Thirst for MFolate, those that have ramped up

[ahmo]

@silverseas2014 You might have already mentioned this...have you tried sublingual? I cut my doses in half by putting folate into gum line. Also, you might find coffee enemas useful in helping rid yourself of those toxins. Dietrich Klinghardt refers to toxic metals occupying zinc receptors. As they're removed, you'll likely need extra zinc to replenish all those places it's meant to be in.

@Johnmac I'm using Life Extension folate capsules. comes in 1 or 5 mg. don't know how the price compares to Solgar.

 

[silverseas2014]

@ahmo.... thank-you for your response.

Regarding sublinguals: I do not want to put anything in my gums for a significant time--do you put your sublinguals under your tongue?? And what brand of sublingual Methylfolate do you use?
I am just now getting my teeth and gums back in order and do not want anything to jeopardize that, but I have been following your journey with sublinguals and am envious at the lower levels of Methylfolate needed.

Regarding zinc: I have taken and continue to take a zinc supplement (actually a zinc/copper supplement).

Regarding coffee enemas: I have done them in the past, and found them useful. I will not rule them out for the future.

I really appreciate all your supportive ideas,

Cheers,
Silverseas2014

@silverseas2014 You might have already mentioned this...have you tried sublingual? I cut my doses in half by putting folate into gum line. Also, you might find coffee enemas useful in helping rid yourself of those toxins. Dietrich Klinghardt refers to toxic metals occupying zinc receptors. As they're removed, you'll likely need extra zinc to replenish all those places it's meant to be in.

@Johnmac I'm using Life Extension folate capsules. comes in 1 or 5 mg. don't know how the price compares to Solgar.

 

[silverseas2014]

Hi @whodathunkit .... I started my 50 mg. dose on July 7th, 2015.... so, as of today, just over two months.

Have a great evening,
Silverseas2014

Hey @silverseas2014: just wondering, how long have you been stable at 50mg?

 

[ahmo]

@silverseas2014 No particular sublingual brand. And it works just fine under tongue. I just became habituated to gum line w/ B12 lozenges. I've used both capsules and Solgar tablets. Both work fine.

 

[Johnmac]

Thanks @silverseas2014. No, analogies are all I understand too. That’s all pretty clear, thanks.

I’m 63. Like you, I notice less & less of an ability to bounce back from illness etc. Despite better & healthier lifestyle as I get older.

The Fred Protocol (when I hit the right doses) seems to fix just about everything at once - skin, mood, gut, energy, etc.

I hope I am in the group that needs less folate, for money reasons alone. Tho when I raise the energy, I will check out importing the DQs in bulk from China, where they are a fraction of the cost of iHerb. Assuring quality will then be the challenge.

 

[Johnmac]

@silverseas2014
@Johnmac I'm using Life Extension folate capsules. comes in 1 or 5 mg. don't know how the price compares to Solgar.

They seem to be roughly the same price @ahmo - tho I prefer the tablets, for sublingual.

I notice that both brands have been out of stock at iHerb recently.

 

[whodathunkit]

Update: I am indeed experiencing a renewed need for high-dose methylfolate. I suspect it's related to the sustained burst of motivation and energy that I've experienced for the last few weeks. I forgot to take my mfolate this morning and by noon my nose was running and I felt a little flu-y. 12mg stopped the symptoms but it's 6 hours later and I'm starting to feel it again.

Now I just have to figure out what's causing it. I still suspect another level of healing because I'm also experiencing some odd old symptoms from a chronic condition...symptoms that I haven't experienced in over 2 decades. The symptoms I'm experiencing were like what I experienced before the condition got really bad. Like when it was in its early stages. After it got bad I no longer experienced the symptom in this way.

I don't think it's a coincidence that this is happening after a sustained burst of energy and motivation that I've experienced the past month or so. I may be getting ready to take another two steps back after going so far forward, and before going forward again. Guess we'll see some more.

In case anyone's interested.

BTW...does anyone remember what thread or what member posted about the high-quality cheap methylfolate powder? I want to really high dose again but my wallet can't really take that hit from Solgar again. I will leave other things to go begging if it comes to that, but it will be a hard shuffle and I'd rather find and cheaper source.

 

[AlmostEasy]

@whodathunkit

5 mg
http://www.methyl-life.com/methylfolate-5.html

10 mg
http://www.methyl-life.com/methylfolate-10.html

That's basically the cheapest you're going to find. Calcium salt based, just like Metafolin

 

[whodathunkit]

Thanks, @AlmostEasy. That's not a bad price, but jeez I wish it didn't have xylitol in it. Why does everything have sweeteners in it? Have we devolved into such a race of wussies that manufacturers believe we can't take anything orally without it being so [blankety-blank-blank] sweet???!!!

