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2 more positive XMRV studies (prostate cancer) plus a new Silverman/Klein XMRV study

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by eric_s, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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  2. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    And again it's found much more in the patients than in the controls.
    This contaminant should be a nurse - it likes so much to be close to sick people...
  3. shannah

    shannah Senior Member

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    ... and another negative study in Retrovirology out of Japan.

    http://www.retrovirology.com/content/8/1/20

    Conclusion
    Our data show no solid evidence of XMRV infection in any of the three populations tested, implying that there is no association between the onset of PC or CFS and XMRV infection in Japan. However, the lack of adequate human specimens as a positive control in Ab screening and the limited sample size do not allow us to draw a firm conclusion.
  4. Chris

    Chris Senior Member

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    Doesn't the Silverman / Klein paper get us closer to a piciture of just how XMRV can be a true pathogen? I think it may represent something of a breakthrough study, small though it is. I feel a bit cheered! "suggests a profound effect of the virus on fundamental cellular physiology and inflammation. These findings could be relevant to the possible pathogenic effects on [sic--for "of"] XMRV in prostate cancer." OK, not yet CFS, and "could be," "possible," but.. Chris
  5. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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  6. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    This is one of the enticing things about XMRV. Dusty Miller has data on its effects on nerve cells, it may be found in B cells - which may be a key source of mischief in CFS...and now this study shows that if you infect a cell line with it that cell line triggers activity in the gene associated with a major, major player in inflammation...

  7. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    As one of my heroes would say or rather, not exactly same words, hehe "The game is afoot, Watson!"
  8. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    Crazy, huh... I can't believe this is a coincidence anymore. Maybe it would be interesting to find out a bit more about who makes the decisions at Retrovirology, who owns it etc. I wonder what will happen with Retrovirology in case XMRV were to be confirmed as an infectious virus present in the population. Will they close? Change the name??
  9. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    It's almost cruel. Wasn't there work showing XMRV reacting with EBV?

    There are so many things about XMRV which make it seem plausible as a cause for CFS. Other than the growing evidence that there's no correlation and it's all just contamination! Hopefully we'll hear something solid, one way or the other, from the BWG or Lipkin soon.
  10. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    I think so. I'm no scientist, so i might be wrong, but i feel that with the evidence we have up to now, it's more or less clear that XMRV really is a virus capable of infecting a host and the positive findings could not be explained by contamination with any sort of mouse material. And the virus seems to have some effects on the host, so it seems to be a serious thing, regardless of where it arose or wheter there is an association with ME/CFS or not. So i think there should be an interest to get to the bottom of it anyway, especially with people working in labs :eek: and there will be more studies.
  11. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    Of course this study was probably submitted quite some time before the CROI, so we can't know for sure how Silverman and Klein feel about things now. But the fact that the journal still published those studies seems to indicate that they don't think it's clear that all the positive findings in humans are explained by contamination.

    Does anyone know who is in control after the submission of a paper? Would the authors have the right to withdraw the paper?
  12. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    I think any one of, the authors, the journal, or the gov't, could each have withdrawn the paper.
  13. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    Is there any way the US government could prevent the publication of a paper that does not contain any illegal content by a privately owned journal? They would need a law that allows them to do that, at least under the constitutions i know about. Maybe there's a law that would allow for that if the paper would pose a danger to national security or something like that...
  14. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Yes, typically the authors (or their organizations) or the journal can withdraw a paper. If the latest research clearly made the paper obsolete/incorrect that would probably (not certainly) have been done.
  15. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    I don't think so. However, significant pressure can probably be brought to bear on the journal in question, so while the gov't may not be able to absolutely prohibit it, it may be able to effectively prevent publication.
  16. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    While I'm no fan of Retrovirology, this paper does not disturb me as much as others have. This is a properly written conclusion. The parts I bolded show that they understand and clearly state the limits of their research, and their conclusion does not extrapolate beyond the data.

    I have no problem with a paper that looks for XMRV infection and doesn't find it as long as they clearly identify their sample set and methodology and keep their conclusions within the bounds of their data. Plenty of labs are not going to find XMRV -- possibly because it isn't there, or their sample set is not good, or their methodology doesn't work, or a number of other reasons. That's to be expected. It helps us clarify the limits that exist for finding XMRV.

    It's the garbage that uses a terrible sample set and unproven methods, and then conclude that because they didn't find it with their method it isn't there that bother me. :rolleyes: Honestly. I wouldn't accept that from an undergraduate. Maybe medical research is much sloppier with scientific rigor, but I hope not.
  17. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    has WPI posted any info on cytokine studies between xmrv positive versus negative people, surely this would help prove a point.
  18. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    I think they said they have done that kind of study/studies, but it has not been published so far. They said the journals are very reluctant to publish their studies.
  19. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    I find it helps to open one's eyes Cort. Things will seem less dark that way.
  20. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    I realldy doubt that Silverman and Klein think XMRV is all contamination. So they had 22RV1 in a freezer in their laboratory - but did it infect samples taken for the WPI, NCI, Singh's study, Germans, Japanese, De-Meileir study, clinical samples checked by VIP Dx and RED Labs, samples checked at the IrisCaixa in spain etc etc etc? Most of these did not work with 22RV1 ever.

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