1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Join the National PR Campaign for ME: Power to the Patient (P2tP)
Have you had enough of all the neglect and abuse of ME/CFS patients? Gabby Klein says now is the time for a National PR Campaign for ME/CFS to impress a change. Join the Patient Revolution to restore power to ME patients ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

2002 paper: Physical or mental? A perspective on chronic fatigue syndrome [physical]

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by WillowJ, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,102
    Likes:
    2,729
    WA, USA
    Richard Sykes. Physical or mental? A perspective on chronic fatigue syndrome. Advances in Psychiatric Treatment (2002) 8: 351-358 doi: 10.1192/apt.8.5.351

    http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/8/5/351.full

     
    Snow Leopard and oceanblue like this.
  2. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,102
    Likes:
    2,729
    WA, USA
    (paragraph breaks added)
     
    ahimsa likes this.
  3. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,102
    Likes:
    2,729
    WA, USA
    more quotes for those unable to read the entire paper:

    Indeed.

     
    SOC and Enid like this.
  4. oceanblue

    oceanblue Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes:
    343
    UK
    What a great find, I'd not seen that before. Thank you WillowJ for that and the easy-to-digest quotes. I note there are accompanying commentaries from Peter White though I've not read them or the paper yet. A reply to the commentaries from Sykes is here.
     
    WillowJ likes this.
  5. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,299
    Likes:
    5,617
    There are responses from a few people, and then a reply from Sykes too. Here's the White response: http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/8/5/363.short

    I've not re-read it, but remember it as avoiding Sykes's key points, and Sykes picking him up on this in response.
     
  6. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,299
    Likes:
    5,617
    The article and responses are pooled here: http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/8/5/358.full.pdf

    It doesn't seem to include Syke's response to the responses though, and I thought that there was one.

    edit: Just seen OB's post above where he mentions all this. Whoops. Too slow!
     
    WillowJ likes this.
  7. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes:
    840
    UK
    Very interesting find - thanks Willow.
     
    WillowJ likes this.
  8. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,102
    Likes:
    2,729
    WA, USA
    thanks for the links to the commentaries
     
  9. DaiWelsh

    DaiWelsh

    Messages:
    46
    Likes:
    28
    Wow got to love the logic in White's response - mind/body duality is unhelpful and old-fashioned so treating ME/CFS as physical is unhelpful. No mention that this leaves us as de-facto psychiatric which is errr.... dualistic and unhelpful (as well as contrary to prevailing evidence)... Also got to love the repeated name-checks for himself and wessely, you would think they were the only researchers in this field <sigh>
     
  10. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,299
    Likes:
    5,617
    Abstract for a more recent Sykes paper here: Medically Unexplained Symptoms and the Siren 'Psychogenic Inference': https://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&t...ychiatry_and_psychology/v017/17.4.sykes01.pdf

    Not looked for the full paper yet, but it sounds like it mentions CFS.

    This commentary on it is by Dr Michael Loughlin, a philosopher of Science, and available free at the link below. It doesn't say much on the issues likely to be of interest to people here that has not already been discussed, but I find it interesting to see how these matters are discussed in the academic literature.

    He makes an obvious comment on page 307 which is too rarely mentioned in academic papers imo. It starts - "Obviously, the fact that someone..." (can't copy and paste and too lazy to type sorry).

    http://mmu.academia.edu/MichaelLoughlin/Papers/1025687/Psychologism_Overpsychologism_and_Action

    Looks like there's another reply, and a response from Sykes in the issue too:

    https://muse.jhu.edu/journals/philosophy_psychiatry_and_psychology/toc/ppp.17.4.html

    Sorry for not providing much of a summary of what I read (I'm terrible at this).
     
  11. Megan

    Megan Senior Member

    Messages:
    230
    Likes:
    13
    Australia
    Thanks Willow and Esther, these are a great read.
     
    WillowJ likes this.
  12. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,299
    Likes:
    5,617
    I've not been able to get the full papers for these. If anyone has them and can share via a link or PM, I'd like to give them a look (no worries if not, I could always try e-mailing the authors for copies). Ta.
     
  13. PhoenixDown

    PhoenixDown Senior Member

    Messages:
    258
    Likes:
    235
    UK
    and in the doctor's office the patient will be refused necessary testing to rule out physical illnesses and provide vital objective proof of why they are experiencing symptoms.
     
    beaker, alex3619 and Snow Leopard like this.
  14. Don Quichotte

    Don Quichotte Don Quichotte

    Messages:
    97
    Likes:
    190
  15. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes:
    558
    UK
    I don't have time to write a lengthy post nor to discuss the work and affiliations of Dr Richard Sykes, PhD, (this issue was covered at length on my ME agenda site in 2009).

