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Ron Davis: Preliminary data shows problems with energy metabolism

panckage

Senior Member
Messages
777
Location
Vancouver, BC
Here's Ron and Janet on a rare occasion when they have alone time:

article-2582861-1C5E8FB900000578-935_634x381.jpg

:D
 

justy

Donate Advocate Demonstrate
Messages
5,524
Location
U.K
You can say the first trigger "awakens" the real problem. This view explains spontaneous remission of symptoms as the real problem fluctuates from "asleep" and "awake".

A purigenic signaling problem can't explain spontaneous remission and relapses. A danger going back and forth from hidden to present explains it.

I really can't pretend to understand what you are talking about as I don't have any kind of science background - couple that with brain fog, neuro issues and acquired Dyslexia and I am scratching my empty head. However you have piqued my interest by brining up the issue of remissions and relapses. I myself had a long, spontaneous remission to nearish normal (I could exercise but didn't have others stamina. I had 4 kids and ran around with them all day, but couldn't add in working as well etc)

This lasted approximately 8 years, during which time I believed myself to be 'cured' of M.E. It was a measles infection, picked up from my children in 2008, followed by Pneumonia that lead to a return of all M.E symptoms that has never abated and is more severe than before. I am now severe to moderate severe, as it fluctuates slightly. Apart from the odd day here and there and 6 weeks last year after lots of IV glutathione and myers cocktails I have remained severely ill.

I know there are others of us who have had remissions and then 'relapses'. @Rose49 - do you know if Ron is aware of this cohort of people? My symptoms are classic ME by any criteria (I took part in a De Paul study that confirmed this). I have also been a patient of Dr.Myhill who confirms severe M.E with mito issues as per her work and a patient of KDM who also confirms M.E (with chronic bacterial infections and gut issues).

@Ben Howell - how could the CDR mechanism explain this group of people?
 

lansbergen

Senior Member
Messages
2,512
This lasted approximately 8 years, during which time I believed myself to be 'cured' of M.E. It was a measles infection, picked up from my children in 2008, followed by Pneumonia that lead to a return of all M.E symptoms that has never abated and is more severe than before

My opion. The primary cause was deceased enough for the cellmachinery to deal with it and then came the infectious stressors and the cells could not cope anymore.
 

Snow Leopard

Hibernating
Messages
5,902
Location
South Australia
Thats not correct. It's purigenic signalling causing the persistent CDR. Danger is what causes the CDR in the first place. Not the persistence.

What maintains the persistence then? As the cellular response requires external signals (including perpetuating feedback loop(s)) to be maintained (more than just Intracrine/Autocrine/Paracrine signalling) - it is impossible for so many cells to maintain a CDR signal in perpetuity purely through internal cellular signalling - those cells will eventually be replaced by healthy cells.
 
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Ben H

OMF Volunteer Correspondent
Messages
1,131
Location
U.K.
What maintains the persistence then? As the cellular response requires external signals (including perpetuating feedback loop(s)) to be maintained (more than just Intracrine/Autocrine/Paracrine signalling) - it is impossible for so many cells to maintain a CDR signal in perpetuity purely through internal cellular signalling - those cells will eventually be replaced by healthy cells.

Hey @Snow Leopard

Honest answer to your question is that I'm not sure exactly. It would be a great question for Ron or Dr Naviaux. I am guessing, quoting the paper it may have something to do with the following:

"The systemic form of the CDR, and its magnified form, the purinergic life-threat response (PLTR), are under direct control by ancient pathways in the brain that are ultimately coordinated by centers in the brainstem".

We won't know until the research comes out however.


B
 

panckage

Senior Member
Messages
777
Location
Vancouver, BC
@Rose49 studying the severe me/cfs people is very positive because it makes it easier to detect biomarkers and because that group has never been studied before. A negative is that there are more potential confounds. A bedbound person is going to suffer from more complications (eg. deconditioning)than the milder cfs/me people.
With having only a healthy control group how does the study separate biomarkers of CFS and the complications caused by CFS?
 

Ben H

OMF Volunteer Correspondent
Messages
1,131
Location
U.K.
@Rose49 studying the severe me/cfs people is very positive because it makes it easier to detect biomarkers and because that group has never been studied before. A negative is that there are more potential confounds. A bedbound person is going to suffer from more complications (eg. deconditioning)than the milder cfs/me people.
With having only a healthy control group how does the study separate biomarkers of CFS and the complications caused by CFS?

The deconditioning card is massively overplayed and food for the psychs. I do not think that deconditioning will be responsible for much, if any of the abnormalities that are found via metabolomics.

Other complications? Possibly.



B