Anyway...have you used this product...?

 

[Johnmac]

I talked somewhere about getting some m/f in bulk from China when I got some energy back. Which I'll do.

I'll share not only the info but the m-f if desired - i.e. split orders.

Quality will be the challenge: but they usually send samples so you can test.

In the meantime all I've done is contact Solgar, who tell me they don't ever sell direct to consumers.

 

[Johnmac]

Solgar works out at 16.4c per mg.

This one (Methyl Life) is 6.1c per mg, if you buy the 10,000 mcg version.

Which is 37% of the Solgar price.

The question then is quality. @AlmostEasy, do they work as well as Solgar?

Also, Methyl Life aren't on iHerb, & don't ship outside the US.

Finally, Methyl Life is supplied by Gnosis. And there is some controversy about their m/f products (which I don't understand).

Thanks, @AlmostEasy. That's not a bad price, but jeez I wish it didn't have xylitol in it. Why does everything have sweeteners in it? Have we devolved into such a race of wussies that manufacturers believe we can't take anything orally without it being so [blankety-blank-blank] sweet???!!!

Anyway...have you used this product...?

 

[silverseas2014]

@whodathunkit and @Johnmac ---Hello. I am updating you on my High-Dose Methylation Protocol: Shortly after I last posted, I decided to step-down my doses of Methylfolate. I also decided I would also trial a different brand (I have only used Solgar's Metafolin up until this trial), and so ordered MethylPro in various dosages.

On September 18th, (I had been at 50 mg./day of Methylfolate) I began to go down by 10 mg about every third day. So, by October 3rd, I was at 5 mg./day of Methylfolate. I had no difficulties dropping that quickly.

On Sept. 24th, the MethylPro arrived and I simply dropped the Solgar Metafolin, and began taking the MethylPro. It was a seamless transition---I noted no problems in my log. To me, MethylPro seems as good as Solgar's Metafolin (and it is a lot cheaper and more efficient---they sell capsules in 2.5 mg., 5.0 mg., 10 mg., and 15 mg.

Today, I am at 5 mg. Methylfolate (MethylPro). I am sticking there for no particular reason yet. I may even take it down to 2.5 mg./day.

I am experiencing some acne (angular cheilitus around hairline and temple) at 5 mg. of Methylfolate, but no other symptoms.

I have some suspicions that the High Penetrative doses of Methylfolate have skewed my need for the other B-vitamins---in particular Thiamine (B1) and Biotin (B5). I am working on rebalancing everything to this 5 mg. dose of Methylfolate.


In a related line of thought, I have been reading: Partial Biotinidase Deficiency, 23andme Test, BTD Gene Poll?
--I am impacted by two SNPs for Biotinidase enzyme functionality: BTD Heterozygous for rs13078881 (C) and HLCS Homozygous rs2843637----if my thinking is right, these two SNPs impact how much Biotin I can make and absorb??? I think the high doses of Methylfolate diminished my Biotin (and Thiamine) levels, and I am working on replenishing these. I am taking high doses of Biotin---just for a short while. And for the Thiamine, I take Benfotiamine--but I have been taking that for several years now.

Also, my need for lots of Potassium has also diminished ---as I expected---when I dropped my Methylfolate dose.

So, to summarize: my Deadlock Quartet doses are:

Methylfolate (MethylPro brand): 5 mg./day
MethylB12 (Kirkland): 50 mg./day
Dibencozide (Source Naturals): 1/4 tablet a day
L-Carnitine Fumarate (Dr.'s Best): 855 mg. (1 cap)/day

Plus: 1/4 tsp. Potassium Gluconate (Bulk Supplements)/day
3/4 tablet of Lithium Orotate (Advanced Research)/day

With these doses, I have been feeling great. I get up at 5 am and go all day. I get to bed about 9 pm, and am falling asleep quickly and stay asleep (most nights) until my alarm goes off. In general, my moods are quite cheerful (except when my teen is being trying)... I feel positive, focused, and get more done than before starting all the methylation trials.

I am wondering about the effectiveness of high-dose Methylfolate----I feel like at the low doses, after a few months of starts stops and not feeling great, that hiking the doses as @Freddd suggested really helped break out of that awful not feeling great, not feeling as if the DQ was doing anything to feeling better energy and having clearer thinking. High doses of Methylfolate seemed to acculturate my body to "normal" methylfolate doses.

That's it for now,
Silverseas2014

 

[Lynn_M]

Silverseas,
It appears that you think your rs7651039 (C,C) is impairing your Biotinidase enzyme functionality. Why do you think this? When I look at dbSNP, T shows as the minor allele. When I look at the population distribution, CC appears with more frequency than TT, although CT is by far and wide the most prevalent condition.

