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20 out of 10 to NHS! Set To Ban Smoking On Hospital Grounds

Discussion in 'Lifestyle Management' started by golden, Nov 28, 2013.

  1. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    @Kina,

    I don't think its a case of well the patient wants to smoke in hospital ...

    the patient may want antibiotics for their cold too but I don't think they should get them either- i am sure i could think of better examples if i tried.

    I am all for patient empowerment. However this issue of not smoking whilst on hospital grounds is somehow very different.

    Looking at the studies done, psychiactric patients BENEFIT a great deal from a smoking ban.

    I have always thought this.

    I have been seriously abused by smokers over the years on a physical/mental/emitional level and I have nothing but love for them :)


    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1270481

    However I often find its smokers with the cold-hearted attitudes - followed by certain x-smokers who then do become pious and judgemental ... not all do!


    It looks to me like its a win/win/win situation...with the health of medics improving too ! :)

    Best
    Golden
    peggy-sue likes this.
  2. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Just found your post, Golden!
    I do not, for one moment, think you are being cruel or heartless about it.
    Frankly, I have been absolutely delighted at the civility and trying to understand each others' points of view that we have managed to maintain in this thread.:hug:

    I do understand your despair at watching your mother doing this to herself, AND the nightmare you suffered as a child in a smoky atmosphere.

    I do understand the frustration of shouting at your mother "why don't you just stop?"
    I have shouted that at my own mother so often.
    (Her response was that she wasn't an alcoholic, because she could and did stop when it suited her. It just didn't suit her, mostly.)

    I've delighted it did put you off taking the filthy habit up.:thumbsup:
    It "normalised" smoking for me.

    I really would be happy for it to be made illegal and for cigarettes (or even electric things) to be available to registered addicts only, via prescription.

    The all-important thing is to prevent anybody starting. Then all the users will die in their own time, and it will be a thing of the past.

    I don't want to have to go into hospital for anything.
    But I'm pretty sure if I thought I would have to be there for a period of over, say 5 hours, without my electric thing, I wouldn't go at all.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2013
    golden likes this.
  3. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    :):)

    Yes, i forget this is a hot topic lol
    I pleased you not taking the topic personally as I havent always got the head energy to think and re-think my posts from all angles.

    I won't give credit to my parents for me not smoking though :) I think I was smoking enough via them passively !

    i agree the children are all-important. I am concerned the e-cigs are targeting them by the looks of things. :/

    But its the frustrated surgeons who I have been witnessing giving interviews over this issue. They are tearing their hair out as they see and treat their
    patients.

    You can see they have been worn down, demoralised and the system currently isn't supporting them and their advice to their patients.

    :)
    Best
    Golden
    peggy-sue likes this.
  4. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Wow - what a story! It would make a great film. Write that book immediately! :) I hope Michael is as happy as he makes you. And for goodness' sake make sure he lets you know when he is going mountaineering - you don't want to lose him!

    I gave up with men but am happy with my cats. My drug use, and before that, straightforward self-harm (which I class as my first addiction) were almost certainly due to being well-and-truly Larkined by my parents (father and stepmother - can't remember my mother) on top of all the other stressful events and situations of my childhood. They were also probably the reason I couldn't make relationships work. I had no suitable role models.

    This stuff is relevant as it illustrates the complexities of addiction. Being judgmental towards addicts is victim-blaming, just as is foisted on people with ME.
    golden, rosie26 and peggy-sue like this.
  5. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I agree with your post except the illegality bit. Prohibition doesn't work.
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  6. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    "Prohibition doesn't work."
    You do have a point there. A massive, insurmountable one.

    Your Michael might still be out there, MeSci.:love:
    I had given up on men completely the night I met him. I was at a girlfriend's new flat, we were having a boozy, man-free evening together, I was quite specifically telling her that men were off the radar completely as far as I was concerned.

    Then came a knock on the door, her new neighbour saying; "There's a bit of a party going on next-door, would you either please excuse the noise, or come and join us?".
    We picked up our bottles, and went next-door. The rest is history.

    I didn't have role models - although I found some useful ones in the Narnia books, but I did have a model of everything a relationship shouldn't be.

    I've not read that Larkin before - it's wonderful. I am child-free, by choice. I know what a responsibility parents have towards their offspring, because I know what happens to the children when it goes wrong.
    I know what power parents have over such tiny innocents.
    That sort of immense power is not something I could ever handle or be responsible for.