    But please be aware that Dr Sykes, who is now in his late 70s, was the instigator and coordinator of the "CISSD Project" (Conceptual Issues in Somatoform and Similar Disorders) which ran from 2003-2007.

    The project was administered by Action for M.E. and funded by the Hugh and Ruby Sykes Charitable Trust (Dr Sykes' twin brother is Sir Hugh Sykes).

    In 2008/9 Dr Sykes went on to work, on his own, on the "MUPSS Project", for which the administrator was the Institute of Psychiatry and the funder, once again, the Hugh and Ruby Sykes Charitable Trust. He has published at least one paper out of this later project.


    I did a considerable amount of work in 2009 to uncover the details of the CISSD Project, about which virtually nothing was known at the time. Eventually, Dr Sykes published a report on the project via the MEA's website (the MEA provided a platform but never commented on its content) and Action for M.E. subsequently placed an (uncorrected) copy of Dr Sykes' Final Report in the public domain.

    The Final Report to Action for M.E. can be read here:

    Co-ordinators Final Report
    THE CISSD PROJECT 2003-2007


    (Conceptual Issues in Somatoform and Similar Disorders)

    FINAL REPORT OF CO-ORDINATOR (Richard Sykes PhD, CQSW)

    Open document here in Word format: CISSD PROJECT Coordinators Final Report

    http://meagenda.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/cissd-project-coordinators-final-report.doc


    The version of the report published by the MEA on its old website can be read in this post on my ME agenda site:

    http://meagenda.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/cissd-project-report-from-dr-richard-sykes/


    Seven of the CISSD Project work group participants went on to become members of DSM-5 Work Groups:

    Michael Sharpe (UK), Francis Creed (UK), James Levenson (US) and Arthur Barsky (US) are members of the APAs DSM-5 Work Group for Somatic Symptom Disorders; Javier Escobar (US) is a member of the DSM-5 Task Force and liaison to the DSM-5 SSD Work Group.

    The UK chair of the CISSD Project was Michael Sharpe, the US chair was Kurt Kroenke.


    Dr Sykes' project had started off as a personal project. This is the work group as it ended up (the only patient rep was Frankie Campling).

    Reading the membership of the Project work group, you can see why Action for M.E. elected to keep the lid on this project.

    "I would like to express my most appreciative thanks to all those who gave support to the project: to the funding bodies and to AfME for their indispensable support: to Natalie Banner for her most helpful research assistance; to all the consultants who not only most generously donated their time and knowledge but did so in a most friendly and co-operative way.

    Most of all, my warmest thanks go to the organising group for their consistent support; to Rachel Jenkins for her invaluable help as Principal Collaborator; to John Bradfield, the Project Advisor, whose patient and perceptive comments on numerous draft documents were invaluable; to Michael Sharpe for his encouragement and work as Co chair UK; and, above all, to Kurt Kroenke for giving us the benefit of his internationally acclaimed expertise and for chairing the project so vigorously and effectively. My heartfelt thanks to all.

    Richard Sykes PhD, CQSW"


    Appendix B List of consultants

    Organising Group (5)
    Chairman: Prof Kurt Kroenke, Professor of Medicine, Regenstrief Institute, Indianapolis, USA
    Co-Chair (UK): Prof Michael Sharpe, Professor of Psychological Medicine, Edinburgh Univ
    Principal Collaborator: Prof Rachel Jenkins, WHO Collaborating Centre, Institute of Psychiatry, London Univ
    Project Advisor: Prof John Bradfield, former Professor of Histopathology, Bristol Univ
    Co-ordinator: Dr Richard Sykes, Hon Visiting Research Associate, Institute of Psychiatry, London Univ

    Active Consultants (28) who attended one or more of the three workshops or were significantly involved in discussions or publications.

    UK (10)
    Prof Derek Bolton, Professor of Philosophy and Psychopathology, Institute of Psychiatry, London University
    Dr Richard J Brown, Lecturer in Clinical Psychology, University of Manchester
    Frankie Campling, Patient Representative, Oxford
    Dr Rachel Cooper, Lecturer in Philosophy, Lancaster University
    Prof Francis Creed, Professor of Psychological Medicine, Manchester University
    Dr Richard Kanaan, Clinical Lecturer, Institute of Psychiatry, London University
    Prof Richard Mayou, Professor of Psychiatry, University of Oxford
    Dr Ruth Taylor, Senior Lecturer in Liaison Psychiatry, London University
    Professor Michael Trimble, Professor of Behavioural Neurology, Institute of Neurology, London
    Research Assistant Natalie Banner

