Feeling worse on Rich's protocol after adding Cofactors and Folinic Acid. Most likely culprit?

[Waldemath]

Previously I was taking:

Yasko's All In One (2x)
Methylfolate (200mcg)
HydroxyB12 (1000mcg)
FMN (18mg)
Sunflower Lecithin (1200mg)
Vitamin D (2000 IU)

And I started feeling a bit better -- less muscle tension, positive mood, and one day I even had the energy to do pushups and squats!

Then, 10 days ago, I added lots of cofactors and Folinic Acid so that I'd actually be following Rich's protocol more faithfully.

I've been feeling sad most days. Sleep quality has become sporadic. Sometimes I am utterly exhausted in the morning.

For the last 5 days, I've been experiencing heartburn / indigestion, which is UNUSUAL for me. (This particular symptom may be due to my diet change. 2 weeks ago I stopped eating lots of greens and started eating lots of oatmeal and rice.)

For the last 3 days, my right bicep has been SORE for no apparent reason. It hurts when I extend my arm out all the way, right at the joint on the inside of the elbow. It hurts to lift up a heavy plate or a cooking pan. It feels like I worked out my muscle way too hard, except I haven't done anything physical in 10 days!

Here are my current daily dosages (new supplements are in bold):

Yasko's All In One (2x)
Methylfolate (200mcg)
Folinic Acid (200mcg)
HydroxyB12 (2000mcg)
FMN (18mg)
Sunflower Lecithin (1200mg)
Vitamin D (2000 IU)
Omega 3 (1000mg)
Vitamin C (1000mg)
Vitamin E Complex (400IU, 400mg)
Zinc (30mg)
Potassium (600mg)
Magnesium (200mg)
Calcium (200mg)

Yesterday I upped my daily potassium from 600mg to 1200mg. It didn't seem to make a difference. I am still feeling tense and restless this morning and my arm still hurts.

Could the Folinic Acid be causing problems? Or one of the vitamins?

 

[Critterina]

In my experience, folinic acid can cause me to feel bad. So can zinc gluconate. It's a matter of only changing one thing at a time to figure it out. I would quit all the things I added, then add them back in one at a time, taking notes every time you change something. And I would not add something new every day but wait at least 2-3 days (better more, but I'm not a patient patient.)

Look at my SNPs in my signature. Do you have the MTHFR A1298C? I think that may be related to my bad response to folinic acid. (and maybe it's in combination with my MAO A and SHMT - but who knows?) I guess the zinc reaction may be genetic, too, since my mom also feels terrible when she takes it.

 

[Waldemath]

Hi Critterina,

Thanks. I added my SNPs to my signature. I do not have A1298C.

I'm going to remove the Folinic Acid for a week and see if that helps.

If that doesn't work I'll try as you suggested and reintroduce the cofactors one by one.

 

[Critterina]

@Waldemath ,

Oh, I see, you have the MTHFR C677T! That uses folinic acid as the reactant. I heard of someone with that once who was told to take folinic and dihydrobiopterin, because with something else (MAO A or COMT, I forget) she had to get her methylfolate slowly or she would overreact. So, hmmm, no telling if that was it.

Trust your own intuition.

 

[Waldemath]

Today I decided to stop Rich's protocol and try Freddd's. Instead of my usual morning supplements, I took 1000mcg Methylcobalamin and 400mcg Methylfolate (along with some coenzymated B-2) first thing in the morning. I felt great! I exercised for the first time in 2 weeks!

Maybe the Hydroxocobalamin and/or the Folinic Acid were making me feel bad. During the month I was on Rich's protocol, I felt consistently sad, fatigued, and tense.

I'll try Freddd's protocol for a month and compare notes.

 

[Critterina]

Today I decided to stop Rich's protocol and try Freddd's. Instead of my usual morning supplements, I took 1000mcg Methylcobalamin and 400mcg Methylfolate (along with some coenzymated B-2) first thing in the morning. I felt great! I exercised for the first time in 2 weeks!

Maybe the Hydroxocobalamin and/or the Folinic Acid were making me feel bad. During the month I was on Rich's protocol, I felt consistently sad, fatigued, and tense.

I'll try Freddd's protocol for a month and compare notes.

Good to hear the good news!

I can see where your MTHFR C677T would slow down the use of the folinic acid and the MTRR A66G would slow down the use of hydroxycobalamin. Some people with those SNPs can't take the big jolt of the methyl forms, and so do well with the folinic and hydroxy. But you found what works for you, and that is super!

 

[Waldemath]

Thanks for the balloons! I will post another update in a week or so to see how the Methyl B-12 is going.

 

[Waldemath]

It's been 3 days on Freddd's protocol and I'm already feeling much better. My energy, sleep, mood, and digestion are improved. Suddenly I am doing pushups and going for 2 mile walks in the morning! Then I take a 30 minute nap afterward and I am good!

It's amazing how quickly things changed once I switched protocols. Here are the changes I made:

I switched from 2000mcg HydroxyB12 to 2000mcg MethylB12.
I increased from 400mcg Methylfolate to 1200mcg Methylfolate.
I took AdenoB12 for the first time today, holding the entire 10mg tablet under my lower lip for an hour. It was really intense but I made it through.

I am not sure if the Folinic Acid had anything to do with my feeling bad. At this point I don't think so, but I'm not inclined to investigate any further.

 

[Critterina]

Wow! That's fantastic. You make it seem so simple!

Just a warning that you may be going along fine and then crash because now you've been doing all this methylating (or whatever) and used up your next most limiting thing. So, if you start to crash (maybe soon, maybe months and months), don't try to push through it, but try to figure it out. For a lot of people, their first need is potassium, and not just a banana a day. I am not speaking from experience here, (well, I do need potassium sometimes) but mostly from what I've read on this site. Anyway, free advice worth every penny you paid - I expect you to treat it as such. And make your own decisions!

Anyway, happy 3 days!