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New Scientist: Metabolic switch may bring on chronic fatigue syndrome

Dx Revision Watch

Suzy Chapman Owner of Dx Revision Watch
Messages
3,061
Location
UK
Interesting - I look forward to seeing if this turns up in the print version on Thursday.

For all that there's the odd bit of "there might yet be a psychological component" (which seems obligatory in the UK), this is a very long way off the model of our disease that the BPS crowd has been pushing so aggressively, and is very much against the model put forward in PACE.

Given that there was an editorial only a few days ago in the New Scientist mentioning unfavourably the lack of open data in PACE, I hope this marks a new approach to ME/CFS by the New Scientist and demonstrates that someone has got through to them about the realities of the situation.

Page 10, edition 18 February 2017

Metabolism linked to chronic fatigue [sic]

Andy Coghlan
 
Messages
6
I came across this article recently and I was wondering, has anyone tried to do a high carbohydrate diet for an extended period of time to see if their symptoms improve? If carbohydrate metabolism really is a factor, then maybe increasing overall carb consumption for a long time can start getting the body into that mode of energy-metabolism?

A lot of the effects this study noted remind me of Euthyroid Sick Syndrome/ NTIS. When someone doesn't get enough carbs/calories, the body goes into a fat-metabolism and protein catabolism mode to cope with the stress of not having enough fuel. Apparently when you add carbs back in after that, it takes a bit of time to improve carb metabolism back to the level it was before to restore thyroid health. I wonder if a similar thing is happening here? Of course I'm sure it's more complicated with ME but I wonder if it could help?
 

Kati

Patient in training
Messages
5,497
I came across this article recently and I was wondering, has anyone tried to do a high carbohydrate diet for an extended period of time to see if their symptoms improve? If carbohydrate metabolism really is a factor, then maybe increasing overall carb consumption for a long time can start getting the body into that mode of energy-metabolism?

A lot of the effects this study noted remind me of Euthyroid Sick Syndrome/ NTIS. When someone doesn't get enough carbs/calories, the body goes into a fat-metabolism and protein catabolism mode to cope with the stress of not having enough fuel. Apparently when you add carbs back in after that, it takes a bit of time to improve carb metabolism back to the level it was before to restore thyroid health. I wonder if a similar thing is happening here? Of course I'm sure it's more complicated with ME but I wonder if it could help?
In my views, it’s not about the diet.
 
Messages
6
Well, I don't mean that it's a cause or "cure" (if there's such a thing), I was just wondering if it could help alleviate symptoms the way therapeutic doses of supplements do for some
 

ukxmrv

Senior Member
Messages
4,413
Location
London
I came across this article recently and I was wondering, has anyone tried to do a high carbohydrate diet for an extended period of time to see if their symptoms improve? If carbohydrate metabolism really is a factor, then maybe increasing overall carb consumption for a long time can start getting the body into that mode of energy-metabolism?

I do know of PWME who have existed on a diet high in carbs (i.e. toast) in desperation purely because it was the cheapest and easiest way to feed themselves. They didn't have any improvement in their overall health sadly.
 

Kati

Patient in training
Messages
5,497
The problem here is that several teams (Davis, Armstrong, Hanson) have shown that we are utilizing amino acids for energy and our glucose utilization is broken. If you increase the amount of carbs in your diet, it might simply mean you have even less ability to make precious ATP because that system is broken. It means you would need to reduce the amount of protein which would make you feel worse because you are cutting your energy source.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
The problem here is that several teams (Davis, Armstrong, Hanson) have shown that we are utilizing amino acids for energy and our glucose utilization is broken. If you increase the amount of carbs in your diet, it might simply mean you have even less ability to make precious ATP because that system is broken. It means you would need to reduce the amount of protein which would make you feel worse because you are cutting your energy source.
Reducing the protein (and possibly fat) to make way for carbs would be the problem. Increased carbs might lead to increased carb metabolism in some cases. However there are aspects of ME that indicate some insulin resistance. This, if validated, would definitely make increasing carbs a bad idea.

It also depends on the type of carbs. More pasta or potato would be much less useful than more nutrient and antioxidant dense vegetables, or even fruit. Such a diet might change the microbiome. However after over a year doing this I wound up probably B12 deficient, and probably with problems from too low a protein intake. I ate a meat pie one day and felt much improved. That led me to stop eating super high carb and low fat.

Too high a protein intake might also be a problem. We have yet to see the science really look at the options and what they actually do in ME. About the only thing we can be reasonably sure of is that all standard dietary advice for ME is dubious and needs to be validated all over again.
 

Kati

Patient in training
Messages
5,497
Reducing the protein (and possibly fat) to make way for carbs would be the problem. Increased carbs might lead to increased carb metabolism in some cases. However there are aspects of ME that indicate some insulin resistance. This, if validated, would definitely make increasing carbs a bad idea.

It also depends on the type of carbs. More pasta or potato would be much less useful than more nutrient and antioxidant dense vegetables, or even fruit. Such a diet might change the microbiome. However after over a year doing this I wound up probably B12 deficient, and probably with problems from too low a protein intake. I ate a meat pie one day and felt much improved. That led me to stop eating super high carb and low fat.

Too high a protein intake might also be a problem. We have yet to see the science really look at the options and what they actually do in ME. About the only thing we can be reasonably sure of is that all standard dietary advice for ME is dubious and needs to be validated all over again.
Agreed @alex3619. Personally i need meat and proteins. I do not need too much fat since i have plenty of reserve stores. My average daily breakdown is 55-60% carbs, 25-30% protein and the rest is fat. It works for me. I cook all of my meals usually from scratch, eat plenty of veggies and fruits of all kinds, and keep it below 1200 calories to reduce the fat reserves ;)
 
Messages
6
Ah, gotcha, thanks all for the insight! Seeing the article made me start thinking of possible new strategies to get some improvements, but it seems the search will have to continue
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Ah, gotcha, thanks all for the insight! Seeing the article made me start thinking of possible new strategies to get some improvements, but it seems the search will have to continue
The nice thing about a community is a great many of us are thinking about things to help improve our situation. Sometimes they work. Sometimes the only way to see if they help is to try them, after learning what the risks are.