I don't get PEM in Hawaii. Why?

[Strawberry]

@Strawberry , I hope your improvement lasts a little longer! Maybe you just have to visit your daughter a lot more

Definitely! Once she gets her couch, I will even have a free place to sleep!

My sore throat is slowly getting worse. Strange, as I haven't done anything but go to work in the last 48 hours. My pem usually takes almost 48 hours to kick in. I think its allergies?

 

[Basilico]

@Strawberry , darn, I hoped your relief would last a bit longer.

Have you ever tried Cat's Claw or Andrographis? Cat's claw is an antiviral herb (I can't find any studies that show exactly how strong the antiviral action is, but it is documented) and Andrographis also seems pretty promising (my husband just recently started that one, too early to vouch for it personally). I learned about it from Mary, who uses Andrographis to stop getting sick so often on this thread: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/sick-again.51226/#post-845928 and it seems others here have used it with good results.

Do you think your sore throat is from congestion? Have you ever tried running a dehumidifier? When we started running a dehumidifier to keep the humidity consistently below 50%, my husband's chronic congestion disappeared. Not sure if it's the humidity, or maybe something in the air is getting filtered out.

Maybe you could cover your walls with posters of Hawaii and start drinking tiki drinks and try to trick yourself into think you're still there!

 

[TenuousGrip]

In Seattle, do you work ?

Sometimes it's the vacation itself as much as it is the destination.

Less stress, less fluorescent lighting, less computer time, less interaction with co-workers (and the potential germs they carry), better sleep, easier to eat better, more gentle exercise, etc., etc., etc.

Either way ... I hope it persists

 

[Strawberry]

Have you ever tried Cat's Claw or Andrographis?

I'm not sure what I have tried any more. It has been years since I went the natural medicine route, so it is possible, but they don't sound familiar. This illness had always felt viral, but now I do wonder if it really is MCS and MCAS. I don't know.

Do you think your sore throat is from congestion? Have you ever tried running a dehumidifier?

I actually prefer humid air over dry air. I'd have to try it, but I don't feel better when I vacation in dry climates.

Maybe you could cover your walls with posters of Hawaii and start drinking tiki drinks and try to trick yourself into think you're still there!

Love it!!!!

In Seattle, do you work ?

Sometimes it's the vacation itself as much as it is the destination.

Yeah, I do work in Seattle (don't actually live in this city). I understand the 5% improvement linked to being on vacation, but it doesn't make sense that I pushed myself so hard and never got PEM. I don't think that can be explained away to just being on vacation. I know if I pushed myself that hard at home, I would get sick with PEM 48 hours later.

I don't know... I'm still very confused, but very grateful that I was able to help get her apartment cleaned (it had been bug bombed) and at least set up enough for basic living when I left. And grateful that I wasn't fluish and having to come back to work.

 

[stolpioni]

I have extreme improvement while I'm traveling. In fact, while traveling, I feel like a switch is flipped and I'm a completely different person. 2 years ago I took a trip by myself to Budapest, walked 15 miles on a 100 degree day...got heatstroke and was up most of the night puking, but the next day I was totally fine and walked another 10+ miles (though was careful to get more shade and use public transportation a bit more).

For me, this has nothing to do with sun as I live in Florida and get tons of sun all year round.

My husband also has brief periods of improvements when he's doing something he loves or really having a lot of fun. Somehow, doing things we are really excited about is able to temporarily alter the chemical messages our brains are getting/sending. I imagine that you really love both being there and also spending time with your daughter, a double whammy. I don't know how this works, so I don't have any answers for you. I hope it lasts and you can continue to enjoy your visits. Maybe you'll even decide to move there someday!

So most probably your issues are psychological. One should never underestimate the placebo effect.

 

[stolpioni]

Yeah, I do work in Seattle (don't actually live in this city). I understand the 5% improvement linked to being on vacation, but it doesn't make sense that I pushed myself so hard and never got PEM. I don't think that can be explained away to just being on vacation. I know if I pushed myself that hard at home, I would get sick with PEM 48 hours later.

