02/2012 - Feeling great. And thinkgs he will recover his test naturally in time.
14/02/2012 - had to reduce his copper because now it was high.
22/02/2013 - One year later... Says he's feeling great. Now taking DHEA, 25mg @7am and 25mg @6pm for which he needs arimidex and on 70mg zinc @ night and 12mg copper @morning.
(JN's thread - 2nd part)
19/06/2013 - Feels that will be on DHEA and arimidex for life. Enphasizes what he thinks really is the problem.
21/06/2013 - Feels recovered asks the thread to be moved to recovery sections.
14/11/2013 - This is what I think has happened..i did ask my PhD friend if she thought parasites or infectinos would set in on low cortisol, she did find it unlinkely though.. "Certainly I've related the 'excessive horniness' prior to the crash as probably markedly elevated cortisol- and DHEA levels- (stress response), followed by a subsequent 'crash' of cortisol levels- and DHEA levels- and shift to production of rt3 instead of t3 (thus lowering body temperature, and THEN parasites/yeasts kicking in). "
07/03/2014 - Temperature is important for recovery as zinc:copper balance.
08/03/2014 - Summary: 1. spend 30 seconds taking your body temperature. You'll find it is low.; 2. get a stool DNA parasitology test and a blood electron microscopy test to look for systemic infections, which all men here will have. Pathogens grow at a low body temperature. They need to be obliterated.; 3. treat adrenal fatigue and zinc:copper ratio.

Conclusion:
1. spend 30 seconds taking your body temperature. You'll find it is low.
2. get a stool DNA parasitology test and a blood electron microscopy test to look for systemic infections, which all men here will have. Pathogens grow at a low body temperature. They need to be obliterated.
3. treat adrenal fatigue and zinc:copper ratio.
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=470&postcount=23

SHGB (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin):
Let's look at what influences SHBG:
Increases SHBG:
Estrogens (particularly Estradiol)
Progesterone (by increasing Estrogen receptors)
Thyroid Hormone (particularly Hyperthyroidism)
Liver Disease
Anorexia, Starvation
Hypoglycemia (low insulin)

Reduces SHBG:
Insulin (and insulin resistance)
Testosterone
Growth Hormone
DHEA
Other Androgens
Obesity
Hypothyroidism
Excessive Cortisol (Cushing's Syndrome or Disease)
Progestins (such as by blocking progesterone's effects)
 
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211
at least in my case, I dont think SHBG tells me anything. If it were over range or under range, it could give me some more clues, but it's like that guy says, it's affected by many things and will then cancel eachother out. SHBG is the net effect of all those. That's what I concluded from my studying. I'm happy I concluded correctly..let's see where this goes.

Did you check your body temperature in the mornign?
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
at least in my case, I dont think SHBG tells me anything. If it were over range or under range, it could give me some more clues, but it's like that guy says, it's affected by many things and will then cancel eachother out. SHBG is the net effect of all those. That's what I concluded from my studying. I'm happy I concluded correctly..let's see where this goes.

Did you check your body temperature in the mornign?

Yeah, I think you're right, but ironically it says that excessive cortisol lowers it. So something doesn't add up.

Total test is relatively high, so that would drive it down, and so would high cortisol. Estrogen is normal. Insulin is low or normal...DHEA may be low, that may have an impact. Not hyper or hypo thyroid based on free t3, and antibodies. Not obese.

Possibilities are low insulin, low DHEA, not enough calories, and liver issues.


I went through a phase where I tested my body temperature and it was never consistent. It was also low to high 97's in the morning, but the method I was using wasn't reliable (in ear). I had it taken once in the docs office mid day and it was 98.7.
 
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Yeah, I think you're right, but ironically it says that excessive cortisol lowers it. So something doesn't add up.

Total test is relatively high, so that would drive it down, and so would high cortisol. Estrogen is normal. Insulin is low or normal...DHEA may be low, that may have an impact. Not hyper or hypo thyroid based on free t3, and antibodies. Not obese.

Possibilities are low insulin, low DHEA, not enough calories, and liver issues.


I went through a phase where I tested my body temperature and it was never consistent. It was also low to high 97's in the morning, but the method I was using wasn't reliable (in ear). I had it taken once in the docs office mid day and it was 98.7.

you might want to recheck thyroid using RT3. I am doing it this week.
Also I just consolidated some more data on the finasteride forum. I just discovered that almost everyone (or everyone) is hypothyroid or subclinically hypothyroid. Most of them don't even know ebcasue their doctors only test TSH and FT3/FT4, like mine. Then one day they find someone who is willing to test RT3 and they discover they are hypothiroid. Check the temperature and discover they have 97F or less..man, i even discovered a guy saying he tested 34.3 ºC (i wonder what happened to him). i analysed 24 guys, of which 17 either were hypothyroid, or had rt3 over range (could amount to the same iguess??). the others didnt have enough data to discard hypothyroidism but i can bet they were hypo

i also have 2 guys whose values of TSH prove me finasteride makes yuo permanently hypothyroid, years after you quit, or when you go on it.

