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2 questions.. lithium gene mutation and 23andME how to use?

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by taniaaust1, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Im positive I have a gene mutation which is causing my body to have no lithium (even with daily lithium orotate supplementation for two years.. my hair tests still doesnt show any lithium so I assume I have a double copy of some gene causing this but what???). It would be very helpful for me to know what this homo mutation is cause it could be affecting other things too.
    ...........

    To try to work out what gene I must have issues with, Ive been looking at bipolar/lithium studies and trying to get my head around how this would affect those who take lithium but are struggling to get my head around what I need to be looking for.. would a gene which stops lithium being expressed in the hair (nil in my hair) make the blood levels high due to not being expelled??? (so would I be looking for a gene which makes lithium more toxic for bipolar people?) or would I be looking for a gene which levels are low everywhere so in bipolar this gene would make more lithium be needed?

    :eek: my brain just isnt being good enough on things to know even what I need to be looking or with studies to work out what double mutation I must have going on here.
    ................................

    Also does anyone know how to study ones raw DNA data at 23andME .. I think that can be somehow done there if one knows what mutation one is looking for???? Maybe I can try to seek out the SNIPS which affect lithium treatment in bipolar (Ive come across a couple) to try to find out if I can see mutations in those in my raw data, IF I can work out HOW to do this.
    helen1 likes this.
  2. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Ive now worked out how to search throu the raw data at 23andME . Im still confused at the rest so dont really know what SNP I should be seeking out.
  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Some possibilities are CREB1, MAPK1 though MAPK15, GPX3, PRKCA, IGFBP4, IRF, FGFR1, INHA, GRIN1, and DLG4.

    You can see the chromosome and location of each gene by searching in the top box at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/gene/ . Then find the human version, and scroll down to the 2nd section called "Genomic context" and that shows the chromosome and locations. Then you can look up the range in your 23andMe, where they'll all be listed together and in order.
    taniaaust1 and helen1 like this.
  4. taroki

    taroki Senior Member

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    Just curious what symptoms are you experiencing with the lack of lithium and how do you know you have a gene mutation causing this? I have bipolar as well (type 2) but it improved after a gut detox.
  5. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    Hi :)
    Are you still persuing this angle? I'm curious to your answers to Taroki.

    I think lithium is important in various cascades of processes. Especially in connection to those using Progesterone. Of which the Methylation-cycle is one... meaning prog. does things on a very basic level. As does Lithium.

    My symptoms of Lithium deficiency are the same sadness and wiredness Progesterone-deficiency gives with an added signature of knówing my life is useless. Yes, when I start dissing my existence with logical arguments it's lithium shortage.
    It lifts with supplementation every (!) time. Which still boggles me after years of supplementing. How one nutritional thing can mess with the head/spirit so forcefully.
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  6. taroki

    taroki Senior Member

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    Hmmm ... well, I have tried Lithium Orotate for a short while and did not notice anything different. My boyfriend on the other hand tried it and immediately noticed his "negative thoughts" and anger symptoms much worse. I think my bipolar symptoms are much more stable now after parasite killing, gut detox, and MethylB12 supplementation. In fact I haven't been hypomanic or depressed for many months already.

    I am seeing another naturopath next week. Hopefully he can give me some insight on what else I should be taking.
  7. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    interesting! I would love to learn from you.
    I did not react well to Orotate. I'm taking Biotics Li-Zyme
  8. taroki

    taroki Senior Member

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    Sure, I just found out I am low in lithium from a recent hair test. I am now taking 2 x 5mg lithium orotate to see if it helps (nothing so far! maybe i need to increase dosage?)
  9. Journeyman

    Journeyman

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    I'm quite interested in seeing what responses might be forthcoming on this one because looking at both yourself and a number of other responders already in this thread i notice we all have that fairly rare ++ mutation for VDR TAQ. Now it might mean nothing, but I also notice you have many of the same detox panel mutations as myself which perhaps points to a broader genetic type from which other conclusions might be able to be drawn (see the Adamo Genotype theory) I've been taking Lithium and notice slight improvement in mood (2 weeks of supplementation now) and would love to know what the relevant genes are beyond any doubt...

    Best of luck!
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  10. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I dont know what symptoms Im getting from having no lithium but I have had a ton of unusual mood issues which who knows could be related to the deficiency eg major mood issues to my insulin issues (eat wrong and I can get suicidal or end up in trouble with the police) and severe PMDD (Ive hit strangers due to it eg a salesperson coming to my door) ...

    As I know having no lithium showing up in my body isnt about diet (as Ive supplemented too and it still doesnt show).. it MUST be genetic (unless something is abnormally using up all my lithium..but then if that is happening and is related to ME/CFS, why arent others getting this issue?) .. anyway.. a genetic thing causing the lithium issue is the only thing which makes sense.
  11. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    WoolPipi, Ive heard of many who say they showed up being deficienct in lithium and then taking the dietary supplement of it really got rid of their mood issues. So Im sure me showing none in my body is probably a bad thing (even if supplementation dont help..but then if it dont even then go showing up in my body even then.. no wonder the supplementation for me doesnt change anything. I probably need to register it being in my bodies tissues etc before it has a chance of helping).

    Very interesting what you said about progesterone and lithium..as I have hormonal issues around progesterone and estrogen balance and are estrogen dominant (I have PCOS).

    Im sure the lithium thing is part of my puzzle I need to somehow sort or counteract.
  12. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Ive found with some minerals it can take 2-3 months before I suddenly have a postive mood shift which on retesting was certainly due to them (its like that for me with calicum which I was taking for the PMDD.. very severe form of PMS).

    Ive read thou in the past here that a couple of people noticed the effect from lithium orotate within a week.
  13. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    umm very interesting.. yeah you, me, taroki and Woolpiki all have VDR TAQ.. very interestingly double copies of the mutation too ..thanks greatly for pointing that out, you could be onto something.

    (Im going to look up how uncommon exactly it is now)
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
  14. taroki

    taroki Senior Member

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    hmmm ... that's interesting. So I should probably take for a month then to see if I notice anything. I am off lithium orotate once again (I give up easily if i don't notice any difference).
  15. WoolPippi

    WoolPippi Senior Member

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    I think vitD3, Lithium and progesterone are all tied together in one of the first tiers of the methylation cycle: the citric acid cycle. This is the very basic fuel factory of every cell.

    I have a muation for all 3 elements. (VDR Taq ++ makes my body somewhat blind to vitD3; CBS +- siphones away Lithium before I'm done with it and estrogen dominance takes up all my progesterone. )

    Together they frustrate the basic function of my every cell, causing inbalances body wide, which in turn cause moodswings.
    But I think it starts with suboptimal function at cell level. That's why we're talking dietary Lithium here, not the psychiatric drug.

    Many other mutations or burdens could frustrate at cell level and add to each individual puzzle. For example, I find molybdelum and selenium and jodium necessary. I need to run screaming from anything lead, aluminium or sugary. I've noticed I am verrrry sensitive compared to others (thank you MAO A++). This sensitivity makes that I feel the effect from Lithium within 20 minutes of taking half a pill (Biotics Li-zyme forte). Or when I take progesteron cream (npc): effect the second it touches my skin. The second!
    So for each of us it will differ, depending on personal signature.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013

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