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Queen Mary's appeal ICO decision on PACE data

user9876

Senior Member
Messages
4,556
I didn't know that NICE recommended this, but found it easily on this page under 'Progressing with GET ':

http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg53/chapter/1-recommendations

I think that is what I was thinking of - although it is not clear as to what the targets mean.

My point being that anyone claiming to offer GET in line with the NICE guidelines then not following the guidelines should be questioned as to whether they are providing the service being paid for. That is a separate issue from whether they make claims as the the outcomes of such treatments or whether the treatments have any positive outcomes. It is also separate from the issue about harm and whether they give patients adequate information about potential harm when getting informed consent (if such a thing exists in the vocabulary of such services!).

Of course all these issues need considering and services assessed on the sum total of them.
 

Woolie

Senior Member
Messages
3,263
@Hip, I can't find the original post, but it was a comment by @Graham about the FOI request for the PACE data. Queen Mary University of London tried to argue if they released the data as requested, individual patients' identities might be revealed. Graham said:

It's astounding that the PACE team tried to claim that this data could threaten patients' anonymity. I can just imagine getting the data 60, 65, 28, 25, 10, 10, yes, yes, 4, 3, 321, 332, CBT and announcing to the world, "Yes, that's Annie Gsampel! I'd recognise her anywhere!"

Then people just ran with the idea of identifying themselves as Annie as a gesture of solidarity. A sort of parody on the "Je suis Charlie" campaign.
 

Countrygirl

Senior Member
Messages
5,466
Location
UK
I wasn't sure which of our threads on all-things PACE should include this letter from MEAction but this one is as good as any.

http://www.meaction.net/wp-content/...atient-view-of-the-PACE-Trial-Controversy.pdf
Why ME patients are critical of the PACE trial What is the PACE trial? The PACE trial is a £5 million study that promotes the view that ME/CFS patients can recover if they gradually increase their physical activity. It is based on a psychogenic theory that the debility of the disease is due to patients’ “fear of activity” and subsequent deconditioning, despite extensive evidence to the contrary. This view negatively affects how ME/CFS patients are viewed by society and cared for in medical practice.

What are the flaws in the PACE trial? A recent investigation by The New York Times journalist David Tuller reported major flaws in the study’s methodology. A letter authored by several prominent American researchers in fields as diverse as statistics, epidemiology, psychology, microbiology and genetics have written to The Lancet calling for an independent review.

Key criticisms include: changing the definition of “recovery” after the study was already underway; the failure to report objective measures included in the original trial design in favor of reporting subjective outcome measures; a newsletter distributed to patients in the middle of the experiment touting the benefits of some of the treatment therapies and critiquing drug therapies; and failure to disclose conflicts of interest. Yet when patients join these scientists in critiquing the PACE trial, they are criticised for expressing their views.

Here are a few common myths about ME patients and an explanation of what we are really fighting for: MYTH: The controversy is fueled by a vocal minority of “vociferous” ME militants on the internet Patients connect with each other on the internet because many are housebound and bedbound. Over 10,000 patients have signed a petition calling for an independent review of two studies:

http://my.meaction.net/petitions/pacetrialneedsreviewnow It has been translated into six languages.

MYTH: ME sufferers oppose GET because they are afraid of exercise TRUTH: Many ME sufferers oppose GET because exercise makes them worse. The purpose of GET is to reverse the effects of deconditioning. A large body of scientific literature demonstrates that ME is an organic illness that causes neurological, immunological, and energy production impairment. Findings include alterations in cytokines, vascular signalling, and inflammation. Twoday exercise tests which compared sedentary controls to ME sufferers found an increased debility, and degradation in max aerobic capacity (VO2Max), on the second day for ME but not the controls, proving the primary pathology is unrelated to deconditioning.

MYTH: ME sufferers oppose CBT because they are afraid of the stigma of mental illness ME patients want effective treatments, no matter their origin, and would gladly accept psychological treatment if ME were a psychological illness. ME patients are also open to psychological support; CBT is used in a wide range of lifealtering illnesses (e.g., cancer and MS) to help patients cope. But proponents of PACE style CBT claim can lead to recovery by convincing patients that they do not have an organic illness but are deconditioned.

Why these myths cause harm

1. ME/CFS is grossly underresearched, making it imperative that misleading claims of recovery are not substitutes for real science and social intervention.