    USA (7)
    Prof Arthur Barsky, Prof of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass.
    Dr Charles Engel, Assoc Prof of Psychiatry, Uniformed Services University, Washington, DC
    Prof Javier Escobar, Prof of Psychiatry, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, New Jersey
    Prof James Levenson, Prof of Psychiatry, Medicine and Surgery, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, Virginia
    Prof Kathryn Rost, Prof in Mental Health, College of Medicine, Florida State University
    Dr Robert C. Smith, Prof of Medicine and Psychiatry, Michigan State University, East Lansing, Michigan
    Prof Mark Sullivan, Prof of Psychiatry, Washington University, Seattle

    Germany (4)
    Prof Dr Peter Henningsen, Prof of Psychosomatic Medicine, University Hospital, Munich
    Prof Dr Wolfgang Hiller, Psychological Institute, University of Mainz
    Prof Dr Bernd Lwe, Director, Institute for Psychosomatic Medicine and Psychotherapy, Hamburg
    Prof Dr Winfried Rief, Professor of Psychology and Psychotherapy, Marburg

    The Netherlands (5)
    Dr Ingrid Arnold, Department of Public Health and Primary Care, Leiden University Medical Center
    Dr Veronique de Gucht, Department of Clinical and Health Psychology, Leiden University
    Prof dr Stan Maes, Professor of Health Psychology, Leiden University
    Prof Dr Philip Spinhoven, Faculty of Social Sciences, Leiden University
    Dr Margot de Vaal, Department of Public Health and Primary Care, Leiden University Medical Center

    Denmark (1)
    Prof Per Fink, Professor of Psychiatry, Aarhus University Hospital

    Norway (1)
    Dr Kari Ann Leiknes, Research Fellow, Institute of Basic Medical Sciences, Oslo University

    ------------

    In mid 2007, Sykes, Sharpe and Kroenke published this paper out of the CISSD Project (note there is virtually no mention of CFS, ME and WHO ICD classifications in this paper):

    Paper published by the CISSD Project Chairs and Principal Collaborator, Rachel Jenkins, in July 2007:

    Review Articles

    Psychosomatics 48:4, July-August 2007

    Revising the Classification of Somatoform Disorders: Key Questions and Preliminary Recommendations

    Full paper in PDF format: http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/48/4/277.pdf

    Full paper in html format: http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/48/4/277


    Suzy Chapman
     
    Wildcat likes this.
  16. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

    Messages:
    1,819
    Likes:
    558
    UK
    Links for all the posts on ME agenda site around the CISSD Project are collated on this page:

    http://meagenda.wordpress.com/dx-revision-directory/

    Under:

    Elephant in the Room Series One
    Elephant in the Room Series Two



    The paper: Kroenke K: Somatoform disorders and recent diagnostic controversies. Psychiatr Clin North Am 2007 Dec;30(4):593-619. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17938036

    contains the caveat:

    Although the CISSD is an ad hoc group that includes many international experts on somatoform disorders, it was neither appointed nor sanctioned by the APA or WHO, the organizations authorized to approve revisions of DSM and ICD, respectively. As such, the CISSD recommendations should be considered advisory rather than official. Also, there were some suggestions for which the CISSD achieved near consensus but other issues where opinions diverged considerably.

    Recommendations and proposals resulting out of the work of the CISSD Project have fed into the DSM-5 revision process. Proposals have also been submitted to the WHO ICD Update and Revision Platform to the Topic Advisory Group Mental Health (TAGMH) section by Dr Sykes, specifically in respect of F45-F48 codes. No proposals appear to have been submitted by Dr Sykes to any other Topic Advisory Group (TAG) via the ICD Update and Revision Platform.
     
    Wildcat likes this.
  17. Wildcat

    Wildcat Senior Member

    Messages:
    733
    Likes:
    822
    .
    Richard Sykess PhD was in the Philosophy of Language. He has not had a paid/official position in any University for decades. For the last two decades he has made a career out of his hobby of linguistically deconstructing the words Chronic Fatigue and Syndrome.

    Richard Sykes was offered a platform at Royal College of Medicine Conferences and International Medical Conferences to exponentially pontificate and discursively shuffle backwards and forwards about the linguistic meaning of the words Chronic, Fatigue, and Syndrome, without ever reaching a conclusion.

    Richard Sykes was financed by his brother (Sir Hugh Sykes, who is a director of the Welfare to Work Company A4E).
    .
    For where Richard Sykes 'hobby' eventually lead (The CISSD Project) , please see MEAgends's posts above.
    .

    .
     
