1. Patients launch a $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Time Change Equals Jet Lag, ME/CFS Style
Jody Smith marvels at how much difference one hour can make to those with ME/CFS, as much of the world has endured The Time Change in recent weeks ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

13th week of Valcyte

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by undcvr, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

    Messages:
    501
    Likes:
    18
    Thanks for the tip on artichoke.I have been taking Milk thistle almost regularly for the last few months with no positive effect. I am also threonine deficient . Threonine is needed for liver detox and fatty liver. I am now taking 10 g threonine, 1 g methionine, and will soon add some choline, inositol,alpha ketoglucarate ,and EGCG to my supplements.

    Best
  2. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    113
    NYC
    Artichoke and Milk Thistle are actually related. Lots of pple recommend MT for the liver and that it helps with detox. That is all great, fine and dandy but the point is what to do with all that toxins once they are treated. The liver cannot move them out, somehow it has lost that mechanism and MT does not help it do that. Artichoke on the otherhand does, it helps the liver produce more bile and moving bile out means moving toxins out. (Same for Dandelion, Swedish Bitters, the bitter principles from raw salads) or anything that helps you produce more bile. My Artichoke is a std extract so I like it much better. But taking anything that helps you produce more bile in general will help you feel better.

    There was a lady I know at a Lyme support group who was diagnosed with Lyme in the early stages. Somehow she stumbled onto eating Artichokes regularly and says that she is almost back to well now.

    Another thing to do is to look at the color of your stools. If they are pale and not dark you are not producing enuf bile. You will notice that this paleness coincides with times of illness and stress so treat that immediately.
    vli likes this.
  3. mellster

    mellster Marco

    Messages:
    787
    Likes:
    157
    San Francisco
    I agree on most of undrcvrs assessments, I noticed even before I got sick that I started sweating less and instead feel more uncomfortable (pins and needles) until I reached the sweating point during exercise. Prior to that I used to sweat like an animal and felt great. I never lost the ability to sweat but it got somewhat reduced and I am currently experiencing a slight increase again. Also the bitters are essential and I am not following this enough, I used to drink 3 sips of andrographis tea (king of bitters and causing a gag reflex for quite a while until you get used it) which was the only known almost instant remedy to stomach cramps and bloating. Also my stools were slightly pale and sometimes undigested. As they got better and gained color again, I started experiencing recovery, though I somewhat stopped around 80% as I have not been diligent enough due to time constraints. I really have the feeling that if you want to beat this entirely it is like taking on a second job but it is likely worth it.
  4. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    113
    NYC
    Only most ?!?!?! We have to talk ... soon, about the other 0.00001% you disagree with.
  5. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

    Messages:
    501
    Likes:
    18
    Undcvr, My stool has never been pale, but I have had a white coated tongue for the last 2 years and estrogen dominance causing uterine fibroids which get bigger every year. My doctor said the white tongue has nothing to do with candida, and he was right .... I got no benefit from Diflucan , candex, .... I think liver is the root cause of all these symptoms in me.

    Mellster, I have tried androgaphis a couple of times, but never noticed a difference. I have two bottles of genitan root and buplureum (chinese bitter) too. They have not helped me either. I think I need to supplement with a lot of things to be able to detox properly.
  6. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    113
    NYC
    Did you rule out EBV hairy something something for white thrush on tongue yet ? I find bitters mild in terms of their action on bile generally. That was why I started taking std artichoke extract.

    I think that estrogen dominance can benefit from DIM. Did you ever try taking that ?
  7. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

    Messages:
    501
    Likes:
    18
    I never knew about EBV hairy tongue. My tongue is definitely hairy as you said, but I have heard people got better with Citrate and AKG as well. I guess trying these two supplements for a couple of weeks is not a bad idea.

    Dim, calcium d glucarate, and indole 3 were ineffective. Soon, I will start taking a low dose Arimidex.
  8. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    113
    NYC
    Hairy Leukoplakia, I used to have that from EBV that was detectable in the blood from a PCR DNA test. That was how I ended up on Valcyte/Famvir/Valtrex. It is caused by a compromised immune system. Back then, not too long ago, everyone thought I had HIV.

