Puzzling Test Result

[belize44]

For several weeks I have been noticing minor discomfort when urinating; slight burning but not painful, and then I started passing cloudy and blood tinged urine. Next came the pain across the lower abdomen, and lower back, then pain around the kidneys. I went to a walk in clinic and they did a urinalysis as well as prescribed an antibiotic. They said that that they would culture the sample and get back to me today.

Today they called and told me that my sample was "negative." How is this possible? I have been taking the antibiotic since Saturday but feel very ill, weak and tired more than my usual and have been sleeping a lot. No fever but definitely chills and nausea. Any ideas, anyone?

 

[leela]

I regularly have kidney/bladder infections that test negative for culture, with or without whatever that urine marker is that indicates infection (can't remember).
This is common in chronics--similar to interstitial cystitis, like interstitial pyelonephritis. Because they culture for e. coli and ours is usually not e. coli.

It also could be a small stone. If you start feeling waves of nausea/vomiting and the pain escalates to the point no position is comfortable, it's a stone.

I highly highly recommend Uva Ursi tincture and chanca piedra. These things work like magic, unlike anything the MDs gave me during these episodes.
Last fall I passed a stone that showed up on zero imaging (xray, ultrasound), and it was 4mm long and sharp!

The only thing that gave me relief from the cause were these two herbs. Toradol IM if the pain gets terrible, but good luck getting that Rxed.

I'm sorry you're having this, it's no fun, but the good news is, it passes!

 

[belize44]

Wow, I hadn't heard of Chanca Piedra before. I looked it up and it certainly sounds promising! I have fiber mix that I take now and then and it contains Uva Ursi among other things. I am going to look into getting the Chanca because I suspect that the doctors aren't going to be able to address this problem adequately. Thanks, Leela!

 

[sleepingbeautyxxx]

I never had as serious problems as you described, but when I was about 5 I had a chronic bladder infection. It went up to my kidneys and was quite dangerous. I constantly felt like I had a bladder infection but the tests always came back negative so they decided to use a catheter to get urine directly out of the bladder. Finally they had found something.

I'm also not sure what exactly they test, but certainly not what I had.

So maybe get a urine test directly out of your bladder and see if they find something?

Also try to lower your animal product intake since it has a high uric acid content. A consequence of high uric acid levels in your body are kidney stones etc.
Might be a good idea, if you have them or not.

Wish you luck! x

 

[belize44]

I never had as serious problems as you described, but when I was about 5 I had a chronic bladder infection. It went up to my kidneys and was quite dangerous. I constantly felt like I had a bladder infection but the tests always came back negative so they decided to use a catheter to get urine directly out of the bladder. Finally they had found something.

I'm also not sure what exactly they test, but certainly not what I had.

So maybe get a urine test directly out of your bladder and see if they find something?

Also try to lower your animal product intake since it has a high uric acid content. A consequence of high uric acid levels in your body are kidney stones etc.
Might be a good idea, if you have them or not.

Wish you luck! x

You might have a point with the animal product idea. I recently started a Keto diet and that was when this problem showed up. I do eat a lot of animal products now, much more than I did before. I will keep the test you mentioned in mind if this doesn't clear up in a few days. Thank you for the input!

 

[sleepingbeautyxxx]

The keto diet in general causes a lot of problems, it's only great for weight loss in my opinion.
But of course it's your choice.

You're welcome!

 

[belize44]

The keto diet in general causes a lot of problems, it's only great for weight loss in my opinion.
But of course it's your choice.

You're welcome!

Not so sure it's my choice anymore, unfortunately. My husband is doing great on it, however!

 

[barbc56]

I had similar symptoms when I had kidney stones. While this may not apply to you, further investigation of these symptoms might be a good idea.

I had several ultrasounds which showed the stones. It reduces the amount of radiation exposure. I did eventually have to get a cscan as I had several procedures to remove the stones. Though it used to be thought that nonobstrutive stones are painless, recent findings show they can produce symptoms. It's called small stone syndrome.

Again this may not apply to you.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Edit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23006342

http://kidneystones.uchicago.edu/why-do-kidney-stones-cause-pain/ (bottom of page).

 

[belize44]

I had similar symptoms when I had kidney stones. While this may not apply to you, further investigation of these symptoms might be a good idea.

I had several ultrasounds which showed the stones. It reduces the amount of radiation exposure. I did eventually have to get a cscan as I had several procedures to remove the stones. Though it used to be thought that nonobstrutive stones are painless, recent findings show they can produce symptoms. It's called small stone syndrome.

Again this may not apply to you.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Edit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23006342

http://kidneystones.uchicago.edu/why-do-kidney-stones-cause-pain/ (bottom of page).

I will take a look at these links, and thank you! I have had kidney stones before, and I am willing to bet that there may be some small ones undetected, but I will need to look into this more.

 

[Sea]

Another way to determine if there may be infection is to check the white blood cell count in the urine. This is raised in infection even when a culture is negative. In Australia a white blood cell count is a standard part of the test. Also a negative culture doesn't necessarily rule out infection - there can be errors in processing the sample.

 

[belize44]

Another way to determine if there may be infection is to check the white blood cell count in the urine. This is raised in infection even when a culture is negative. In Australia a white blood cell count is a standard part of the test. Also a negative culture doesn't necessarily rule out infection - there can be errors in processing the sample.

