1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Did You Have Yourself a Crashy Little Christmas?
Jody Smith may have dodged a holiday bullet this year. She's hoping. Only time will tell. How did you fare?
Discuss the article on the Forums.

23 and Me Results- Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by Brent, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. Brent

    Brent

    Messages:
    32
    Likes:
    0
    Valetijn,

    Any idea how long it would take for methylfolate and b12 supplementation to take an effect for someone in my situation?? So far I havent seen much of a positive effect... I seem to have a slight mild headache on short occassions during the day that has sprung up, but nothing serious...
     
  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,718
    Likes:
    10,235
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    No idea, sorry. It might not have any noticeable effect at all.
     
  3. Brent

    Brent

    Messages:
    32
    Likes:
    0
    Well that's unfortunate......
     
  4. Brent

    Brent

    Messages:
    32
    Likes:
    0
    Whats your recommendation on a hydroxo b12 brand? I've read that b12 supplements really vary as far as effectiveness and consistency... At least with the methylb12 form... but you said hydroxo may be a better route to go...
     
  5. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,718
    Likes:
    10,235
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    I don't really have an opinion on brands, for hydroxoB12 or methylB12. I haven't noticed one brand being more or less effective than another.
     
  6. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    285
    Likes:
    8
    US
    I started taking the methylfolate but don't know if it helps me. I had ordered the methyl b12 but they gave me folate.
    I have a lot of nausea from antibiotics, alpha lipoic acid, 1.4g of sam-E, intestinal infections. what is a good way to increase melatonin production safely?
    I know 5-htp is probably dangerous and raises serotonin levels in the blood too high so that it may damage the heart
     
  7. kday

    kday Senior Member

    Messages:
    260
    Likes:
    48
    Brent - you are missing the GSTT1 (Glutathione S-tranferase theta-1). While this isn't uncommon (around 15% of the population is missing this gene), it's still not good. And I'd be curious if you are missing the GSTM1 gene as well (as that would make the glutathione and detoxification propecia theory a lot more interesting).

    A genetic test isn't going to tell you if you have low glutathione. However, the methylation panel at Vitamin Diagnostics is quite different and looks at your glutathione, SAMe, and folic acid byproducts directly. However, to order the test online it is $399 dollars but you can find coupon codes - at the top of the site it looks like they are offering 7% off ending today. You can have your doctor order this test for you, but sometimes it's hard finding that willing doctor. Below is a link to order it yourself.

    http://www.truehealthlabs.com/methylation-pathway-test-health-diagnosics/

    Alternatively, you or your doctor can order a glutathione test through LabCorp (reduced glutathione). It's not nearly as good or comprehensive at the Vitamin Diagnostics test, but it's easier to interpret as you are just looking at glutathione alone. Unfortunately, the test only looks at whole blood and not RBC glutathione, so it may not as accurately determine your glutathione levels. It is $119, but you can use that 7% coupon to save some money.

    http://www.truehealthlabs.com/glutathione-test/

    If you have insurance, the LabCorp test may be partially or completely covered (depending on your insurance plan) if ordered through your doctor. The Vitamin Diagnostics test is not likely covered by insurance, but you can try submitting for partial reimbursement.

    If your levels come back low, and B12/Folate, etc doesn't seem to be making a difference, I highly recommend the supplement S-Acetyl-Glutathione to boost glutathione (as well as intracellular glutathione). Other forms typically don't work. This partcular supplement can be quite expensive though.

    Some excellent Whey proteins that boost glutathione levels include Immunocal (very expensive), ImmunoPro Rx, and Vital Whey. I don't recommend picking up Whey at your local store as the brands they typically carry don't work very well to boost glutathione (despite manufacturer's claims). Immunocal has been scientifically proven, and the others I mention have been around for a while with a lot of anectodal evidence of effectiveness.
     
  8. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

    Messages:
    285
    Likes:
    8
    US
  9. Brent

    Brent

    Messages:
    32
    Likes:
    0

    THank you for the response KDAY, I'm a tad curious how you know I took propecia without me mentioning it in this thread? lol Tell me who you are via PM please.

    I actually ordered the methylation pathways test by Seeking Health.. Do you think that is an adequate test?

    I've been taking methylb12 1000mcg and methylfolate 800mcg for over a week now and have seen zero benefit.. And this has really worried me....Also it may be giving me a mild headache at times... I NEVER get headaches.

    Can you link me to some quality products of S-Acetyl-Glutathione... I thought supplementing glutathion was not effective??

    can you provide me with some studies/threads on the whey supplementation being good for increasing glutahtione, as I would like to read them..

    How can i find out if I am missing the GSTM1 gene?

    and thanks again for your suggestions.. They are much appreciated...
     
  10. Brent

    Brent

    Messages:
    32
    Likes:
    0
    I also had thought that when supplementing glutathione, although it can raise the levels, they will taper off once stopping.
     
  11. kday

    kday Senior Member

    Messages:
    260
    Likes:
    48
    Brent - To the first question: I'm intuitive.

    He he, I'm kidding - I think I confused your post with another. Both of you are missing the GSTT1 gene. Don't know if that means anything (maybe just a coincidence), but interesting.

    Yes, after you stop glutathione, your levels will likely "taper off". But if propecia is why you got sick (I don't know if this is true or not) my thought is increasing glutathione in the short term may help detox whatever is causing the continued oxidative stress and glutathione depletion. Of course, it may not be this simple as your body may not be able to detoxify the xenobiotics that got you sick.

    Immunocal is in the Physician's Desk Reference (the doctors bible basically) and believe it completed several phases of clinical trials. Then they decided to sell it in multilevel marketing, but it happens to be a good MLM product. No, I don't sell it.