2. ME/CFS patients need treatment regardless of the branch of medicine providing the solutions. However, these treatments should be based on solid scientific processes that are repeatable and objectively measurable. The processes must utilize consistent patient selection criteria, which has been inconsistent across many studies due to the lack of global consensus.

3. It is rational and logical to petition for research which could treat the underlying cause and symptoms of ME/CFS and go beyond mere coping mechanisms provided within the psychogenic model of treatment. It is rational and logical to petition for a cure.

Top researchers who have reviewed the study conclude it is fraught with indefensible methodological problems From David Tuller’s Virology article: Dr. Bruce Levin, Columbia University: “To let participants know that interventions have been selected by a government committee ‘based on the best available evidence’ strikes me as the height of clinical trial amateurism. I have never seen a trial design where eligibility requirements for a disease alone would qualify some patients for having had a successful treatment… I find it nearly inconceivable that a trial’s data monitoring committee would have approved such a protocol problem if they were aware of it.”

Dr. Ronald Davis, Stanford University: “I’m shocked that the Lancet published it…The PACE study has so many flaws and there are so many questions you’d want to ask about it that I don’t understand how it got through any kind of peer review.”

Dr. Arthur Reingold, University of California, Berkeley: “Under the circumstances, an independent review of the trial conducted by experts not involved in the design or conduct of the study would seem to be very much in order.”

Dr. Jonathan Edwards, University College London: “It’s a mass of uninterpretability to me…All the issues with the trial are extremely worrying, making interpretation of the clinical significance of the findings more or less impossible. There is no 'stigma of mental illness'. But there is an implication that there is no real illness beyond an irrational belief of being ill, for which there is no justification.
 

Yogi

Senior Member
Messages
1,132
Not sure if it has been mentioned of the date of the court hearing.

It is Wednesday 20, Thursday 21 , Friday 22 April


EA/2015/0269 Queen Mary University of
London
23-Nov-15 FS50565190 Queen Mary University of
London
Mr Alem Matthees Three Day Hearing
20,21,22/04/ 2016 -
Residential Property
Tribunal,Court H,10
Alfred Place
London WC1E 7LR

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...rmation-rights-tribunal-register-of-cases.pdf
 

John Mac

Senior Member
Messages
321
Location
Liverpool UK
The judge will then write up the judgment which is generally served on the parties within three to four weeks from the conclusion of the hearing.

Appeal

Any of the parties can appeal to the Upper Tribunal so the process is not necessarily over yet. The right to appeal is not automatic at this stage but is on a point of law only.
If any of the parties are appealing, notice must be served within a working month from the date when judgment is served on the parties.


This could drag on for a long time yet.
 

Esther12

Senior Member
Messages
13,774
That's one week before the CMRC AGM.

That meeting could be pretty funny.

Things feel so up in the air with this: the release of the PACE data would feel like a chance to really let some fresh air in and dramatically move things forward, while if they're able to keep it secret we're in for a much more drawn out trudge towards progress imo.
 

Justin30

Senior Member
Messages
1,065
Its truly Sad that a group of humans cannot see with their own 2 eyes what this disease does to people.

By them not releasing data it screams they are trying to hide something. How is this not so obvious?

It would not be going to this type of Tribunal if their was not something seriously wrong with the study.

My final thought is that Wessely and his colleagues wasted millions of $ on a study that fooled the world into garbage science and has resulted in:

- slowed research
- little funding
- decades of suffering for patients, family and friends
- Massive Economic and Financial loss
- pemature death
- suicide
 
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A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
Telling friends, family, doctors, and wider society that ME/CFS patients are basically making up a disease where there is nothing is morally criminal when patients are so sick to rely on other for help. It doesn't even stop there, these ****** are telling doctors that patients must not be taken seriously or receive medical investigation and treatment for their own good.
 
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Chrisb

Senior Member
Messages
1,051
My final thought is that Wessely and his colleagues wasted millions of $ on a study that fooled the world into garbage science and has resulted in:

- slowed research
- little funding
- decades of suffering for patients, family and friends
- Massive Economic and Financial loss
- pemature death
- suicude

With a record like that it cannot be long before he is invited to take weasel. The convention has always been for ermine, but the British establishment is endlessly adaptable and traditions can, where appropriate, be altered as well as created.
 

Sean

Senior Member
Messages
7,378
I am sure there are some suitable ancient British traditions and conventions we could co-opt for the current case.

:whistle: