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*2 new* letters, Myra McClue, Annette Whittemore

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by VillageLife, May 5, 2010.

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  1. Advocate

    Advocate Senior Member

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    I agree with Adam, Parvo and Flybro.

    I do not like interference by Kurt and Martlett in what I see as discussions and arguments that will resolve without their involvement. I learn a lot from those arguments.

    I do not like what I see as moderators' attacks on Gerwyn--such as the denigration of Gerwyn's university degree by Kurt (since removed).

    As for the shadowy complainers who give license to moderators to censor or shut down discussions, who are they? Shouldn't the accused know who their attackers are?

    And why are the complainers even reading the discussions they try to shut down? Why don't they start their own discussions? I hereby register a complaint about the complainers.

    This is not Yahoo. On Yahoo discussion groups, one has to go to the trouble of scrolling by posts that are of no interest or that one finds offensive. It's so easy on this forum to simply choose a different thread.

    Shutting down this thread would create a lot of ill will.

    Advocate
  2. oerganix

    oerganix Senior Member

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    I too am offended by threats to close threads....for?...bickering???

    I'd really like to have a clear idea of what this forum is for. Is it to provide a platform for discrediting WPI and XMRV? If so, I'd like to go somewhere else and take Gerwyn with me. If not, I'd like to know that those who politely create this sort of pseudo-issue can be challenged here without the challenger being ganged up on.

    It takes two to create a pissing contest and the other contestant has added nothing to the conversation on the science or the research of XMRV or CFS/ME in general. He constantly threatens to quit the conversation, but only if he gets the last word. I don't see a "feud" here, just another attempt, in a line of them, to paint Gerwyn as the bad guy while giving the provocateur a pass.

    I fervently wish that Gerwyn would just ignore him, let him have the last word and never respond to him again. And I think I understand why he doesn't.

    So I'm asking you, Gerwyn, to read the weasle words of psuedo-politeness that this forum apparently requires and use them in your posts. Please saturate your posts with appeasing obsequiousness, and beat-around-the-bush phrases so as not to offend those with tender sensitivies to the point that they tattle to momma, leaving out their own provocation and participation in the feud. Or better yet, just ignore them after you've made your points.

    In the meantime, the most obvious solution for those who are so offended by the bickering: IGNORE the poster or the thread. Since that is apparently not going to happen, those of us who notice and are offended by the provocateuring need to start complaining to the moderators everytime we see it, since it appears they are keeping "score" and the home team is losing.

    Just as was done in the 3 Failure To Find studies, some people are having trouble distinguishing quantity from quality, so we need to get some quantity going...how unfortunate this kind of game playing has to happen here.
  3. shrewsbury

    shrewsbury member

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    Adam, parvo, flybro, Advocate, oerganix and jace (jace, where did your great post go?)

    Thank you for clearly expressing some of my opinions. I have started to write on this so many times and had to give up

    I tend to be one of the "nicey-nices", and I have a hard time with conflict. However, I have a much harder time with censorship as a solution. We are all adults here.

    Here's some wisdom from my favourite t-shirt:

    [​IMG]
  4. Lily

    Lily *Believe*

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    I certainly have to agree, and I thought I said as much an hour ago, but do not see the post now.
  5. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    I got it about Gerwyn's gender. I hope HE didn't mind my turning him into a she for a while :)
  6. awol

    awol *****

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    I think we need not worry anymore about the gender thing. Gerwyn seems quite secure in his femininity. ;)
  7. Advocate

    Advocate Senior Member

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    No problem, Cort. Otis already cleared things up.

    Advocate
  8. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Here we go again 'pissing rubbish'!
  9. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    And here we are again.....
  10. awol

    awol *****

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    I think Gerwyn, despite gender ambiguity, is CLEARLY a Brit. Offensive language needs to be understood in a cultural context... I think (s)he might not even realize this could be offensive. ;)
  11. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    I agree that those comments went too far and I removed them from my post.
  12. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    We do protect people privacy who post 'bad posts'; we certainly don't agree with all of them - we take a look at them and try and decide if we should try and do something. Sometimes we don't have the manpower to do anything. Sometimes moderators just don't want to get involved quite frankly :). Maybe we should take a break on this issue....most of Gerwyn's posts are just fine..lets not overdo this.
  13. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    This too I have heard - that the Brits have a more 'lively' style of discourse. Perhaps similar to New Yorkers. I vividly remember someone from New York asking me if I had a stick up my ass once. I was like what did you say? She said I just asked you if you had a stick up your ass? You look like you were bothered by something. :)

    So we have take our cultural differences into account as well; people from the US need to adopt a bit to a more vivid speaking style and the Brits probably could tone it down a little at times.
  14. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    I don't think we're asking for weasel words of politeness but I agree with the jist of it - if someone can't reply to a post without getting personal then try to move onto some other topic. For sure that's not easy.

    We are not keeping score - there is no blackboard with a number of tics on with someone's name on them - we all have CFS - we don't have the energy (or the interest) in doing that - we just take them as they come. This is a small group of moderators who handle post reports as best they can. We don't get good post reports; if we did I'm sure Gerwyn would have many'good post' reports as well.
  15. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Flybro I would hate to see you go. You're a valuable member of this forum but Martlett is trying to do what our moderators are supposed to do - which is keep threads from getting personal and argumentative. I understand that its upsetting to see someone come zooming down so to speak - it conjures up all sorts of things but this thread is receiving quite a few complaints and our feeling in general is that they are legitimate and we're trying to work this out as best we can.

    Meanwhile we have gotten way off of XMRV...I hope we can get back to that.....
  16. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

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    OMG! That would be so awful, wouldn't it! Doesn't bear thinking about, really.

    I sometimes wonder if I hang around (when I used to hang around) with extraordinarily vivid characters because Gerwyn's style and passion would not go amiss in my old crowd. None would be taking offence or threatening to go home because someone else spoke with emphasis or, when provoked - whether intentionally or not, with impatience. One of my very good friends, an internationally respected journalist, is not above standing on the table if he thinks it will make a point.

    I am far more worried about manipulation than any honest expression of ideas and opinion.

    Those who are hitting the report button and writing all those complaining PMs are making a very eloquent statement now... with their silence. I think the community has spoken and PR would do well to listen.

    Peace out,
    Koan
  17. Advocate

    Advocate Senior Member

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    Cort,

    It's okay if threads get argumentative. It's illuminating if threads get argumentative. We are arguing about life-and-death matters here!

    Advocate
  18. Martlet

    Martlet Senior Member

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    Argument is not problematic. Getting personal is. When people sign up to join this forum, as with many others, they are presumably aware of and agree to the rules and that breaches of these rules will be moderated. Now, some might not think that the PMs and reported posts we receive daily are a big deal, but these members who send them are just as important as the rest and we have to spend hours investigating whether or not their complaints are valid. As for telling people who their "accusers" are, I remember that one member let it be known that they had reported a post and that poor member was hounded until they barely dared show their face.

    I now see that not only has Kurt intervened on several occasions, but so has Cort, as well as myself. With that in mind, I am closing this discussion until Admin and moderators have reached a conclusion that takes into account the feelings/state of health of ALL our members and not just the few who do most posting.
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