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Paleolithic diet - helpful or harmful for people with CFS?

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
P.P.S. No oat bran. Scottish oatmeal only.

I've noticed very marked differences between eating plain oatmeal vs eating a mix of oatmeal + oat bran in a 1:1 ratio. The oat bran got rid of some of my symptoms whereas the oatmeal was only mildly beneficial, barely any noticeable effect. I also noticed that small doses of bran don't do much. Like you've written on the RS thread previously about working up to huge doses of RS and other fibres and noticing some real shifts, I feel that it might take daily megadosing with bran to see some real changes in the overall condition. The problem is that the resulting inflammation may not be tolerable for many. But I am working on building up beyond 2 tbsp a day to see what happens because 2 is definitely more effective than 1 for me so who knows what 3 or 4 or 6 per day would do. (Maybe nothing good, who knows. :rolleyes: )
 

whodathunkit

Senior Member
Messages
1,160
The problem is that the resulting inflammation may not be tolerable for many.
I'm seriously coming around to the opinion that intermittent fasting has done as much for my inflammation levels as anything.

I say this because for over a decade I had this stubborn little pink rash across the bridge of my nose and onto my cheeks right below the pupils of my eyes. It wasn't big, and it wasn't rosacea, just red and rashy looking. Some days it would be brighter pink than other days, it would wax and wane, but it was always there.

Awhile back I saw someone on the 'net somewhere refer to the phenomenon of non-rosacea rash on the nose as an "estrogen rash", so that's what I called it since I have all these hormone problems. But since hitting PR I realized it was simply a marker of long-standing, chronic inflammation. I've always had a problem with inflammation...used to get itchy eczema on my hands as a young adult, and when I was a child it was in the bend of my elbows.

Methylation and gut stuff did nothing for the "estrogen rash", in fact some days both protocols seem to exacerbate it. I despaired of it ever being gone.

But the days after I fast for 24 hours it's always completely gone in the morning. It stays mostly gone all the time. I have to look pretty hard for it, if it's to be found. Most noteworthy is that on the days after I fast it isn't too be found at all.

Even my mother has noticed it's gone, and she's a tough critic. We are genetically blessed with really good skin and so if somethings not right with it, it's noticeable. Plus she's kind of a diva. ;) She's been remarking on the rash since it appeared loooong ago :meh: and now she's remarking that it's gone. :thumbsup:

For whatever that's worth. I know IF isn't for everyone but it does seem that it could be an undersung player in reducing inflammation.

P.S. Thanks for the tip about oat bran. I'm going to try adding some to my weekly porridge ration, see what happens.
 

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
Sid, what about 16/8 with a daily ration of porridge + oat bran? Do you think that would put you in the loo?

When I initiated daily porridge + bran in August I was able to fast again (without thinking about it, just didn't have an interest in food) and my appetite went down a great deal. It was totally shocking and unexpected given how ill fasting has been making me ever since the post-VLC crash. I think this reflects bran-induced increased butyrate production in the gut. However, we're into October now and I always have seasonal deterioration in my condition so I have more hunger again. I'm not sure, perhaps what is needed is a bigger dose during the winter months.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@Kitsune...You tag people by putting @ in front of name.

However, what I can't find anywhere is an explanation for why a methylation protocol might be useful in the first place, because a) I've seen several people say that it doesn't actually heal the CFS, and b) I don't understand the ethos behind taking huge doses of B12 as opposed to long-term steady supplementation for a deficiency. Am I missing something here, maybe?

...That huge dose of B12 I was referring to was 15-20mg a day, with the lozenges, though I get the impression that after a while (not sure how long) you drop it back down. I was wondering what the benefit of that is likely to be, when surely a deficiency can be addressed with lower amounts
When I got up to a theraputic dose of B12, my neurological symptoms, including long-term insomnia, cleared. I was up to about 25mg. I proceed w/ my supps by observing symptoms and self-testing. From my high dose June 2014, I'm now using about 2.5mg MB12, 2mg Mfolate. It certainly seems for me, as others have described, there needed to be a saturation of long-depleted tissues.

Source Naturals makes AdB12 without folate/folic.
 

whodathunkit

Senior Member
Messages
1,160
Okay. Good to know.

I just get it straight from the Anabol Naturals site, but maybe the shipping is prohibitive to Oz...?
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
@whodathunkit - thanks for sharing your story... It's an inspiration..

I gained so much weight from CFS "treatments" ... SSRI's (I was told I had a "somatic depression" after I insisted that I wasn't depressed, so I relented... I think these drugs not only caused weight gain, but screwed up my gut even more..) and prednisone (so bad for me for so many reasons)... It's been a nightmare b/c I'm too exhausted to exercise, and I need to exercise A LOT to maintain any kind of reasonable weight.. I've never been thin, but my current weight feels very unhealthy... I crave carbs more than sweets, although I like sweets somewhat, too.

  • What do you mean by complex starches, specifically? e.g. sweet potatoes?
  • Also, which Omega-6 oils do you avoid? I don't think I eat any... I stick to butter & olive oil.. I'd like to try macadamia oil..
  • Would you say that you eat ~100 carbs per day?
  • Do you use MCT or Coconut oil to induce ketosis? did I ask you this? sorry... really out of it today.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
Yeah, the problem for me with ketosis/"fat as fuel" is that it seems to cause chronic gut problems and insulin resistance. After my first round of Atkins was when my blood sugar went really wonky and it's been weird ever since. I've read that low carb/reduced starch does cause insulin resistance (possibly in response to raised cortisol) in quite a few people, and I'm not convinced it's a good long-term daily health strategy except maybe in cases of neurological disease like MS. But that's just my opinion based on personal experience, although there has been some recent "objective" evidence that shows it, too. YMMV. There is anecdotal evidence around here for low-carb causing problems with gut flora, too.

One problem with low-carb raising cortisol is that if the adrenals are already stressed, that extra stress could harm them more. I think I may have read about that, too. I dunno. It's all very hard to tease out. I think we all just have to try these things and see how they work for us. Daily low-carb, while it seemed beneficial in the long run, is something I believe caused me long-term problems. YMMV.

how do you distinguish "low carb" from "moderate carb"? e.g <50g = low; <100g = moderate?


Anyway, IME the main drivers of cravings are lack of adequate energy production (i.e., mitochondrial dysfunction) and poorly balanced gut flora. Of course other things like nutrient deficiencies will cause cravings, too, but IME the recidivism pattern (several months or even half a year without cravings when undertaking a new eating style, followed by return cravings after a period of time) are probably due to one or both these things.

yes!! I'm a tired eater... the more tired I am, the more I crave carbs
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
I'm seriously coming around to the opinion that intermittent fasting has done as much for my inflammation levels as anything.

I say this because for over a decade I had this stubborn little pink rash across the bridge of my nose and onto my cheeks right below the pupils of my eyes. It wasn't big, and it wasn't rosacea, just red and rashy looking. Some days it would be brighter pink than other days, it would wax and wane, but it was always there.

....

For whatever that's worth. I know IF isn't for everyone but it does seem that it could be an undersung player in reducing inflammation.

I have a chronic rash on my back... sometimes it's worse..

When you fast, how do you do it? e.g, 5/2 or 16/8