I don't know... I'm still very confused, but very grateful that I was able to help get her apartment cleaned (it had been bug bombed) and at least set up enough for basic living when I left. And grateful that I wasn't fluish and having to come back to work.

Have you checked for CIRS/mold? You may have it.

 

[Basilico]

So most probably your issues are psychological. One should never underestimate the placebo effect.

My health issues are definitely NOT psychological, same goes for my husband (believe me, we have spent A LOT of time discussing whether this was a possibility!) My temporary improvement only lasts for a few days, and his for a few hours. Often, when I return from a trip where I have been pushing my physical limits, I need a good week to recover, so it's not without consequences.

The placebo effect is when you are receiving a medication/treatment that you THINK is legitimate but is actually just something inert (like a sugar pill), but you have a strong reaction to it as if it were the real medication. I don't see how that applies to this situation.

I have heard from many others here who have had a similar short term (but temporary) dramatic improvement...that doesn't mean the illness is psychosomatic. It could be something as simple as doing something that you find highly enjoyable releases a huge burst of chemicals that have an anti-inflammatory effect or in some way dampen the immune response. One person I have been writing to said that when he got really riled up (as a result of having to defend that his sickness was real to a doctor who was insisting it was in his mind) actually felt really good for the rest of the day as a result...I think it's likely he got some kind of burst of cortisol (or maybe cortisol in addition to some other release of chemicals) that gave him short term relief.

 

[Strawberry]

Have you checked for CIRS/mold? You may have it.

I haven't. Is that something easy to get doctors to do? Or is that one of the things that doctors love to say doesn't exist?

 

[Strawberry]

Okay, time for an update. Last night, not only did I realize that I STILL have not have had PEM, my burning legs now feel normal. Although I haven't really done anything that was 100% certain to cause PEM. I thought Mother's Day preparations might, but I was able to break it up over two days so it was pretty simple. I definitely am NOT symptom free, pushing it mildly will give me poor sleep and feeling under the weather, but not what I am used to.

I've been given a dose of medicine, and I will continue to take it. And THIS time, I'm being smart.

Last time I got a noticeable benefit from Hawaii, I abused it. It was necessary, I couldn't avoid it. Within a week of returning from Hawaii, my brother died of late stage cancer and I had to be part of funeral preparations and clearing his house. My house purchase closed the week after that and then another brother and I painted the house interior. I was up and down from a 5 gallon bucket so many times per day that I had muscle pain from muscle over use. That felt good! Everyone was surprised at how much I was able to do. Then I moved in all the important stuff to live. Then I decided I was doing so well I would explore the private beach 225 feet below my house (biggest mistake). Then I moved the final truck load of non essential stuff to my house. Then I moved the corporate office. And on and on..... I crashed, and I crashed hard. That was when my inability to stand for more than a minute or two started. And yet I still had to push. Every weekend something HAD to happen, and I had no excuse to not do it. So I continued, even though I could barely take care of simple things. And I have not been able to even cook a simple meal after work without lack of sleep, burning legs, and getting PEM. Until now.

So I will repeat this again, so I don't forget it.


I've been given a dose of medicine, and I will continue to take it. And THIS time, I'm being smart.

(I'm still looking for valid explanations or possibilities why my PEM stopped in Hawaii, even though I was massively overdoing it for 48 hours cleaning and moving my daughters stuff- and how it still continues to help me back in Seattle. PEM just seems to have vanished.)

 

[Basilico]

CFS (aka WTF disease) makes no sense...I really hope that this time your remission is long lasting (or even permanent)! It will be interesting to see what happens if you don't go overboard again.

 

[Strawberry]

CFS (aka WTF disease) makes no sense...

LOL!!!

I definitely do not have any plans of going overboard again! I'm hoping to stay this way! (and maybe very slowly improve a bit!)

 

[Valentijn]

(I'm still looking for valid explanations or possibilities why my PEM stopped in Hawaii, even though I was massively overdoing it for 48 hours cleaning and moving my daughters stuff- and how it still continues to help me back in Seattle. PEM just seems to have vanished.)

