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Am I obsessing too much over the gut?

Basilico

Florida
Messages
948
Hi bsilico,
So let me understand??? You and your husband both have ME/CFS?? Or me/cfs like symtoms?????

He has what I consider "true CFS". I am diagnosed with MS, but it's somewhat atypical and my symptoms seem to be more in line with CFS. There is a lot of overlap with symptoms for CFS and MS, and I'm convinced that both of them are symptoms of a disregulation in the immune system and CNS. His CFS began after a really intense month-long flu-like infection, while my first symptoms started after a period of extreme stress.
 

Knockknock

Senior Member
Messages
212
He has what I consider "true CFS". I am diagnosed with MS, but it's somewhat atypical and my symptoms seem to be more in line with CFS. There is a lot of overlap with symptoms for CFS and MS, and I'm convinced that both of them are symptoms of a disregulation in the immune system and CNS. His CFS began after a really intense month-long flu-like infection, while my first symptoms started after a period of extreme stress.
!!!!!!' IM SOOOOO SORRY BOTH OF YOU HAVE IT, BUT GLAD THAT YOU ARE POSTING THIS.
In another thread i post my believe that MS and CFS and many of this auto neuroimmune illnesess most likely have an infectious etiology, transmisible, many families like you ( and me) husband and wife both have, wich prove could be transmisible, you have it you dont develope until certein events trigger it, even childrens from thesame marriage develope and show immune disfuntions to like in my case.
I have contact many other families were husban wife and childrens of same blood line have it.
This prove to be transmisible.
No reason why 2 diferent individuals huaband wife will have it.
To me this is a retrovirus that is copying and changin our cell DNA, like it happens on AIDS, but since we dont have HIV we dont develope AIDS, but we do have many similar immune deficiencies and symptoms, the we develope MS, CFS... etc.
Its more than obvious how can peope denied this??,
People Seniors from PR strongly argue this with me saying!! WE DONT KNWO ANYONE WHO HUSBAN AND WIFE HAS IT.
 

Basilico

Florida
Messages
948
In another thread i post my believe that MS and CFS and many of this auto neuroimmune illnesess most likely have an infectious etiology, transmisible, many families like you ( and me) husband and wife both have, wich prove could be transmisible, you have it you dont develope until certein events trigger it, even childrens from thesame marriage develope and show immune disfuntions to like in my case.

He got that month-long flu directly after we first got together, and even though I wasn't sick at the time, it's possible that I transmitted something to him unknowingly. At this point, I don't really think a virus is the root cause, but there are so many unknowns that there's no way to rule anything out.

I'm starting to think that CFS has a lot in common with AIDS, and I'm reading a fascinating book written by a doctor who was convinced that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. I was ready to write it off as nonsense at first, but the more I read, the more sense it made, and it eventually led me to the Nitric Oxide cycle, which is hypothesized to also be a big problem for CFSers.

Anyway, even though it's definitely hard for both of us to have health issues, I think that it's actually better than just one of us being sick, because we both have a lot of sympathy and understanding for each other, and most of the time we luck out and one person will be feeling better when the other isn't, so there's at least one semi-functional person to take charge of cleaning and cooking and researching!
 

Knockknock

Senior Member
Messages
212
He got that month-long flu directly after we first got together, and even though I wasn't sick at the time, it's possible that I transmitted something to him unknowingly. At this point, I don't really think a virus is the root cause, but there are so many unknowns that there's no way to rule anything out.

I'm starting to think that CFS has a lot in common with AIDS, and I'm reading a fascinating book written by a doctor who was convinced that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. I was ready to write it off as nonsense at first, but the more I read, the more sense it made, and it eventually led me to the Nitric Oxide cycle, which is hypothesized to also be a big problem for CFSers.