    The poem that summed up my feelings was Louis Mac Neice's; "Prayer Before Birth".
    http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/prayer-before-birth/



    Golden,:hug: e-cigs are NOT targetting children, at least not that I know of.
    That's something the scaremongerers are pushing.

    Although, I have to say, that once all the smokers have converted, then they die off, it does rather leave an empty market space...:cautious:

    But blame capitalism and business practices for that, if it does happen.

    Our local shop is "Over 18s only".
    They state clearly that what they are doing is offering a much safer alternative way of taking nicotine to folk who are already smokers.
    They have been open for a whole year now, anthere has not been one single non-smoker go in asking to try it. They do give free "tries" of flavours to the folk who do go in.
    I asked specifically, just the other day.

    I can't speak for internet companies. I don't use them.
    MeSci and rosie26 like this.
  7. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    Simply banning smoking from the hospital grounds is unlikely to be a good answer. Like somebody else said -- prohibition doesn't work. The end result might be smokers smoking in toilets etc. I think the best answer would be for people to stop making health decisions for others and the best happy medium might be to ban smoking around hospitals and allow/provide e-cigs or other alternatives to patients so they aren't suffering withdrawal symptoms when in hospital.

    I don't agree that banning smoking in psychiatric wards is beneficial -- maybe in the long term but certainly not in the short term. There are patients that can leave and go have a smoke outside and there are patients that are not able to do so. It's pretty simple to hand a patient a cigarette and they go have a nice smoke in the smoking area. It's not so simple to deny that patient a cigarette, have them get agitated, having to call a code white, having to give them a shot to calm them down etc etc. I have worked on a locked ward and I have seen my peers get assaulted because they didn't have time to get a patient their smoke. There actually have been studies that show smoking is beneficial for schizophrenics. I used to have many a good conversation with patients while they were having a cigarette, not so many when they were craving some nicotine (there were some rules re: number smoked per hour). There is also some research about the health benefits of nicotine and even some here use it for health reasons. I guess really it's just the method of delivery that is the issue unless you are chewing the gum or using the patch.

    I would assume smoking does not make people cold-hearted -- likely that way whether a smoker or not.
    I would assume quitting smoking does not make people pious and judgemental -- likely they were that way to begin with.

    Anyways, my bottom line is that health decisions are our own to make. The only thing I think should be absolutely banned from hospitals is CBT/GET for ME patients.
    rosie26, Valentijn, MeSci and 2 others like this.
  8. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Well , I m chuffed with the NHS and well impressed.

    Sticking with 20/10 :)



    Handing the thread over now as its taken on a life of its own :)

    Has there ever been a smokers/xsmokers/never smoked poll on pheonix rising ?

    Best
    Golden
    :):)
    peggy-sue likes this.
  9. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    cross-posted with kina .

    Thanks for your post.

    Best
    Golden
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  10. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    I will make any visit you ever have to make to hospital a much better experience, Golden. :hug:

    And I don't ever want to have to go anyway....
    And I don't work in one any more, either.:rolleyes:
    golden likes this.
  11. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Thanks, but I feel too set in my ways now. I'd have difficulty adjusting to catering for someone else's needs at close quarters and on a frequent basis. I have enough trouble managing to cater for my own!

    You really must write that book!

    That is so moving.

    But I thought you did have children - the same kind as I have? :cat:
  12. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    sweet :)

    does anyone know how and where to post compliment to the blinkin' NHS ? :)

    Best
    Golden
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  13. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    The article you linked to was about NICE advising NHS service providers to implement such bans. Among other things it says
    And remember that it is a newspaper article, and although the Indy is relatively accurate as newspapers go, it may not have got everything right. Maybe the NHS or NICE websites have info about it?
    golden likes this.
  14. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Had a quick look mesci but then...

    zzzzzzz

    and got bored.
    not found anything so far. just after a compliment box to tick.

    :)
    Best
    Golden
    peggy-sue likes this.
  15. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    But it's not an NHS decision - they have just been advised by NICE.

    This looks like the NICE page about it, but the heading is 'Smoking cessation - acute, maternity and mental health services'. So not about general inpatients for physical illness.
  16. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    MeSci, I used to wear a badge on my lab coat which read; "Babies are only kitten substitutes.":thumbsup:
    But I don't look on the cats as being "children", they're our companions.

    Sort of like having well behaved teenagers, without the hormones, around.:angel:


    And... one does not have to live with one's partner. ;)

    (I just read your word "inpatients" as implants, and wondered what on earth they're going to do to smokers next!)
    MeSci likes this.

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