How regular are you? - Toilet Cycles

[ChrisD]

Considering the fact that a lot of recent research points to the gut as origin to the illness ME/CFS, should we be more aware with what is going on with our gut, bowel and colon?

I have noticed that either when I am using probiotics, eating LOTS of veggies, using higher doses of Vitamin C, or antibacterials such as Oregano oil; that I become more regular and use the toilet after every meal. I mentioned this to a holistic health therapist and she confirmed that this is the perfect cycle and that it was most efficient for the digestive cycle. I will also experience 'good gut feelings' and rumblings down there, that seem to be followed by slightly improved symptoms, perfectly formed stool that is easy to pass and comes in as a 4 on the Bristol stool chart.

When I am not using these treatments, my cycle reverts back to once a day, rather than three times and hence become more constipated, and find it slightly more uncomfortable to pass stool. Then I notice that my symptoms increase and return.

Sorry if this is TMI, but what could be happening between these two situations? Temporary increases in good bacteria and more efficient digestion and absorption? the killing of bad bacteria? any other ideas?

 

[BFitz89]

I used to go once a day. Within a couple months after mono and as soon as I fell ill with CFS it changed to once every 3 to 4 days and that's where it remains to this day. My stool is absolutely terrible, too. Very unhealthy appearance.

 

[Carl]

I have always had a slow bowel, since very early childhood. In some people, the month of birth is part of this and emotional repression is another aspect. Couple both together, repressed sadness and certain months of birth and chronically slow nerve impulses to the bowel wall results. I have been working on attempting to eliminate the repression of emotion. ATM it's a work in progress. If I can successfully eliminate it then the slow bowel movement should be gone. Elimination of CFS would also certainly help reduce the tendency to constipation.

CFS made things a lot worse, possible due to acetylcholine deficiency due to the requirements of the liver for choline.
Check out how many symptoms many CFSers share on the following list. I am not promoting this product, I have never tried it.
https://vagusnervesupport.com/top-ten-symptoms-of-low-acetylcholine/
Alpha GPC might be helpful, something that I have never tried. I have used lecithin but too much of that makes me very tired but it does soften my bowel movement and make them easier to move. I do take small amounts of lecithin each day. I would like to move to lipsomal vit c and get the lecithin from that.

From that formula, I already take thiamine/benfotiamine & ALCAR. I am just missing A-GPC and huperzia serrata which might be helpful.

 

[Richard7]

@ChrisD

i am kind of all over the place. I have not kept great records. I am not well enough at present. But I have noticed that there seems at the moment to be a pretty clear ralationship between PoTS and stool formation. When my PoTS is less severe I form reasonably good bristol 4s or things that are similar. On the day after a bad PoTS day it will be in the 5-7 range.

I have not being tracking frequency of late. But I know that there have been periods where stools pretty much followed meals, which I understand is a consequence of normal peristalisis - at least in children. And periods where I was produced one well formed stool a day.

For me at the moment I think it is about energy allocation.

re probiotics you may want to check out ken lassesen's blog https://cfsremission.wordpress.com/ he seems to be the best repository of probiotic information for pwme/cfs

 

[kelly8]

I have been dealing with constipation for years. I've been working on healing my gut for the last 6 years or so. This is before the thoughts as to possibly having CFS. They thought I had leaky gut and I went on an aip diet. The stools improved to once a day sometimes twice. Not even a year later I was back at being constipated and only going every other day. As the years went on it had gotten much worse to actually having to go to urgent care and emergency rooms because of the pain. I've been treating my gut with multiple different probiotics. I've also been using 1000mg of vitamin c. The constipation seems to come in waves. Some days I have diarrhea. Other days I'm constipated and it lasts up to 3 or 4 days. My diet is pretty immaculate. Its frustrating because I work so hard at improving my gut. I'm not sure why everything has slowed down so much. I don't think i was ever regular even as a child.

 

[Richard7]

@kelly8 that word immaculate is kind of he thing isn't it.

I spent quite some time working at AIP and wahls etc, making sure I had plenty of fibre and so on and so on, but the problem is that the results expected for people without CFS/ME are going to be no indication of what to expect for those with CFS/ME.

I spent so much effort trying to do those diets perfectly and well you know.

Having said that I should have mentioned that I had IBS-A for a long time much more often more d than c, So my experience may not track yours (even though we both have CFS).

I found that betaine HCL and Ox bile made the biggest changes, they pretty much wiped out SIBO and shifted my gut more towards IBS-D.

Last year I found out that I had b hominis, and took triple therapy (describe here http://www.badbugs.org/Blasto_treating.htm) which restored my ability to make/relese bile, so I no longer need to take ox bile.

re the acetylcholine that @Carl mentioned. I know that there was another thread on PR about a year ago started by someone who was taking choline and sipping cider vinegar in water throughout the day to have a steady supply of acetyl groups.

that might be worth trying.