 

[whodathunkit]

I get up at 5 am and go all day. I get to bed about 9 pm, and am falling asleep quickly and stay asleep (most nights) until my alarm goes off.

Jeez, you're my new role model! I wanna be you when I grow up.

Seriously, that's great news! Good for you!

After ramping up for a short while, I, too, have been ramping down again. At this point I'm not entirely sure whether it was low methylfolate or not enough mB12 to drive what I was taking that caused the problem. I have a couple MTRR mutations that could impact B12, so for now I'm sticking to daily injections of mB12, 5 days per week adB12, plus 10mg methylfolate. I got some of the MethylLife product and it's been working well for me. Maybe a little "speedier" than Solgar at first, but it does keep the donut hole symptoms away. I may try to ramp down to 5mg eventually, but I got the 10mg tablets and it's so cheap (esp. compared to Solgar) that one tab per day is entirely economical.

And always with the LCF. I'll never stop that, either.

I guess some of us (maybe all of us, but who's to say since there's no proof either way?) just need to get topped up with these essential nutrients. That's certainly been the case with me. When I get low I start to have problems.

Anyway, good on ya!

 

[silverseas2014]

Silverseas,
It appears that you think your rs7651039 (C,C) is impairing your Biotinidase enzyme functionality. Why do you think this? When I look at db

Silverseas,
It appears that you think your rs7651039 (C,C) is impairing your Biotinidase enzyme functionality. Why do you think this? When I look at dbSNP, T shows as the minor allele. When I look at the population distribution, CC appears with more frequency than TT, although CT is by far and wide the most prevalent condition.

SNP, T shows as the minor allele. When I look at the population distribution, CC appears with more frequency than TT, although CT is by far and wide the most prevalent condition.

Lynn--- You are right, I just edited my post after re-reading my logs and notes to include the SNPs that I think are suppose to impact our ability to produce/absorb Biotin. I was using some of the information in @Radio's thread: Partial Biotinidase Deficiency, 23andme Test, BTD GENE POLL?

In Radio's post @Valentijn was instrumental in putting together the charts and data. I saw the thread too late to participate in the poll....

Cheers,
Silverseas2014

 

[silverseas2014]

Jeez, you're my new role model! I wanna be you when I grow up.

Seriously, that's great news! Good for you!

After ramping up for a short while, I, too, have been ramping down again. At this point I'm not entirely sure whether it was low methylfolate or not enough mB12 to drive what I was taking that caused the problem. I have a couple MTRR mutations that could impact B12, so for now I'm sticking to daily injections of mB12, 5 days per week adB12, plus 10mg methylfolate. I got some of the MethylLife product and it's been working well for me. Maybe a little "speedier" than Solgar at first, but it does keep the donut hole symptoms away. I may try to ramp down to 5mg eventually, but I got the 10mg tablets and it's so cheap (esp. compared to Solgar) that one tab per day is entirely economical.

And always with the LCF. I'll never stop that, either.

I guess some of us (maybe all of us, but who's to say since there's no proof either way?) just need to get topped up with these essential nutrients. That's certainly been the case with me. When I get low I start to have problems.

Anyway, good on ya!

Thanks @whodathunkit --- I am little afraid to be a role-model I did want to tell you that I place a very high priority on getting good rest (naps when I need it as well as the sleep schedule I mentioned above). Before I had even heard about methylation... I was a mess. I had spent my whole life on stimulants ---coffee, tea, coke, and sudafed---just to get through my days. In 2012, I was so exhausted even with all my coffee etc. I knew I had to get off everything to just see what shape my body was in---- I quit all stimulants, and spent months sleeping many hours a day. When I finally woke up and became more alert I started researching---PhoenixRising was one of many places I visited trying to get a handle on things. I am very grateful to you and many other contributors who share your trials, experiences both good and bad.

I feel with the DQ and other supplements I am finally turning a corner. But I really want to take the minimal number/amount of supplements to feel optimally healthy.

Thanks for your support and good cheer,
Silverseas2014

 

[ahmo]

High doses of Methylfolate seemed to acculturate my body to "normal" methylfolate doses.

Yes, whoda already said this. I also went up to high doses of both B12 and folate, and am now at a very manageable dose of 2mg each. Seems like saturation is needed. Congrats on your success, and thanks for posting.

 

[Johnmac]

Thanks a lot for that update.

As one still in the ramping up phase, it's always nice to hear of people coming out the other end of that, and ramping down.

So you have B12/folate at 10:1? That's rather unorthodox, isn't it? Glad it is working though.

Your experience further confirms the "filling the tank" theory - i.e. that you need to go high for a time to do that.

Good news too about the MethylPro. I can't see it on iHerb, so sadly I won't be able to try it.

