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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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  1. P

    cancer metabolism, gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell

    Badpack you're showing some things, But I've already covered the things you show me and many more in this thread.
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    Organic Acid Test (OAT) results – do we ALL show the Warburg effect?

    Badpack I would strongly advise against anyone taking anything at this time, could be dangerous . I know you're anxious to try things, as so am I . But Lets look into these further and have some disscussions about potential dangers and side effects before we do.
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    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    Badpack I would strongly advice against trying anything at this time, could be dangerous , lets look into things a little more , before anyone of us tries anything , and have some discussions as well . I know you're anxious to try things , and we will try them , but we need to look at these...
  4. P

    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    JES i'd like you to read my other thread titled - cancer metabolism gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell. Gives a more complete explanation of this mechanism
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    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    Badpack i'd like you to read my other thread ,title '' cancer metabolism gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell''. This mechanism is happening in brain , heart and skeletal muscle of cfs patients, I just said skeletal muscle to keep it simple.
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    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    Badpack, I wrote a more complete explanation , thread title -'' cancer metabolism, gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell '' . This mechanism is happening is muscle, brain, muscle and heart , its a cycle of increased oxidative stress , upregulated antioxidant system...
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    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    sometexan84, gbells. I meant to say nrf2 is high and p53 is low. ( didn't mean to write nfkb )
  8. P

    Obvious Hypotheses may not be Correct

    nevermind
  9. P

    How much dental work have you had done?

    I apologize for earlier. hello vision blue, I need some advice , can you send me message ?
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    cancer metabolism, gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell

    Wishful, I actually believe this mechanism is also happening in the brain. I believe this mechanism is only happening in muscle and brain, because these are highly energetic organs with the potential to generate a lot of oxidative stress, So would require up-regulation of pkm2 to upregulate the...
  11. P

    cancer metabolism, gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell

    sb4 cancer can be caused by genetic mutations or oxidative can cause the genetic mutations. But the mechanism that I speak of in cfs isn't caused by genetic mutations its just a downregulation or upregulation of certain enzymes. Whatever the original trigger for initiating cfs is already long...
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    cancer metabolism, gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell

    Methyl you're getting it a little bit, In healthy people, pkm1 which is normally found in skeletal muscle is always highly active so produces lots of pyruvate but you don't see a lot of lactate build up because pyruvate dehydrogenase is fully active and so is oxidative phosphorylation. In cfs...
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    cancer metabolism, gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell

    sb4 I wasn't suggesting you can get cancer sooner or later, I am suggesting that this is a common mechanism in response to the threat, but it also affects your energy producing pathways. I believe that this mechanism to protect against oxidative stress, happens in all animals and once the threat...
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    ME/CFS stopped with outbreak of autoimmune disease

    jimbo423 I think oxidative stress in the skeletal muscles causes lipid peroxidative, damage to the cell membranes, and this causes the immune response in cfs , but it started with the oxidative stress in the muscles
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    cancer metabolism, gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell

    bensmith , do you have cfs also ? does these ideas make any sense to you , can you follow any of these thoughts ?
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    cancer metabolism, gene expression and enzyme expression in cfs skeletal muscle cell

    COMMON PATHWAYS IN CANCER AND CFS (1) lactate - Lactate levels are high in cancer and cfs . 1. increased lactate secretion by cancer cells sustains non cell autonomous adaptive resistance to MET and EGFR targeted therapies- Moria Apicella 2. Aerobic glycolysis and high level of lactate in...
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    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    Others pointed at oxidative stress while implying an INADEQUATE antioxidant response ,hence they recommend antioxidants as supportive therapy . I'm saying something opposite , that there is oxidative stress but also an UPREGULATION of the antioxidant system that is more than adequate and i'm...
  18. P

    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    no , oxidative stress is higher in cfs muscle cells , but so is an upregulated antioxidant system , so total glutathione will be high in cfs muscle cells . Mononuclear cells and red cells will have lower total glutathione because those cells are inhibited by 2,3dpg . 2,3dpg is released by cfs...
  19. P

    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    I'm gona make a better presentation , and post here on the forum and bring it to a doctor as well , (haven't seen her in maybe five to ten years ). Its slow going right now reading over this stuff . Will include pictures ( diagrams ) this time .
  20. P

    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    Livinglighter i'm looking to test for pkm2 and 2,3dpg .
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    high lactate levels in cfs , aerobic glycolysis

    no be careful , shikonin products may contain other compounds that are toxic can can liver damage , i'll look further into this mechanism first , and hopefully some blood testing , hopefully not have to do muscle biopsy and report back . pkm2 and 2,3dpg is what i'm looking to test for , there...
  22. P

    high lactate levels in cfs , aerobic glycolysis

    No the antioxidant system is already running high . If they check muscle cells they would actually find high total glutathione levels but at the same time high oxidative stress , its a cycle one keeps the other going . Whats getting people confused is they're testing mononuclear cells where the...
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    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    Livinglighter , I didn't wana say the C word (because I didn't wana be sensational but its the same mechanism and the same enzymes involved, whats important for cancer is cell proliferation , cancer produces high amounts of ROS so they upregulate their antioxidant system , and they also depend...
  24. P

    high lactate levels in cfs , aerobic glycolysis

    there was some events intense oxidative stress of long duration . now the cfs patient is stuck in the cycle of high oxidative stress, high antioxidant system upregulation , and aerobic glycolysis . during times of oxidative stress certain antioxidant and glycolytic enzymes are upregulated ...
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    Evidence Based Medicine: Why it matters to be correct in applying it

    the problem with cfs is the actual cause is known , people have theories as to why , so doctors are giving treatments when the cause isn't known ( harder to be effective this) . I've gone from doctor to doctor for the past twenty years , for the last past five years I've been doing my own thing...
  26. P

    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    Wantedalive glycolysis is impaired or inhibited in mononuclear cells . 2.3dpg is inhibiting glycolysis is inhibiting glycolysis in mononuclear cells . But in muscles glycolysis is not inhibited , oxidative phosphorylation is inhibited , cfs patients depend on aerobic glycolysis for our energy...
  27. P

    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    Mohawk i'm also looking blood, serum, or urine testing for PKM2 and 2,3dpg , finding both at the same , together , would add support to my guess . Hopefully these are available commercially and a doctor would be able to order
  28. P

    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    Mohawk good point if true , but I believe all people are capable of getting cfs if the stressors are intense enough and of enough duration . I believe the mechanism that I describe happens in healthy people too , when they demand for antioxidant system , say if healthy people were to run a...
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    Ron Davis study vs Standford study , 2,3dpg

    Ron Davis study showed abnormal impedance , when pyruvate was added they cells behave normally . the Stanford study showed higher than normal atp production through nonmitochondrial pathway (probably glycolysis). I think 2,3 dpg is the difference. Ron Davis study used mononuclear cells in...
  30. P

    i think i figured it out (the cause of cfs ) i will pass on the baton

    no glycolysis is not impaired , at rest the lactate levels are are low , but during physical activity the lacate levels are higher than normal people . if glycolysis was impaired you wouldn't have high lactate levels . It is actually oxidative phosphosphorylation that is inhibited . so we try to...