greenshots
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Based on the info I got from watching the Sweden videos, I believe that in the first 6 months everyone got the same treatment. I guess Rich could disprove if he's around. Rich?
They did start out with the same treatment but could not ultimately tolerate the same doses so many went down on their dosing or changed the schedule (every other day, etc).
Well, this is what one would expect from any intervention, no?
Yes, but my point wasn't to criticize the fact that everyone wasn't instantly cured, it was to point out that your comment about how his study showed that individual treatment really wasn't "important" since many patients did ok, isn't really accurate. Individual treatment matters alott and I believe this study, like every other, demonstrated this important nuance by demonstrating once again, that we don't all respond the same at all. Just as many who started out on the original protocol had to change their doses and timing (and perhaps even some aspects of the treatment since he implied not all tolerate the neurological health foundation Yasko makes) so did many have to specifically tailor it to them after the 6 month mark. A few patients were essentially cured and returned to the land of the living and work while others had a variety of responses. Some had less recovery than expected, some had more than expected, one went to Mayo (due to family pressure) despite doing very well, and some had apparently adapted a little too well to feeling good so that they were overly biased and didn't seem to rate things as they should have based on how sick they were before. To my of thinking, this doesn't reveal conformity but individuality.
Ah! Remember when I told you I had a somewhat autistic brain? I was not joking! Things for me tend to be much more black/white than grey. I'm an applied science dude, not a poet!
Well, 23andme covers at least 24 out of 32. Not too bad for the price I paid, considering that I get access to almost 1 million SNP's. For example, thanks to 23andme, I know I have a homozygous screw up in the PON1 gene (cannot tolerate organophosphates/pesticides - all food is organic from now on). I also know that I am heterozygous for a variation in the PRF1 gene, leading to decreased perforin effectiveness.
I agree, some of it is intriguing but truthfuly, even without that genetic defect thru 23&me, you could have a cytochrome 450 defect and would have a hard time processing pesticides anyway. Its generally a good policy to eat as much organic as you can and when finances are limited, eating organic out of the "Dirty Dozen" will reduce your intake by about 80-85%. However, the genes they do miss just also happen to be many of the most severe on Yasko's list. The ACAT, SHMT, NOS, ACE, and others are fairly important, at least to her mind, just as the MTHFR A1298C is more severe to her way of thinking than the C677T.
Also, good methylation turns on & off many of the less desired genes. As my doc explains it, you could have 4-5 genes for liver cancer and though she'd want to know that, she would be focused on the genes that would help shut these down anyway. 23&me provides asolutely no guidance on treatment whatsoever. I understand they can't for liability reasons but it still puts us in a conundrum of knowing potentially scary news with nothing to do about it. Then you're left scouring sites like this and spreadsheets like the one posted and you hope & pray you translated them correctly but there's really no way to know for sure!
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I like to have a way to address things to the best of my ability and I think I'm probably not alone here. I have all of them now, 23&me, Yasko's panel, and the methylation panel and frankly, I still have benefited from the Yasko panel the most. And I know many others who feel the same way because they can more accurately discern the differences. But then again, I/we have an incredible practitioner who fully gets all this stuff so I had a decided advantage.
Hey, some people believe that laughter is therapeutic. I'll PM you the bill for the treatment!
I enjoy laughter and also debate so I would love to be able to debate with you in person but distance means the internet and here we lose body language, which is so crucial for understanding that this isn't rancorous but truly amiable. On the other hand, if you have more of an autistic mind, my facial expressins would probably be lost on you, much as they were on my husband's family until we learned to communcate better
Are you familiar with prediction markets? For example, Intrade currently shows "Barack Obama to be re-elected President in 2012" at 59.9%. This is a result of "collective wisdom". However, there is no consensus.
I also remember that things didn't work that well for Gore and many others who counted their chickens before their eggs were hatched. And when we are talking about how to treat people based on cookie cutter patterns, its even less concrete.
Nothing in life is deterministic. The best we can do is try to achieve outcomes that, on average, are better than the alternatives. This is why the probabilistic "collective wisdom" is not only sufficient but, in my opinion, the only possibility.
Yes, its true that there are no guarantees or promises in life and all you can do is the best you can. But that truly scares me that you find "collective wisdom" to be enough or the only possibility? Life has so many variables and there are so many roads to take that I could never accept those kind of limitations. I do not find this satisfactory at all. But I also accept that its your body and therefore you get to make your choices accordingly. But in the future, this will help me since I now know that when I comment on a specific individual's situation and you correct me, providing generalizations, I will remember that you only see black and white and therefore aren't capable of seeing other methods or paths.
But please consider that collective wisdom can also backfire as it did in Nazi Germany or communist Russia, or Pul Pot's regime, or any number of examples I could give. We are supposedly the superior species above all other animals because of things such as our sense of individualism and our ability to problem solve. Sure, I can make these decisions based on collective wisdom and fall into a horrible rut as so many others have or I can use my "superior" human brain to think out what might be best for Angela, the indiviual. Fortunately, I have learned from collective wisdom but its usually what NOT to do!
This discussion is starting to sound seriously off-topic and to be honest with you, I don't know if it adds anything of value to the group. Maybe we should just agree to disagree on the "collective wisdom" thing and move on?
I disagree here and will end this topic upon responding. I think the division on this site comes down to those who are lumpers or splitters. The lumpers do what they do best and lump everyone in one of two groups while the splitters yearn for the shades of gray so that can apply targeted, individualized treatments and avoid taking things that may harm them physically or emotionally. This post is also about seeing the value in specific tests so that people can make informed choices. I want to point out here that you don't have the benefit of having them all, nor do you have a provider who understands it, yet you presume to know which tests are best for others and suggest that the collective wisdom can guide someone like Determined or others like him/her, of which treatments to take when they've already shown that they can't tolerate most of what the group does.
I promise that I'm not tryng to be contankerous here or instigating an argument or attacking you nor do I have even a trace of anger or negative feelings while I write this but I do think I've made a valid point. One that I feel had been sorely missing while my brain was still out to lunch this past few months. But now I'm awake and I want to make sure that everyone knows its okay to be completely individualized and not lump yourselves into one group or another. Its even ideal to start at fragments instead of capsules. You are not alone, there are more of us out there only some don't speak up. But it is ok. You don't have to run out and take loads or potassium or Methyl B12 or active folate unless you honestly feel they are the right treatments for you. Certainly listen to the collective wisdom and respect the advice of senior researchers or members who have exeriences we simply don't but please be aware that your body is also entirely different and you may want to treat it accordingly. And, as Nanonug pointed out, it isn't all about genes since my living on a farm next to mass pesticide spraying and tons of dental amalgams has undoubtedly led me to where I am today. Just as your own infections and toxic exposures have affected each of you.
Thank you for the opportunity to debate, Nanonug, I appreciate it. I do value your input and thoughts on the matter. As to what we are adding of value here? why, were adding to at least 2 sides of the collective wisdom
Sincerely,
Angela