How to Best Tolerate Fish Oil

[carpetbomber]

I find that I don't tolerate any fats at anything more than about 1tsp/day without falling into disabling weakness and fatigue.

I also feel increased pressure/stuck circulation around my joints when I go over my maximum fat allocation: it's like the fat is making my blood/lymph thick and sticky. My whole system just seems to grind to a halt.

This makes it impossible for me to keep my weight up. I have to strictly control carbs in order to keep the worst of my IBS/SIBO under control, so theres just not enough calories in my diet. My BMI is around 17 has bottomed out at 15 in the recent past!

Is there some missing link that is needed to get fat/cholesterol circulating through the system?

 

[Star-Anise]

Thanks @Gondwanaland & @Joh! I have tolerated algae products previously way better actually! What a brilliant suggestion. Yes, it's almost like the fish oil is good but too concentrated for me. My body needs gentleness, I'm sure everyone can appreciate, ha ha!

@Gondwanaland I think you are onto something re: estrogen=serotonin link. Reason being - it's a very similar response that I got when I have used DIM in the past, & when I have used things that are known to break down serotonin more quickly.

Wow! I really appreciate everyone's intelligence here. Thanks again

 

[Gondwanaland]

Is there some missing link that is needed to get fat/cholesterol circulating through the system?

How is your vitamin E intake, or magnesium, or resveratrol - stuff that make the blood more fluid?

I have used DIM in the past

I only took DIM 2x because I am stubborn. At the 1st dose it already felt like poison to me (suicidal thoughts). I don't know how DIM works, but my impression was it is a blocker of estrogen receptors. Perhaps the fish oil does the same thing.

 

[Star-Anise]

@Gondwanaland yes, I think that the omega 3s help with estrogen metabolism, as does DIM. I got the algae version today - will report results.

 

[Tammy]

I do much better with the plant based omegas..................hope it goes well for you.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Star-Anise @nandixon @aaron_c

FASEB J. 2014 Jun;28(6):2398-413. doi: 10.1096/fj.13-246546. Epub 2014 Feb 20.
Vitamin D hormone regulates serotonin synthesis. Part 1: relevance for autism.
Patrick RP1, Ames BN1.
Author information

• 1Nutrition and Metabolism Center, Children's Hospital Oakland Research Institute, Oakland, California, USA rpatrick@chori.orgbames@chori.org.

Abstract
Serotonin and vitamin D have been proposed to play a role in autism; however, no causal mechanism has been established. Here, we present evidence that vitamin D hormone (calcitriol) activates the transcription of the serotonin-synthesizing gene tryptophan hydroxylase 2 (TPH2) in the brain at a vitamin D response element (VDRE) and represses the transcription of TPH1 in tissues outside the blood-brain barrier at a distinct VDRE. The proposed mechanism explains 4 major characteristics associated with autism: the low concentrations of serotonin in the brain and its elevated concentrations in tissues outside the blood-brain barrier; the low concentrations of the vitamin D hormone precursor 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D3]; the high male prevalence of autism; and the presence of maternal antibodies against fetal brain tissue. Two peptide hormones, oxytocin and vasopressin, are also associated with autism and genes encoding the oxytocin-neurophysin I preproprotein, the oxytocin receptor, and the arginine vasopressin receptor contain VDREs for activation. Supplementation with vitamin D and tryptophan is a practical and affordable solution to help prevent autism and possibly ameliorate some symptoms of the disorder.

FASEB J. 2015 Jun;29(6):2207-22. doi: 10.1096/fj.14-268342. Epub 2015 Feb 24.
Vitamin D and the omega-3 fatty acids control serotonin synthesis and action, part 2: relevance for ADHD, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and impulsive behavior.
Patrick RP1, Ames BN1.
Author information

Abstract
Serotonin regulates a wide variety of brain functions and behaviors. Here, we synthesize previous findings that serotonin regulates executive function, sensory gating, and social behavior and that attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and impulsive behavior all share in common defects in these functions. It has remained unclear why supplementation with omega-3 fatty acids and vitamin D improve cognitive function and behavior in these brain disorders. Here, we propose mechanisms by which serotonin synthesis, release, and function in the brain are modulated by vitamin D and the 2 marine omega-3 fatty acids, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Brain serotonin is synthesized from tryptophan by tryptophan hydroxylase 2, which is transcriptionally activated by vitamin D hormone. Inadequate levels of vitamin D (∼70% of the population) and omega-3 fatty acids are common, suggesting that brain serotonin synthesis is not optimal. We propose mechanisms by which EPA increases serotonin release from presynaptic neurons by reducing E2 series prostaglandins and DHA influences serotonin receptor action by increasing cell membrane fluidity in postsynaptic neurons. We propose a model whereby insufficient levels of vitamin D, EPA, or DHA, in combination with genetic factors and at key periods during development, would lead to dysfunctional serotonin activation and function and may be one underlying mechanism that contributes to neuropsychiatric disorders and depression. This model suggests that optimizing vitamin D and marine omega-3 fatty acid intake may help prevent and modulate the severity of brain dysfunction.