 

[taniaaust1]

ME/CFS has really slowed down my bowels, I have IBC-C (of the constipation dominant variety) due to this. .. and then a commonly given med in ME/CFS for insomina screwed my bowel up further (I lost most of my peristalsis) so it ended up prolapsing. In my own case diet and good quality probotics do nothing to help my bowel at all.

Taking 6g vitamin C per day doesnt bring any bowel changes to me (Ive no idea where my bowel tollerance to vit C is).

My bowels seem to be highly affected by hormones, I can swing from constipation to diarrhea when I get my periods, something I did not have an issue with before ME/CFS.

 

[pamojja]

I've been on Linus Pauling therapy since 9 years. Which basically is all essential vitamins and minerals, along with high dose vitamin C and lysine. Took about 23 g per day of vitamin C during these years, along with 1.5 g elemental magnesium for a very severe and still not resolved Mg-deficiency. My bowel-tolerance for vitamin C ends at 50 g/d.

All that probably explains that I had about 3 regular bowel-movements each day.

 

[caledonia]

Constipation is a symptom of magnesium deficiency. You can increase frequency by supplementing with some magnesium. Probiotics are helpful too.

Large amounts of vitamin C may also make your bowels looser.

Some medications can cause constipation (probably by depleting magnesium). You can google the name of your medication and the word "depletes" to see what vitamins and minerals are depleted by your medication(s). You can also refer to the book Drug Muggers.

Light colored stools are a symptom of the liver not detoxifying well. Some milk thistle, which supports the liver, could help. I think also ox bile (bile salts).

If you have further problems like IBS, consider doing the 4R Gut Rebuilding Program, which is was developed by the Institute for Functional Medicine. I have more info on that in my signature link.

 

[kelly8]

Constipation is a symptom of magnesium deficiency. You can increase frequency by supplementing with some magnesium. Probiotics are helpful too

@caledonia , it is interesting you say that. I've been tested before for magnesium deficiency and showed I needed some. However, when I add magnesium in it doesn't seem to help with the constipation. I've drank whole bottles of mag citrate before with nothing happening at all. I've been checked for blockages with no issue. The mag citrate just makes me feel sick. I even tried Epsom salt baths to see if that was a gentler way to get the magnesium in and I still just felt nauseas. Is there a different way to get magnesium in? I also don't want to become dependent on it to poop so I use it sparingly...

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia , it is interesting you say that. I've been tested before for magnesium deficiency and showed I needed some. However, when I add magnesium in it doesn't seem to help with the constipation. I've drank whole bottles of mag citrate before with nothing happening at all. I've been checked for blockages with no issue. The mag citrate just makes me feel sick. I even tried Epsom salt baths to see if that was a gentler way to get the magnesium in and I still just felt nauseas. Is there a different way to get magnesium in? I also don't want to become dependent on it to poop so I use it sparingly...

I've had trouble with mag citrate too. I do well with mag glycinate.

It could be the form - there are several forms mag oxide, citrate, sulfate, malate, taurate, glycinate, etc. It might be worthwhile to experiment to see if you tolerate one form better than another.

Mag oxide absorbs the worst. Mag glycinate is one of the better ones in terms of absorption.

The other thing is you may have done too much too fast. It's best to start with a very low dose, hold that for a few days until your body adapts, then increase a bit, hold for a few days etc.

It will also absorb better if you take it in 2 or more doses throughout the day. I take it 4 times a day.

You can also take it transdermally like with magnesium oil sprayed on the skin, but it's less likely to affect your bowels.

As far as being dependent on it to poop - maybe it would help if you reframed how you look at it - you're deficient in magnesium so you're replacing magnesium. Magnesium is a co-factor in dozens of important reactions throughout your body, not just for the bowels. For example, it's a co-factor for methylation, which regulates over 40 major reactions in the body.

So if you take magnesium, you're doing something really good for your body and how it functions vs. taking a laxative or taking nothing.

Then you can also go deeper and figure out why you're deficient in magnesium. You may be able to get to the root and eliminate the need for extra mag altogether.

For the general public - the soil is depleted in magnesium, so going organic and getting your veggies and fruits may be helpful.

If you're taking medication, it can deplete mag, so you need to compensate for it. Getting off the med (if possible) would eliminate the need for extra mag.

For many people on this board, they have adrenal fatigue which means their body is not holding onto electrolytes like it should, so replacing electrolytes helps them feel better. There may be several causes for adrenal fatigue and various treatments.

 

[kelly8]

That is some great info @caledonia . I have noticed that coconut water which is supposed to be higher in electrolytes has helped. I guess I'll need to look at the magnesium again and try switching up my source. That is a much better way of thinking about it! Thank you!