DHEA is important too as will influence test and oestrogens...

retest your temp, seems to be a cheap thyroid test
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
you might want to recheck thyroid using RT3. I am doing it this week.
Also I just consolidated some more data on the finasteride forum. I just discovered that almost everyone (or everyone) is hypothyroid or subclinically hypothyroid. Most of them don't even know ebcasue their doctors only test TSH and FT3/FT4, like mine. Then one day they find someone who is willing to test RT3 and they discover they are hypothiroid. Check the temperature and discover they have 97F or less..man, i even discovered a guy saying he tested 34.3 ºC (i wonder what happened to him). i analysed 24 guys, of which 17 either were hypothyroid, or had rt3 over range (could amount to the same iguess??). the others didnt have enough data to discard hypothyroidism but i can bet they were hypo

i also have 2 guys whose values of TSH prove me finasteride makes yuo permanently hypothyroid, years after you quit, or when you go on it.

DHEA is important too as will influence test and oestrogens...

retest your temp, seems to be a cheap thyroid test


There is only 1 accurate way to test your temp, and that's using a gerotherm thermometer (unless you use mercury). I was told by a few docs that your temp isn't an accurate way of determining thyroid function since your temp is regulated by the hypothalamus. In any case, I know finasteride has a long half life, but it's got to be out of your system at some point right? At which point it should stop exerting effects. Maybe that takes years?

The thyroid is so influenced by cortisol and the adrenals that I'd bet that most people who are hypothyroid either aren't producing enough cortisol, are producing too much (causes hormone resistance), or at the wrong times.
 
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There is only 1 accurate way to test your temp, and that's using a gerotherm thermometer (unless you use mercury). I was told by a few docs that your temp isn't an accurate way of determining thyroid function since your temp is regulated by the hypothalamus. In any case, I know finasteride has a long half life, but it's got to be out of your system at some point right? At which point it should stop exerting effects. Maybe that takes years?

finasteride has something like 6 hours of half life. The problem with finasteride is that the affinity for 5alpha reducatase is so high, that only one pill wipes out most of your 5alpha reductase II enzymes (and recently discovered III).
Because it's an irreversible inhibitor, it really binds to the enzymes and inactivates them, creating a complex called 5alpha reductase-finasteride or something like that, which is then useless to the body and is excreted. so basically it destroyes the enzymes...and your body takes around 30 days to replenish them again.

somewhere along this procedure, for some people, something goes wrong and noone knows what is it...and people end up with permanent sides. over the hairloss forums everyone is saying its psychological. i can guarantee you it's not, because I have labs and physical symptoms.

anyway, merck either lied on the tests or we have a predesposition for which people were exlucded in the trials...
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
finasteride has something like 6 hours of half life. The problem with finasteride is that the affinity for 5alpha reducatase is so high, that only one pill wipes out most of your 5alpha reductase II enzymes (and recently discovered III).
Because it's an irreversible inhibitor, it really binds to the enzymes and inactivates them, creating a complex called 5alpha reductase-finasteride or something like that, which is then useless to the body and is excreted. so basically it destroyes the enzymes...and your body takes around 30 days to replenish them again.

somewhere along this procedure, for some people, something goes wrong and noone knows what is it...and people end up with permanent sides. over the hairloss forums everyone is saying its psychological. i can guarantee you it's not, because I have labs and physical symptoms.

anyway, merck either lied on the tests or we have a predesposition for which people were exlucded in the trials...


Correction, I was thinking of durtasteride, not finasteride.

I have heard of issues with fina, but I'm not sure exactly the mechanism behind these problems. Can it cross the blood brain barrier? If so, perhaps it could damage the hypothalamus somehow. I wonder if allot of us have hypothalamus damage which results in all sorts of hormone imabalances.
 
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Correction, I was thinking of durtasteride, not finasteride.

I have heard of issues with fina, but I'm not sure exactly the mechanism behind these problems. Can it cross the blood brain barrier? If so, perhaps it could damage the hypothalamus somehow. I wonder if allot of us have hypothalamus damage which results in all sorts of hormone imabalances.

that is a damn good question...
i think it crosses the BBB and inhibits 5AR III.

i also found a guy saying he was doing well on psylocibin... so that "could" be evidence for hypothalamus damage...i hope we're wrong

there's recovery stories so I don't want to believe anything is permanent. and they also have post recovery tests to prove it

but have you taken finasteride?i hope not