High doses of Methylfolate acculturating you to "normal" methylfolate doses is a little counterintuitive, but it seems central to Freddd's theory. And I'm glad it's been confirmed again in you.

When I think of the years of suffering Fred endured to find all these things out for us, I am very grateful to him. It's been hard enough working through it following his instructions: I can't imagine how hard it would have been to be the first.

Thanks again, & I'm delighted you're doing so well.

@whodathunkit and @Johnmac ---Hello. I am updating you on my High-Dose Methylation Protocol: Shortly after I last posted, I decided to step-down my doses of Methylfolate. I also decided I would also trial a different brand (I have only used Solgar's Metafolin up until this trial), and so ordered MethylPro in various dosages.

On September 18th, (I had been at 50 mg./day of Methylfolate) I began to go down by 10 mg about every third day. So, by October 3rd, I was at 5 mg./day of Methylfolate. I had no difficulties dropping that quickly.

On Sept. 24th, the MethylPro arrived and I simply dropped the Solgar Metafolin, and began taking the MethylPro. It was a seamless transition---I noted no problems in my log. To me, MethylPro seems as good as Solgar's Metafolin (and it is a lot cheaper and more efficient---they sell capsules in 2.5 mg., 5.0 mg., 10 mg., and 15 mg.

Today, I am at 5 mg. Methylfolate (MethylPro). I am sticking there for no particular reason yet. I may even take it down to 2.5 mg./day.

I am experiencing some acne (angular cheilitus around hairline and temple) at 5 mg. of Methylfolate, but no other symptoms.

I have some suspicions that the High Penetrative doses of Methylfolate have skewed my need for the other B-vitamins---in particular Thiamine (B1) and Biotin (B5). I am working on rebalancing everything to this 5 mg. dose of Methylfolate.


In a related line of thought, I have been reading: Partial Biotinidase Deficiency, 23andme Test, BTD Gene Poll?
--I am impacted by two SNPs for Biotinidase enzyme functionality: BTD Heterozygous for rs13078881 (C) and HLCS Homozygous rs2843637----if my thinking is right, these two SNPs impact how much Biotin I can make and absorb??? I think the high doses of Methylfolate diminished my Biotin (and Thiamine) levels, and I am working on replenishing these. I am taking high doses of Biotin---just for a short while. And for the Thiamine, I take Benfotiamine--but I have been taking that for several years now.

Also, my need for lots of Potassium has also diminished ---as I expected---when I dropped my Methylfolate dose.

So, to summarize: my Deadlock Quartet doses are:

Methylfolate (MethylPro brand): 5 mg./day
MethylB12 (Kirkland): 50 mg./day
Dibencozide (Source Naturals): 1/4 tablet a day
L-Carnitine Fumarate (Dr.'s Best): 855 mg. (1 cap)/day

Plus: 1/4 tsp. Potassium Gluconate (Bulk Supplements)/day
3/4 tablet of Lithium Orotate (Advanced Research)/day

With these doses, I have been feeling great. I get up at 5 am and go all day. I get to bed about 9 pm, and am falling asleep quickly and stay asleep (most nights) until my alarm goes off. In general, my moods are quite cheerful (except when my teen is being trying)... I feel positive, focused, and get more done than before starting all the methylation trials.

I am wondering about the effectiveness of high-dose Methylfolate----I feel like at the low doses, after a few months of starts stops and not feeling great, that hiking the doses as @Freddd suggested really helped break out of that awful not feeling great, not feeling as if the DQ was doing anything to feeling better energy and having clearer thinking. High doses of Methylfolate seemed to acculturate my body to "normal" methylfolate doses.

That's it for now,
Silverseas2014

 

[silverseas2014]

Thanks @Johnmac ---

Yes, I take quite a lot of MethylB12.... but I don't know if the Kirkland brand is just crap---and I need a lot more to get the same effect than when I took Solgar. I hate the taste of the Kirkland brand..... and I may decide to go back to Solgar--they are definitely higher quality vitamins.

MethylPro has it's own website: www.methylpro.com I haven't seen it on amazon, iherb or any other supplement site.

I am also trialling a supplement called TUDCA (Tauroursodeoxycholic Acid) ---as I think addressing mitochondrial dysfunction might be the next step in my healing. If interested, have a look at the thread: Unfolded Protein Response and a Possible Treatment for CFS. I also have found much about TUDCA on bodybuilding forums, nootropic forums and Parkinson's forum----Mitochondria is a the focus of much interest---and how to repair, heal, support it is generating lots of discussion.

Cheers,
Silverseas2014

 

[ahmo]

When I think of the years of suffering Fred endured to find all these things out for us, I am very grateful to him. It's been hard enough working through it following his instructions: I can't imagine how hard it would have been to be the first.