  18. Wildcat

    Wildcat Senior Member

    Messages:
    733
    Likes:
    822
    .
    The Company of which Richard Sykes' brother Hugh Sykes is a Director: A4e's input into David Freud's "In Work Better Off' consultation making .....recommendations in the context of commissioning modern
    welfare services"


    http://www.a4e.co.uk/PathwaystoWork.aspx

    "We believe that Pathways to Work can increase your chances of
    returning to sustainable, progressive employment while providing you
    with support for your condition through our Condition Management
    Programme."


    .

    The possible conflict of interest relating to Richard Sykes' CISSD Project being funded by his brother who is a Director of the biggest commercial Welfare to Work company in Europe (A4E), was never addressed by Richard Sykes Mentor, the UK charity Action for ME (AFME).

    .


    Please note that A4E is now under the most intense scrutiny in Britain for widespread Fraud, and its head, Emma Harrison, has consequently resigned:


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17476415

    'Leaked document suggests 'systemic fraud' at A4e'

    "Margaret Hodge MP, chair of the public accounts committee, said of the document:

    "This appears to be devastating evidence of systemic fraud within A4e. Either A4e failed to act or to inform DWP, or they did inform DWP and the department failed to investigate properly.
    Whichever, it is completely unacceptable. Once again, I am urging the department to suspend all its contracts with A4e immediately."

    .

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





    Dr Richard Sykes (the CISSD Project Co-ordinator) was founder and
    former Director of the former Bristol-based small charity Westcare, that controversially 'merged'
    with the charity Action for ME (AFME) in 2003 and spread counselling theories and counselling
    theory consciousness amongst AFME employees. The belief in counselling, along with the fact that AFME had inherited a number of counsellors from the now defunct Westcare, was also incorporated into AFME policy in 2003.

    Following the 'merger' of AFME with Westcare, AFME did a hard sell on marketing counselling
    to severely ill people with ME who phoned AFME because they were in
    need of homecare, Incapacity Benefit, DLA, or in need of legal representation for Sickness Benefits or Medical-Legal cases. Instead of being given practical and legal advice, due to Westcare's influence, the desperate callers to the AFME helpline were instead given advice by AFME on seeking counselling and learning relaxation.

    The counselling that AFME heavily marketed to the AFME Helpline callers was offered in two forms: as face to face counselling sessions in Bristol, or in a package of 10 telephone distance counselling
    sessions, both paid for by the NHS.

    The NHS eventually stopped funding the counselling sessions; and then AFME moved on to advertising and promoting (through articles) personal growth 'ME cures' such as Lightning Process, EFT, Yoga, and the Chrysalis Effect.



    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    .

    http://tinyurl.com/artoz8

    2003:
    InterAction Interview August 2003: The Westcare ME Counsellor (Psychotherapist
    and counsellor Georgina Nye, with Westcare since 1990):

    "...People with ME need to recover their self respect, their sense of
    self value. That's deeply important because it's hard to keep a
    management program in focus if you don't value yourself enough to
    care what happens to you"




    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    Action for ME and Westcare:

    Action for M.E. Report and Accounts 31st March 2003 says:

    `Action for M.E. has placed on record its appreciation of the work of
    Westcare UK's trustees, its founder and director Dr Richard Sykes and
    benefactors, including Sir Hugh Sykes, whose support made the merger
    possible.'
    .
     
  19. Wildcat

    Wildcat Senior Member

    Messages:
    733
    Likes:
    822
    Re the Action for ME Magazine 'Interaction' August 2003 interview with Richard Sykes' Westcare Counsellor Georgina Nye:


    The AFME/Westcare counsellor would have had us examine our self
    esteems, and then goes on to casually attribute People with ME with
    supposed feelings of "being stuck", and "not valuing
    ourselves enough to care what happens" to us; not to mention the Westcare Counsellor's concerns about the terrible, supposedly self-inflicted problem of "stifling the flow of energies
    through our bodies".


    Such unthinking and misinformed assumptions are staggering a
    disgraceful hotch-potch of half-digested, irresponsible pseudo-
    holism, pseudo-humanism and Pop-Paradigms a really bad
    advertisement for counselling per se.

    .

    It could be that both CBT and counselling are attracting avoidably
    bad reputations from the misuse and misapplication of those therapies
    to people with a serious medical disease, ie ME. It could it be
    that such misuse of psychotherapy and counselling is bringing both
    the therapies themselves, and the therapy/counselling professions,
    into disrepute.

    .
     
  20. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes:
    840
    UK
    Philosophy and linguistics (a hobby apparently) - any glimpse of medicine or science ? - Wittgenstein's personal problems for sure. S.... them. They do indeed bring the whole of medicine into disrepute.

    Luckily there are some Docs who know better.
     
    Wildcat likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page