Anyway, even though it's definitely hard for both of us to have health issues, I think that it's actually better than just one of us being sick, because we both have a lot of sympathy and understanding for each other, and most of the time we luck out and one person will be feeling better when the other isn't, so there's at least one semi-functional person to take charge of cleaning and cooking and researching!
Ofcourse there is a retrovirus behind it.
Look you and your husaband like me and my wife are two completely diferent bodys gentecly.
No reason what so ever to both have the illness unless it was transmisible.
In my case i think waa alone for two years after devorced my first wife, those 2 years i did alot of dating were i prpbably got it, them i meet my wife and got married, we have a comun child from this marriage, ahmsome smart 6 year old boy, before i married my wife amd during marriage i suffer from alot of inflamation in my spine, cronic pain, but never nothing that look like cfs, inused to go to the gym etc.
After my son was born 3 yrs into the relation i started to see some changes, mainly in my wofer her immune system, cronic migrane etc, my son also had alot of signs like ezemas, easy bruising, respiratory infections, colds etc, but nothing became cronic untill we came back from a trip , the 3 of is started to have myra of symtoms, me and my wife were cronic like hardly funtioning.. we tested positive for mycoplasma the baby to, but coinsidenttly our other two kids from prev marriage and everyone else on the trip were just fine, we also teated positive to cocksakie and oyhwr hepes viruses.

Wich confirma its something i after my first marriage but before my wife and my son.

I movilized quick when to see good doctors well know in ME/CFS and with their guidance supplement lsantivirals we were able to stabilize my wife when from a 4-5 to like a 6-7 most of cronic stuff when away, i recovered from a 5-6 to like 8-9 , not even close to what in was but better.
My son energy wise and other aspects got better to, but still have alot of ezemas, respiratory infections like ashma.

Im more than convinced this a is a retrovirus, thesame one that cause AIDS, but ofcourse you have to have HIV, like in CFS viruses reactivate replicate uncheck and distintely, thesame happen with HIV its a virus replicate out of control, since this Retrovirus that copy and transform our genes our viral RNase L, our Nk cells, with out this there no immunity, so if you have this RETROVIRUS and also HIV you will develope AIDS, if you have this virus and also hhv-6 or EBV you will develope MS or CFS, if you get bartonella sprirochete you will develope lyme.
All of this illnesess share lot of similarity,
Including than in all of them you immune deficiency( using disfuntion is missleading becouse is both)
Subsetibility to most of thesame viruses mycoplasmas etc..
Our only gran hope is than even though we still short of fundig and not were we want yet, there is alot more understanding of this illness, vitamin and mineral deficiency, supplements that help, evey day there is more Awareness and understanding.
 
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Knockknock

Senior Member
Messages
212
He got that month-long flu directly after we first got together, and even though I wasn't sick at the time, it's possible that I transmitted something to him unknowingly. At this point, I don't really think a virus is the root cause, but there are so many unknowns that there's no way to rule anything out.

I'm starting to think that CFS has a lot in common with AIDS, and I'm reading a fascinating book written by a doctor who was convinced that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. I was ready to write it off as nonsense at first, but the more I read, the more sense it made, and it eventually led me to the Nitric Oxide cycle, which is hypothesized to also be a big problem for CFSers.

Anyway, even though it's definitely hard for both of us to have health issues, I think that it's actually better than just one of us being sick, because we both have a lot of sympathy and understanding for each other, and most of the time we luck out and one person will be feeling better when the other isn't, so there's at least one semi-functional person to take charge of cleaning and cooking and researching!
indeed hiv alone doesnt cause AIDS, HHV-6 alone doesnt cause disease, EBV is like mild flue, this are just opprtunist viruses, when there is immunosupresion them this viruses cause diseae, look if Hiv is not jusr the cause of AIDS alone that HHV6 can damage lynphocites & depletion of CD4 as much as hiv, that is why there is AIDS NONE HIV, they call it ideopatic lymphocytopenia..& cfs that look alot like it but with out the HIV.
 

ChrisD

Senior Member
Messages
475
Location
East Sussex
In my opinion we would be crazy to not be obsessing over the Gut! So many studies show it to be central to the ongoing issues with our condition, I believe that the initial event of Stress + Virus resets and ruptures the gut and causes the unbalance of flora that prolongs the effect of fatigue etc.

