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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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  1. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    I just remembered - Fred said he took small dose copper from the beginning (3mg in mineral supplement). But it wasn't enough to stop his teeth falling out after he achieved methylation. At that stage he was unaware for too long a time that methylation substantially increased the need for...
  2. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    PS The little blood 'pools' ('leaks' is a good description) vanished after a week or so of copper increase.
  3. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    In my case this happens when my copper goes too low. It happened again just two weeks ago. I was also having stinging and slightly swollen reddish gums. Another copper deficiency sign for me. I have had to go up to 6 x 3mg copper daily, broken into two doses, away from other supplements and...
  4. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    Whatever works for you, but I guess you're aware that Fred advises methylfolate first, then let it get into your bloodstream from your gut (approx 30 minutes). Then put sublingual b12 under top lip (or inject b12). His reasoning is that by doing it this way you allow to folate and b12 to meet...
  5. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    Thanks so much for taking the time to respond, Fred. Very best of luck to you with your oncologist. I'm one of those who needs 20mg daily of lithium orotate. I'm seeing great improvements now after nearly 4 years of lithium orotate. Thanks for leading the way on this. If you get a moment can...
  6. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    I meant to say, in case it's of use to anyone else- I have far less episodes of low folate since I more consciously omitted whey a few weeks ago. Luckily I can tolerate a particular brand of strained protein yoghurt (most of whey removed), a small pot, so I have some calcium in my diet. I can...
  7. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    Is yeast in bread OK? I can't find any gluten-free products without yeast! He mentions 'nutritional yeast' here post #5). Not sure what that is. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/symptoms-by-deadlock-quartet-and-other-nutrients.27482/#post-419216 'Vitamin enriched cereals like Special...
  8. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    Does anybody know which kind of yeast we're supposed to avoid? See Fred's answer to someone below and he's mentioned elsewhere also avoiding added yeast in vitamins. If I have to avoid all yeast (as well as folic, whey, wheat & gluten (coeliac) I'll find it impossible to eat much at all. Fred...
  9. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    I wheeze and cough if anything causes my folate to drop. As soon as I get my folate working again the wheeze and cough disappears fast. Adequate folate is necessary for epithelial lung tissue. For decades I was misdiagnosed and treated for asthma with steroids, inhalers etc. All asthma and cough...
  10. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    I can only give my experience but to be fair others have claimed great benefits from the oils. The b12 powder - if it's Oxford Biosciences, then that's the one I've been using for approx 5 years, at high doses, trying to get as near as possible to Fred's. It always worked for me at those high...
  11. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    Unfortunately I had a bad experience with the b12 oil. I didn't realise at the time but I went into severe methyltrap for several months while using it. I needed the huge dose injections to keep the blood level up. The oils didn't get the level up where I needed it. Having said that, the oil...
  12. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    I had more muscle wasting on left side especially around left hip. It's slowly improving, especially over last few months. Before I started the protocol I had agonising sciatic nerve pain from just below that area and shooting down my leg into my foot. It was one of the first nerve pains to...
  13. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    Any time I increased any supplement I needed more potassium, every single item that caused healing increased potassium need. Without enough potassium my b12 and folate wouldn't work properly. That's just my experience. You said somewhere you don't need potassium. My husband never needed...
  14. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    PS Just found this. If you scroll through Fred's reply he says some folk need mcgs of Li and some need mgs up to 20mg. https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-for-an-electrolyte-imbalance-person-to-recover/answer/Fred-Davis-7?ch=10&oid=308168034&share=04b70a80&srid=zGyVr&target_type=answer
  15. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    Yep, I break it into 2 doses of 10mg, started with smaller doses. But I vary it now & skip doses here and there since reading how Fred did that to encourage more Li receptors. Same with b12. Do bear in mind I may need more lithium than you due to genetics or environment- I just mentioned in...
  16. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    Again, please test for iron (sorry for nagging, but I'm nervous around iron & copper!). I took a risk taking small-dose iron in presence of elevated ferritin (low rbc & other iron markers). It was worth it and copper wouldn't work at all without it for a full year. Not sure why. No iron at all...
  17. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    Holy grail indeed. The elevated ferritin and low rbc and iron readings puzzled me for a decade. There were no inflammation markers so it didn't match with anaemia of chronic disease. It was a combination of things that fixed it - obviously I got methylation going first with the 'deadlock...
  18. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    I edited above to correct name: Advanced Research is the brand (dr nieper mentioned on label) and it's 120mg lithium orotate, 4.6mg elemental. At the time I bought it I was totally confused and had to read around online, and in the end decided Fred must have inadvertently typed it wrong way...
  19. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    I read it the other way around. For example I never bought the Advanced Research brand because it said 120mg. Then I read further and realised it was same as 4.6mg elemental. Another example: I have an old bottle of Vital Nutrients Lithium (Orotate) 20mg per serving which I used to split in...
  20. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    PS Fred specifically mentioned molybdenum. Apparently it tends to go low around the same time as copper does. I take Solgar Molybdenum 150mcg along with all my minerals (except copper & lithium) twice daily with meals. I hope to lower some of these high doses soon.
  21. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    I was OK with chelated copper and Solaray copper citrate but I eventually switched to buying Sebacate because it suited my husband better (he needed tiny amounts compared to me). The burning feet (not fingers) you mentioned happened to me too but only after 2 weeks from starting copper. I began...
  22. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    PS The lithium was a gradual titration. And like you I began copper after I had been taking lithium for a good while because the copper doesn't work without enough lithium. Have you been taking lithium for a while?
  23. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    Could be light exposure, I wondered about that alright. I'm fed up about it if it's the case because it's horrendously expensive and difficult to prove. But apart from that don't the lithium receptors in kidneys & liver help to retain injected b12 for longer? I'm sure I read it on one of Fred's...
  24. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    I've always thought he meant 20mg daily (gradual titration) of elemental lithium split into two separate doses of 10mg each. I started with Swanson Lithium orotate 5mg capsules split in two. The 5mg is elemental lithium. I'm now taking 10mg twice daily. I guess it would be considered micro...
  25. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    You too @reallyconfused Take care. Ah, yes, I'd forgotten all b12 is the same after homeostasis. Thanks for reminding me. Something to hope for. Yes, indeed hope we all get there soon.
  26. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    PS I didn't realise there was another user called 'Athene' when I signed up. It was the first name that came to mind. So then I added an asterisk after mine to differentiate us. I'm Athene* just in case there's a mix up.
  27. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    Yes, that one, or the Solgar chelated one is tolerable for me. If sebacate I take 3mg x 5 daily (remember this is not without testing! Test every 3 months if taking copper). First dose 3 x 3mg then later in day 2 x 3mg. I take them as Fred advised - away from anything else, and separate...
  28. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    No problem @reallyconfused I wouldn't be here today without the help of others on this forum, particularly Fred. Yes re copper it was just as Fred explained, in my case anyway. I would love to get tested for Cblc disease- the disease that Fred thinks is most likely the cause of his problems...
  29. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    PS @reallyconfused I'll edit above. The B Right is Nicotinic Acid. Everything else I said stands.
  30. Athene*

    THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

    @Methyl90 you asked me somewhere about migraine. I was never prone to them but if I go into a very severe methyltrap, which doesn't happen anymore (fingers crossed), then I get a blinding headache with vomiting. It happened after exercise; or when I tried adding dibencozide in the early days...