I don't have depression or any other neuropsychiatric symptoms (or do I? At least I don't feel depressed), but I sure have low serotonin from hormonal imbalances, so I thought some of the above made a lot of sense.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Star-Anise another possibility I just remembered is that hypoglycemia can cause irritability, and fish oil lowers blood sugar.

 

[Carl]

@Star-Anise @nandixon @aaron_c




I don't have depression or any other neuropsychiatric symptoms (or do I? At least I don't feel depressed), but I sure have low serotonin from hormonal imbalances, so I thought some of the above made a lot of sense.

You probably do have some degree of depressed mood, it comes as a result of the burden on the liver and the result of kidney energy deficiency which is very common in CFS sufferers. At a far extreme comes adrenal exhaustion. It can be seen in the iris of the eyes like a segment of a cake at 6 o clock as a grey marking. The more the grey marking proceeds towards the pupil the greater the mood disturbance tends to be and the higher the background cortisol levels will be. It's the bodies adaption to stress. The adrenals are just inside the ring around the pupil and as the grey marking gets worse, the adrenals become more likely affected.

BTW it would be a chronically low mood rather than acute depression which is an unresolvable emotional state caused by low mood and being unable to resolve the issues by dreaming etc.

 

[ebethc]

I know I am extremely deficient in omega 3 fatty acids, and yet I stuggle to correct this because I have very poor tolerance to fish oils.

I have found that I tolerate them much better with some digestive enzymes ( if they have adequate lipase) tho this has also been difficult because my tolerance to enzymes is also limited.

I have also read studies that say absoprtion of fish oil is much better with a high fat meal.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how to tolerate the fish oil? Or as a larger question, why would I apparently need lipase in the first place?

Regards,
Viking

( My brief history.. severe leaky gut and food allergies following massive amounts of antibiotics, and a history of yeast, and parasites )

I have no problem w rx fish oil called Lovaza, much better than ANY of the OTC fish oils I tried (including the expensive ones). I'm guessing it's b/c the rx one is ultra-purified... No fishy burps, either. You may need lipase, too, though, b/c that's a separate issue...

 

[Star-Anise]

Just wanted to put a quick note here that the algae oil was tolerated way more easily & I am now taking it daily Not sure why. I think it has less of the active components of EPA/DHA so a little of a good thing tends to go a long ways with me, so it might be as simple as it just being less concentrated.

 

[Viking]

After further review... I get the sense that my tolerance of fish oils depended on two things. 1 Lipase ( presumably for better digestion of the fats ) and 2 Antioxidant status. The one time I tolerated the fish oil quite well, I was on both a good digestive enzyme, and on a fair amount of antioxidants. ( Vitamin C , flavonoids, selenium from brazil nuts, magnesium ) If anyone has any similar experience, or more theory on why this would have worked, please share.
@Star-Anise, is it possible your algae oil has more antioxidants than fish oil does?

 

[Star-Anise]

After further review... I get the sense that my tolerance of fish oils depended on two things. 1 Lipase ( presumably for better digestion of the fats ) and 2 Antioxidant status. The one time I tolerated the fish oil quite well, I was on both a good digestive enzyme, and on a fair amount of antioxidants. ( Vitamin C , flavonoids, selenium from brazil nuts, magnesium ) If anyone has any similar experience, or more theory on why this would have worked, please share.
@Star-Anise, is it possible your algae oil has more antioxidants than fish oil does?

Hi @Viking
The Algae product that I am using is from Whole Earth & Sea, & it is called Pure Food Marine Algae-3. When I first started to take it, I did experience a mild "buzz" akin to the fish product, but on a way lesser scale.

I'm not sure why I tolerate the algae Omegas. I have a hunch for me it is has to do with histamines. I have noticed that generally of late my intolerance to fish in general has started to increase.