    I haven't looked to see how much research ImmunoPro or Vital Whey, but it has been viewed as an equivalent or better to Immunocal for boosting glutathione (and much cheaper). I also know people that have had extremely profound and positive responses to these whey proteins, but not others. Immunocal and Vital Whey use the same source for their Whey (I think).

    Immunocal studies: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=immunocal glutathione&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,44
     
  12. Brent

    Brent

    Messages:
    32
    Likes:
    0
    Propecia is definitily why I got sick, I just left it out of my post.. I know another guy who recently posted in this section as well got sick from propecia as well... That is interesting that we both have the same detox gene deletion... We are actually trying to get more guys like myself to do these tests to compare data..We have decent amount of participants. IDK if we all have that same detox gene deletion though.

    Believe it or not there was actually a study done where they used finasteride to induce oxidative stress in rats... It only took TEN days to induce OS!

    Okay I see what you're saying now. Viewing glutathione supplemenation as a booster to help the body detox, not just propecia or whatever is causing this, and just help us detox in general.. I can tell you that every person that has cured their Post Finasteride syndrome has done it by some form of detox/nutrition/enema/cleansing/etc.. Thats why we are starting to get into methylation and we are finding that all of us have quite a few mutations..

    Do you suspect that the reason I am not responding well to methylfolate and b12 possible because of the depletion? I wonder if boosting glutathione would make those supplements work better..
     
  13. kday

    kday Senior Member

    Messages:
    260
    Likes:
    48
    So many questions I can't answer. Will B12/Folate boost glutathione in your case. Seeing that you are a compound heterozygous for MTHFR and probably have oxidative stress going on and a GSTT1 deletion, I would say maybe. However whey and glutathione directly (s-acetyl) would likely in my eyes.

    Glutathione is considered the "master antioxidant" and so you probably want to do anything to raise it to combat oxidative stress if detox strategies have got other people better. You can also do IV glutathione infusions at many integrative clinics.

    Other things to look at for oxidative stress is liposomal C and/or a vitamin c supplement with rosehips.

    Also, there are many people who use coffee enemas with great results. I don't know exactly how it works, but the theory is it stimulates the liver to produce glutathione. We are getting quite "alternative" when I bring up coffee enemas but there does seem to be some type of magic about it. I don't think you could easily attribute the improvements people feel as a placebo effect because who seriously enjoys sticking coffee up the wrong orifice. :)

    Of course you can combine a methylation protocol with whey, glutathione, vitamin C, coffee enema and so on.

    You may not know exactly what treatments are working this way, but if it gets you feeling better, who cares what worked and what didn't. That's my philosophy anyway.

    What is your current dose of B12 and folate? Some don't notice much of an effect until they are on 10,000-25,000 mcg of B12 and a few mg of Folate
    These would be considered very high doses.
     
  14. Brent

    Brent

    Messages:
    32
    Likes:
    0

    Thanks Kday,

    I plan on incorporating whey, S-Acetyl-Glutathione, and coffee enemas to boost glutathione along w/ methylation support.. I feel like throwing the kitchen sink at this thing is the best option.. And you're right, I really don't care how or what specficially is a working, just as along as it does work..

    I'm guessing that you've had success using S-Acetyl-Glutathione and whey?

    My current does of folate is 800mcg of solger methylfolate and 2mg of methylb12.. I have been on it for a week or so just to see if I would have a good reaction to it.. It hasnt been a good or bad experience. I have nothing really to report, and I suspect it was giving me a mild headache.. As to if that was die off or detox I have no idea...


    Wouldnt NAC be simliar to supplementing whey or what is the difference between the two? I know whey is comprised with the raw materials for glutathione.. sorry for soo many questions, i am sort of new to all of this.
     
  15. Brent

    Brent

    Messages:
    32
    Likes:
    0
    Hello,

    I have received my methylation pathways panel.. recommendations would be helpful... thanks!

    Glutathione oxidased- 0.36 (0.16-0.50)
    Glutathione reduced- 2.9 (3.8-5.5)
    S-andeosylmethionine 220 (221-256)
    S-adenosylhomosysteine 38.4 (38-49)
    5 CH3-THF 10.4 (8.4-72.6)
    10 formyl-THF 1.2 (1.5- 8.2)
    5formyl -THF 1.0 (1.20-11.70)

    THF .56 (0.60-6.80)
    Folic acid 9.6 (8.9-24.6)
    Folinic acid 8.1 (9.0-35.0)
    active folate rbc 344 (400-1500)
    adenosine 18.2 (16.8-21.0)
     
  16. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,718
    Likes:
    10,235
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    It does look like you have a significant problem creating methylfolate, but not a super huge one. This probably is explained by your MTHFR C677T, and can be treated by taking methylfolate. Because your levels aren't worse, you might have lucked out and gotten your MTHFR A1298C from the same parent (thus on the same strand) as the C677T mutation, meaning you're producing methylfolate at 65% of normal instead of 30% of normal.
     
  17. Brent

    Brent

    Messages:
    32
    Likes:
    0
    okay so is it fair to say that the headaches that methylfolate is giving me, related to detox then? I took it for a few days then backed off because I wasnt sure if I needed to be taking it.
     
  18. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,718
    Likes:
    10,235
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    No idea about detox reactions ... but your genes and your blood say you definitely need more methylfolate, so any problems arising from taking methylfolate shouldn't be directly attributable to the methylfolate. It might be worthwhile to try it without the B12 for a bit, or with a much smaller dose of B12, to see if you still get a headache.
     
  19. Brent

    Brent

    Messages:
    32
    Likes:
    0
    How come with no b12? I actually think b12 might have been giving me the headache now that I think back..
     
  20. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,718
    Likes:
    10,235
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    It might be pushing your methylation cycle too fast for your methylfolate to keep up with.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page