I do better on vacation too, even if it's within a 2 hour drive of home. One big factor in the past was that I wouldn't be using stairs on vacation. The hotels all had elevators.

Another factor is that people are taking care of you. They're cooking your food, they're washing the dishes, they're cleaning up your room, they're fetching things.

These might seem like minor things, but they really add up. Stairs especially are a huge strain for me, and they can't easily be paced by stopping to rest halfway up or down

 

[Strawberry]

I do better on vacation too, even if it's within a 2 hour drive of home. One big factor in the past was that I wouldn't be using stairs on vacation. The hotels all had elevators.

Another factor is that people are taking care of you. They're cooking your food, they're washing the dishes, they're cleaning up your room, they're fetching things.

These might seem like minor things, but they really add up. Stairs especially are a huge strain for me, and they can't easily be paced by stopping to rest halfway up or down

Good points, but I'm not sure how much it applies to me. I actually stay in a condo so that I can cook my own meals. It is cheaper than a hotel, although not glitsy nice. But clean and efficient!

I also forgot to mention that the building had a scheduled fire alarm test on Tuesday, so we just made sure to be gone during those hours. But we also had an unscheduled fire alarm test Wednesday morning, so mini me and I walked down 16 stories of stairs. My muscles hurt from that, but still no PEM. Thankfully going back up later the elevators were functioning again!

Have a great weekend, I guess you have (had) a holiday also!

 

[Snow Leopard]

I don't feel any better on vacation, and I have visited Hawaii. I liked Hawaii (Hawaiians are among the most friendly people I've ever met!) but my sinuses don't agree with the volcanic outgassing (when it occurs).

 

[Strawberry]

Here is another update, I finally found the limit of my ?vacation induced? lack of PEM. I finally got sick two days ago. It was May 6 and 7 that we were manically cleaning my daughter's apartment, and May 8 we did an early morning run to the grocery store so she would have food to eat for a few weeks. I went through the entire grocery store for about an hour, withOUT my cane! Then I returned my rental car and hopped on the plane back to Seattle. All of that on any one of the three days should have made me quite sick with PEM.

I also have had some "issues" over the last few weeks that I won't go into, but I had to do excessive cleaning, stress, etc that also should have given me PEM. But I didn't.

So 5 1/2 weeks was a pretty nice stretch with no PEM! Even though I over did it a few times. If the fatigue would have left, it would have been amazing, but ah well. It is interesting still that I have had this long of a stretch.

@Snow Leopard I know what you mean about the VOG. Yuck. Thankfully Oahu doesn't get VOG often, so I am fairly allergy free while there.

Sorry if this is choppy, too hurried and sick brained!

 

[gettinbetter]

Where I live now San Francisco Bay Area I feel lousy most of the time
When I lived farther south I had much less problem felt good most of the time
When I lived near the arctic circle I felt good
When I visited the area around Grand Canyon I felt better than ever
Something about the Bay Area zaps my energy
Is it pollution or EMR or something else?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Is it pollution or EMR or something else?

Barometric pressure

 

[helen1]

Where I live now San Francisco Bay Area I feel lousy most of the time
When I lived farther south I had much less problem felt good most of the time
When I lived near the arctic circle I felt good
When I visited the area around Grand Canyon I felt better than ever
Something about the Bay Area zaps my energy
Is it pollution or EMR or something else?

I've read in the mold group that the Bay Area is especially difficult for mold sensitive people.

@gettinbetter

 

[gettinbetter]

Mold maybe haven't thought about that
Barometric Pressure is also interesting.
How do you find out what the barometric pressure is in a given area?

 

[sb4]

So most probably your issues are psychological. One should never underestimate the placebo effect.

I believe this is false.

There are big changes when you move location (Sun, EMF, Temperature,etc) and these definitely have an effect on the system.

I would recommend reading Jacks blog as he really pushes getting strong sun for health benefits.

As for those who get worse in florida, could it be EMFs? I've heard its a nnEMF hellhole over there...