Circadian Rhythm Shift

[Plum]

Problem: Going to bed later and later because I'm not tired/can't sleep.
Currently getting to sleep around 2am. But very tired around 8-9pm. If I do sleep at 8-9pm I will only nap and then be awake for even longer before proper bed time.

Why is my circadian rhythm shifting? This has been happening for 1-2 years now and I hate it. I've had ME for 6 years. Severely for the last 3.

I sleep well for 3-4 hours then have to get up to pee. And then sleep in 1.5-2hr shifts from there due to nocturia of unknown cause. So it often takes me 9 hours in bed to get 7 hours actual sleep.

I have checked my blood sugar and it's good. I make sure I'm not hungry when I go to bed. The room is the right temperature. I read before bed. My room is really dark. I go outdoors in the day to get decent day light. I'm not a fan of drugs and would prefer to get to the root cause if anyone has any ideas?!

I do have severe adrenal fatigue that no amount of supplements has helped!

 

[alex3619]

I have seen this so many times. I see it after about year three in many ME patients, and in probably the most patients after about year ten. Nobody knows why it happens. Its a brain thing most likely, possibly to do with autonomic function and sleep. You can fight it, or you can go with it, or you can use drugs to help. Some have found that using sleeping meds but switching meds every week, say for three meds used in a three week cycle. Heapsreal, someone who used to be on this forum, had a lot to say about that. Some use melatonin but it does not work for all.

Are you working part time or have other timed commitments? If you have then you need to struggle with it, but if you don't then its less of a problem.

This might be the beginning of non-24 sleep disorder. You might like to look into that.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Heapsreal, someone who used to be on this forum

Did Heapsreal recover or did he just move on?

 

[alex3619]

Did Heapsreal recover or did he just move on?

He moved on.

 

[*GG*]

He moved on.

Ah, @heapsreal made some really good posts, hope he is ok and comes back when he can!

GG

 

[heapsreal]

Ah, @heapsreal made some really good posts, hope he is ok and comes back when he can!

GG

Thanks.
Just watch occasionally from a distance now.

 

[Hip]

Nobody knows why it happens. Its a brain thing most likely,

I did see some articles about the inflammatory cytokines IL-6 and TNF-alpha being connected to the circadian rhythm (body clock):

IL-6 and its circadian secretion in humans
"Many studies suggest that IL-6 is a putative 'sleep factor' and its circadian secretion correlates with sleep/sleepiness."

TNF-alpha suppresses the expression of clock genes by interfering with E-box-mediated transcription

Since abnormalities in IL-6 and TNF-alpha (among other cytokines) have been found in ME/CFS, these cytokines could be the basis of the messed up circadian rhythm in ME/CFS.


There are lots of supplements that can inhibit IL-6 and TNF-alpha, and one idea I had was taking an inhibitor at the right time of day or night, so that it would act to normalize the circadian rhythm.

For example, if IL-6 is a putative 'sleep factor', then taking IL-6 inhibitors from morning up to early evening, but then stopping as you get closer to bedtime, might ensure that you only get the sleep inducing IL-6 appearing at bedtime. Some IL-6 inhibitors are listed in this post.