    No, no arginine for viruses no AKG. Lysine instead to help the immune system with EBV and HHV6 reactivation. How high was your DIM dosage ? Mine was 3-4 times the recommended to help.
  9. mellster

    mellster Marco

    Messages:
    787
    Likes:
    157
    San Francisco
    Sara, you need to order Andrographis tea from Thailand or somehwhere far east - I think the online store I order it from is called Thai boutique. While I also take Andrographis powder in pill form I never had any benefit for the stomach from it and I don't know how much it stimulates the immune system, it's just a cheaper alternative. But for the stomach you need the tea that is so bitter that it makes you gag if you drink too big of a sip :) But of course everything depends on your underlying causes which may or may not be different.
  10. mellster

    mellster Marco

    Messages:
    787
    Likes:
    157
    San Francisco
    For me it wasn't a hairy tongue but candida in the esophagus that sent me to the HIV test. Then at Holtorf measured EBV antibodies were raised at 2.6 x normal, just below the cutoff of 3 x normal where Montoya recommnends antivirals. My remaining significant issues are gut and muscoskeletal which I don't know whether they are EBV related (titers have come down since) or a subsequently developed issue. I would love it discuss all the detoxing but I have people in my environment who think I can just think it away with positive thoughts and should not dwell in it which gives me the necessary rage to exercise these days ;)
  11. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    113
    NYC
    Doctors are idiots, they shud be the ones telling you this. You shud not be finding out stuff from some random stranger on a free online forum ... :) Just sayin'
  12. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

    Messages:
    501
    Likes:
    18
    Thanks mellster, I will check the online store .
  13. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

    Messages:
    501
    Likes:
    18
    I was taking the recommended dose of DIM and sometimes more.
  14. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    941
    Likes:
    91
    hey undcvr....are you getting your ECGx or whatever in supps or from drinking masses of green tea? Thanks.
  15. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    113
    NYC
    Beyond a Century .com Green Tea Extract 50% EGCG powder. Very bitter when taken in str8 powder form. I have an encapsulator at home.
  16. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    113
    NYC
    I think that during the summer months pple with CFS/ME, Lyme, Candida, FM shud take the chance to go outside and sweat. Detox both oil and water toxins through your skin, take the stress off both your kidneys and liver. And maybe hopefully try to remind or reprogramme your body of what it is like to detox well and efficiently. Of course if it gets too hot forget about it but you would be amazed at how reisistant your body is to breaking into a sweat even in all the heat. That is when you know you shud do it even more. Warmer months is really when all your symptoms shud go into remission.

    Also take the chance to work on your psyche, reminding yourself how hard and how painful the road ahead is to feeling better and mentally preparing yourself for it. As I go though this illness, I am beginning to realise more and more that there is a psychological aspect to it, but not the mainstream nonsense that most ignorant doctors dish out. This is my theory and what I am using to help me recover from it. If I am right I cud possibly be cured from it.

    *Disclaimer: This is not medical advise. I am a random online stranger spouting nonsense every once in awhile on this forum. Feel free to completely ignore me.
  17. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    113
    NYC
    QUESTION:

    I know that after talking to many pple on this thread and forum most pple with CFS/ME or Lyme report that their liver phase I detox is 'off the charts' while their phase II is very slow. This disconnect could be the cause of many of the incompletely treated toxins left around and leaking into the bloodstream to go someplace else. As I understand it some of these intermediates can be even more toxic than if they weren't passed through phase 1 at all.

    Grapefruit juice is a known phase 1 inhibitor and has been shown to specifically slow down certain liver cytochrome enzymes. Could it be as easy as taking grapefruit juice daily (or a few times a day) to slow down your phase 1 so that it gives phase 2 enzymes time to deactivate the intermediate toxins.

    Has anyone ever tried this ? Or at the very least feel better after taking grapefruit juice ?

    Thank you.
  18. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,108
    Likes:
    3,155
    Midwest USA
  19. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    113
    NYC
    I have been knocked down during the recent heatwave in my area and have been trying to pick myself up ever since. This basically means doubling the dosage of of every supplement I am on. Just like the cold winter months I am aware of how sensitive I am to temperature stress when the weather goes wild. Detox engine shuts down and the CFS symptoms start to pile up.

    This summer though I have started something unusual. I have been hanging out in the sauna both at the gym or in my own steam sauna in the shower for awhile everyday. This is not unlike the far IR sauna concept. This is something very difficult to get used to as it basically feels like dying when you are outside in the heat and then dying again in the sauna when after I get in. But it is a one of the few detox processes in my body that I have left to treat, that and lymphatic drainage.

    I am aware of how much this thread has changed since I posted about Valcyte 2 years ago.
  20. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    113
    NYC
    If you believe like I do that this is where all the problems with CFS/ME and FM starts then is migh be an approach that you would like to take too:

    http://balancedconcepts.net/liver_phases_detox_paths.pdf

    It is significantly cheaper that buying supplements targeted at the immune system and which I also believe to me more of a top down approach.

    The liver detox path and the perspiration detox pathway.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page