I have had 3 stool tests over the course of the past couple of years at key stages of my illness; Start, Improvement and Crash and plan to have another soon as I started to improve again after my big crash. I am using bravo probiotic yogurt and a Keto/paleo/lchf/bulletproof diet to create an environment for healthy intestinal flora. I would recommend Bravo to anyone with ME/CFS or Fibro as it has definitely made significant improvement to my health - energy levels and sleep, it's just very expensive.
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
2) SymbioFlor 1 and 2 (made in Germany):
Type 1 is Enterococcus Faecalis (just like E. Coli, there are good strains and bad strains, and this is a 'good' Faecalis strain). It is supposed to be for people with chronic respiratory issues. We were confused as to how a probiotic could be could for something like that, but my husband (who has chronic sinusitis and congestion) took this and his congestion was immediately better. He also got some swelling in his glands, which is why I think he eventually stopped taking it, but I think he might try it again at some point. So there is definitely action on the upper respiratory system (who knew probiotics controlled even THAT?).

I just finished up a course of SymbioFlor 2. I had low E. Coli on a stool test, and I noticed quite a significant improvement in energy, anxiety and mood, as well as a reduction in subjective symptoms of inflammation etc. I would like to order another bottle.

In the meantime, though, I have some SymbioFlor 1 which I ordered accidentally. I don't believe I had low Enterococcus on my stool test, but do you know if I could do any harm by trying it?
 

Basilico

Florida
Messages
948
@outdamnspot , I don't see why the Symbioflor1 would cause a problem. It's not pathogenic, so I don't think it should muscle out other beneficial strains. If your levels are already optimal, you probably won't notice anything by taking it, but you never know. Since you already have it on hand, I think it's worth trying.

I'm really glad to hear you had such a great result with the Symbioflor2!
 
Messages
9
In my opinion it's all about stomach acid, bile and thyroid function. That's why i got so much better on high iodine intake. And that's why i got so bad on a low salt diet, with no added iodine. And i know one thing for sure: As i reached my best symptom free time i didn't take any probiotics. And my worst time was beeing on a low salt & iodine diet with added probiotics, this ended in SIBO symptoms.

Though i know probiotics can be benefical. But my conclusion is: If i have low stomach acid and take probiotics then my gut bloats. If i have high stomach acid and take probiotics i feel well. Focus on thyroid and stomach acid and add some probiotics from time to time when stomach acid is high.
 

Knockknock

Senior Member
Messages
212
In my opinion we would be crazy to not be obsessing over the Gut! So many studies show it to be central to the ongoing issues with our condition, I believe that the initial event of Stress + Virus resets and ruptures the gut and causes the unbalance of flora that prolongs the effect of fatigue etc.

I have had 3 stool tests over the course of the past couple of years at key stages of my illness; Start, Improvement and Crash and plan to have another soon as I started to improve again after my big crash. I am using bravo probiotic yogurt and a Keto/paleo/lchf/bulletproof diet to create an environment for healthy intestinal flora. I would recommend Bravo to anyone with ME/CFS or Fibro as it has definitely made significant improvement to my health - energy levels and sleep, it's just very expensive.
i agree the gut bacteria its at the core of our illness, but this happens also in HIV/AIDS.
what i think its happening with us goes far beyond just the gut bacteria.
i think what happen to us is that a RETROVIRUS has mutated our genes, changed our DNA, changed our methyliation and everything else is the result of that , a total disruption of the body, the stomach doesn't have the zinc and the other essential minerals to maintain gut health, if gut in not healthy nothing else is healthy, as the result of that our Rnase L antiviral doesn't is disfuntional our Nk cells is disfuntional, this allow viruses cancer bacteria including our gut bad bacteria to overgrown , this disrupt also hormones in woman.. its a cascade efect one thing lead to another..
this explain why people get better on diferent protocols and treatments while others don't, especially if you have been sick for longer , the retrovirus have change your Dna and mutate your gens to a degree were lowering viral load or quieting one virus doesn't make difference your body it's been completely change.
 
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