Right now my place of work has to do with issues outlined here:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/love-and-hate-for-vitamin-b6.44685/page-2

I am slowly proceeding with these issues, and I believe my "intolerance" to many things, including B6, is part of a larger case of systemic inflammation or Mast Cell Activation. Essentially it is a case of low reactivity to many things with many reasons why, i.e. chronic gut flora imbalances, reactive & sensitized neurochemistry, weakened adrenal function, low thyroid, chronic hormonal balances that has resulted from early childhood stress + exposure to environmental toxins (high aluminum in environment) = poor elimination -> chronically impaired multiple systems of function.

That's my current theory.

@Gondwanaland 's suggestions re: introducing B2 & more Magnesium are assisting in settling my system as I generally am proceeding with trying to balance my hormones and neurotransmitter function, clearing aluminum toxicity, as well as support methylation.

My next step is to introduce Zinc. I am looking at starting slowly with a liquid mineral, or perhaps just a small amount of Zinc Gluconate - but even the smallest amount of Zinc in say almond milk (that is added) totally leads me to be fatigued and foggy headed for hours. I was thinking of Source Naturals, Colloida Life Trace Minerals, because then I could use a dropper, but if anyone has any other suggestions please let me know

Hope that helps! I'm not sure if your situation is like mine, but that's where I am at If your situation is like mine then perhaps the anti-oxidants would help mitigate the histamine response & calm the system. I know that you mentioned magnesium (which can have calming effect) & I have heard about Vitamin C acting as a mast cell stabilizer.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Star-Anise have you already trialled with vit B5? Usually when I take B5 I feel a B2 defficiency, and I just can't supplement B2 like anyone would due to side effects like increased uric acid, hair loss, hypothyroid, more signs (paradoxical) of vit B2 deficiency etc etc

However vit B5 activates B2 and is crucial in the metabolism of fatty acids and other stuff that interferes with (by worsening) histamine issues, such as phenols, salicylates etc. It also makes acetyl-CoA>GABA>Melatonin, so when I must take it I always do it at dinner.

I have been trying to find the perfectly customized B complex for a long time now (it's a moving target), and usually I feel best when I take no B vit at all , but sometimes I just have to even if just to stirr things a bit and unstuck from metabolic traps.

 

[Star-Anise]

@Star-Anise have you already trialled with vit B5? Usually when I take B5 I feel a B2 defficiency, and I just can't supplement B2 like anyone would due to side effects like increased uric acid, hair loss, hypothyroid, more signs (paradoxical) of vit B2 deficiency etc etc

However vit B5 activates B2 and is crucial in the metabolism of fatty acids and other stuff that interferes with (by worsening) histamine issues, such as phenols, salicylates etc. It also makes acetyl-CoA>GABA>Melatonin, so when I must take it I always do it at dinner.

I have been trying to find the perfectly customized B complex for a long time now (it's a moving target), and usually I feel best when I take no B vit at all , but sometimes I just have to even if just to stirr things a bit and unstuck from metabolic traps.

@Gondwanaland
Hi there! Yep B5 does the same thing to me I think. I have only tried B5 when I took it as part of another supplement & I noticed a variety of symptoms but basically tired/wired, so it was on my list to try it in a titrated lesser dose. I'll report back about what I find. But I believe I have a similar collection of symptoms and perhaps causes as you do.
I don't quite have a name for it - or have it figured out, but it is this collection of sensitivities to salicylates, sulfates, high-copper, & high estrogen foods that produce a variety of symptoms such as neuro-brightening - neuro-excitotoxicity, tired/wired, fatigued/foggy-headedness, insomnia, and so on. It seems to come and go. And it is generally mild enough, although inconvenient, it doesn't totally prevent me from functioning - although I do have some bad days where I seem to totally just crash. A lot of it seems to get kind of better with magnesium & of late I have been trying some Tibetan medicine approaches that have been helping to just calm my system down.

I like you tend to feel better when I avoid B's & also avoid methylation supplements (on the odd day that I take no supplements - I do seem to have a bit of a reprieve), but then I noticed that I don't actually get any better or improve on a more general scale. My health just kind of stays the same & I noticed it was maybe even slowly declining (more weight gain & fatigue creeping in). Now even though my day to day functioning seems worse & it is more challenging as I am experimenting (more mental work!), I seem to be slowly improving generally again - my bad days are not as bad, and my good days are getting quite a bit better than I have experienced for decades.
Thanks for your mentoring! It is very much appreciated