I don't see white blood cells mentioned here, but this is a cut and paste of the lab results:

Color Yellow

Appearance, Fluid Clear Clear, Slightly Cloudy, Hazy

Glucose, POC Negative Negative

Bilirubin, Urine, POC Negative Negative

Ketone, Urine, POC Negative Negative

Specific Gravity, Urine, POC 1.010 1.003 - 1.030

RBC, Urine, POC Small Negative

pH, UA 7.0 5 - 7.5

Protein, Urine, POC Negative Negative

Urobilinogen, Urine, POC 0-0.2mg/dL 0.2 - 1.0

Nitrite, Urine, POC Negative Negative, Indeterminate

Leukocytes, Urine, POC Negative Negative

 

[Valentijn]

RBC, Urine, POC Small Negative

Traces of blood in the urine might suggest some inflammation.

 

[belize44]

Traces of blood in the urine might suggest some inflammation.

I agree. I have also been told that as women age, that it is common to find small amounts of blood in the urine.

 

[erin]

In the beginning of my ME I had very frequent urinary track problems. I was very prone to get all sorts of infections, sometimes no infection but still was very sick. In the end I had an operative bladder investigation. I can't remember the name of the procedure. Under anesthetics they fill the bladder and all urinary track with a dye and and put me up side down (whatever this means, I didn't understand it much) and watch the dye showing any bumps, lumps etc in the whole urinary system. I was clear of any tumor etc, but the surgeon thought my urethra was very narrow and this was causing the problem. He said he's enlarged it manually with a help of a device. I had hardly any problems after this process.

Just sharing my experience.

I hope you get better asap.

 

[belize44]

Just sharing my experience.

I hope you get better asap.

Thanks for sharing that. I intend to finish the course of antibiotics and if there is not an improvement, I will have to get it looked into more thoroughly. In the meantime I am taking Mannose capsules, and expect my Chanca Piedra tablets tomorrow. I have given up the Keto diet for now, and will continue to avoid gluten, dairy, white sugar and some other evils. I feel slightly better today, but I know that I have a ways to go yet. I haven't seen cloudy urine since yesterday, at least!

 

[leela]

D-Mannose is only helpful if the infection is e. coli. Otherwise it is useless.
In my experience Uva Ursi in higher doses than you are currently taking relieve the pain and burning within a day.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

I don't see white blood cells mentioned here, but this is a cut and paste of the lab results:
[....]
RBC, Urine, POC Small Negative

Nitrite, Urine, POC Negative Negative, Indeterminate

Leukocytes, Urine, POC Negative Negative

Leukocytes = white blood cells. Negative nitrite and negative leukocytes indicate no infection. Bacteria produce nitrite. The body responds to urinary bacterial infection with increasing the number of white blood cells in the urine. A small number of white blood cells are normally present. Having red blood cells present is not normal.

It appears that a microscopic examination of the urine wasn't done. The results you show are from a "dipstick" examination only. Any unusual result from a dipstick exam should be followed up with a microscopic exam right then and there. Ten ml of urine is centrifuged for 5-10 minutes, the top part (9ml) decanted, then the contents of the remaining 1ml is mixed so that the button of solid material at the bottom of the tube is re-suspended. A small amount of this is put on a slide, covered with a cover slip, then examined under the microscope for about two minutes.

The amount of white cells, red cells, crystals, casts, etc. are graded as occasional, 1+, 2+, 3+, etc. The "+" designations have precise enumerations, for example 1+ white cells are 5 - 20 per high power field. If crystals are present, they are designated as to type, for instance, calcium oxalate or triple phosphate. It's possible that if you have a stone, that crystals of the same type of your stone could be present in your urine. It also would have been helpful to see if any casts were present.

I would ask for a repeat urine examination including microscopic examination. This is not the same thing as a microbiologic culture, which involves trying to grow micro-organisms from the urine and usually takes several days. Some doctors and nurses have a bad habit of saying "with micro" when submitting a urinalysis request and lab personnel then need to ask, "Do you want a microscopic exam or microbiologic culture?" (Happened to me when I was working.)

By the way, the leukocyte (white blood cell) test from the dipstick is a chemical test for leukocyte esterase, an enzyme produced from white blood cells. This is how they could tell that no white blood cells were present without doing a microscopic examination.

 

[belize44]

It appears that a microscopic examination of the urine wasn't done. The results you show are from a "dipstick" examination only. Any unusual result from a dipstick exam should be followed up with a microscopic exam right then and there. Ten ml of urine is centrifuged for 5-10 minutes, the top part (9ml) decanted, then the contents of the remaining 1ml is mixed so that the button of solid material at the bottom of the tube is re-suspended. A small amount of this is put on a slide, covered with a cover slip, then examined under the microscope for about two minutes.

I took my husband with me into the exam room, and he asked the doctor if the specimen would be centrifuged (he works in a lab) and she said it would, in addition to sending it in to be cultured as well. This is why I was puzzled that they didn't find an answer.

I would ask for a repeat urine examination including microscopic examination.

This explanation is very helpful indeed! If my symptoms do not improve, I was planning to have a repeat of the test done.