The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[Gondwanaland]

Looks like it was mobilising calcium?

Yes, strongly and quickly. Interesting that I have taken the Thorne dops D 500mcg + K100mcg and the only effects from the K I got was the diffuse pain (in a milder version). It seemed that the D prevented the good effects to take place.

Sorry for diverting from the topic...

 

[Hip]

@adreno
Are you continuing to get good results from the Clostridium butyricum probiotic made by Miyarisan? I bought this probiotic recently on eBay (this product), and will be starting it shortly.


One interesting thing about the butyrate that Clostridium butyricum generates in the gut is that butyrate is a histone deacetylase (HDAC) inhibitor, and HDAC inhibitors have been shown to suppress coxsackievirus B3 growth in murine myocarditis.


HDAC inhibitors seem to play a role in eNOS expression (vasodilation) as well:

Induction of eNOS expression by histone deacetylase (HDAC) inhibitors trichostatin A (TSA) and sodium butyrate was observed in all four different types of non-endothelial cells examined.

Our data suggest that HDAC1 plays a critical role in eNOS repression

Source: Role of histone deacetylation in cell-specific expression of endothelial nitric-oxide synthase

Other HDAC inhibitors include: curcumin, sulforaphane, thymoquinone (from black seed oil) and valproic acid.



By the way, butter is 3 to 4% butyrate, so I wonder if eating more butter might work as well; or does Clostridium butyricum produce butyrate in far larger quantities than you could get from butter?

 

[adreno]

Are you continuing to get good results from the Clostridium butyricum probiotic made by Miyarisan?

So far, yes. Probably the best intervention I've tried.

 

[Hip]

So far, yes. Probably the best intervention I've tried.

Has anyone else one this forum / thread also tried Miyarisan and got good results?


By the way what dose of Miyarisan tablets are you taking? On the box of Miyarisan tablets I have, it says take 6 tablets three times a day after meals.

 

[adreno]

By the way what dose of Miyarisan tablets are you taking? On the box of Miyarisan tablets I have, it says take 6 tablets three times a day after meals.

Started with two, and recently increased to four.

It's all discussed a lot in the last few pages of the thread.

 

[Hip]

Started with two, and recently increased to four.

Is that 2 Miyarisan tablets a day, or 2 tablets three times each day?

Any reason you started at a dose lower than the one recommended by Miyarisan? Is that to try to prevent bad gut bacteria die off reactions?

That lower dose of course makes your improvements even more impressive. Perhaps you will gain further benefits as you ramp up the dose.

 

[adreno]

Is that 2 Miyarisan tablets a day, or 2 tablets three times each day?

Two per day.

Any reason you started at a dose lower than the one recommended by Miyarisan? Is that to try to prevent bad gut bacteria die off reactions?

Yes.

 

[Vegas]

Has anyone else one this forum / thread also tried Miyarisan and got good results?


By the way what dose of Miyarisan tablets are you taking? On the box of Miyarisan tablets I have, it says take 6 tablets three times a day after meals.

The Miyarisan strain is a game changer. I believe the benefits conferred can be attributed to more than just the enhanced availability of butyrate. This organism participates in an number of other critical metabolic processes that I think are physiologically relevant, but the increased bioavailability of butyrate most certainly explains some of the reported benefits.

While it synthesizes butyrate via secondary metabolic pathways, i.e. those which are not typically dominant in humans, butyrate-synthesizing organisms encoded with these particular enzymes typically do not produce lactic acid. This organism seems to very effectively modulate the nitrogen metabolism, which opens to door to so much more.

I tolerate 1 tab q.d.

 

[Sidereal]

Miyarisan is the single most potent and effective intervention for ME/CFS I've ever tried. My brain fog hasn't been this clear in years, diabetes insipidus gone, even slightly improved energy. Unfortunately I've also now developed painful gastritis probably from a longstanding H pylori infection. If anyone is thinking of taking this stuff I'd advise ignoring the dosing instructions on the bottle!

 

[Sidereal]

When I brought information on Miyarisan to this thread I think I was the first person to mention it here.
I had mentioned it before on another thread on K2 on Nov 19, 2014.
From my notes I see that we have been taking it since 15 Sept. 2014.

@Asklipia, it's a long thread and there is a degree of jadedness and fatigue associated with people reporting new things so next time you bring something huge like this to the thread you gotta scream "Listen up you clowns, wake up from your brain fog induced haze. You REALLY gotta try this stuff."

 

[adreno]

I have been wondering whether we should start a new thread on CB on the main forum. However, it seems every microbiome oriented thread generates very little interest, and only the "usual suspects" participates. It's quite perplexing, but there seems to be an ingrown belief that this is not very important in the context of ME. On the other hand, the "perpetual virus" theory seems vastly popular.

 

[Hip]

The Miyarisan strain is a game changer.

What symptom improvements did you get from this Miyarisan, Vegas, and how long did they take to manifest? Days, weeks, or months? Perhaps it's hard for you to say at this stage, but did you notice further improvements accruing over time, or are the original improvements just holding steady?

This organism participates in an number of other critical metabolic processes that I think are physiologically relevant,

Any specific ones that you think may have significance for ME/CFS?

If anyone is thinking of taking this stuff I'd advise ignoring the dosing instructions on the bottle!

That's useful to know. Did anyone try larger doses and then get some bad reactions? Is that why you are suggesting to keep the dose low?

I will be cautious about my starting dose of Miyarisan.

I have no problems with high doses of probiotics like Ultra Jarro-Dophilus, which has 50 billion organisms per capsule. I have taken up to 4 of these capsules in one go. Probiotics typically have around 5 billion organisms per capsule.



You guys who are finding these significant improvements from Miyarisan: you might want to start a separate thread on it. This present thread has become very long, and is always fast moving. I gave up following it a long time ago because of the information overload. I always have a limited ability to read. Just by chance I glanced at this thread while Miyarisan was being discussed.

It's always nice to "advertise" the major treatment successes that people have found beneficial in a thread with a suitably informative title.

From what I can see, Adreno started Miyarisan around about the end of February this year. So I am guessing these benefits have been holding for the last two months, and are not just the flash in the pan benefits that some ME/CFS meds can give for a week or so before petering out.

EDIT: @adreno: Whoops, my post crossed with yours about starting a new thread about Miyarisan.


@Asklipia
Did you find you also got significant benefits when you started taking Miyarisan? When did you first begin on this probiotic by the way?

 

[Sidereal]

@adreno, I'm always in two minds about starting a new thread because I know everyone but the usual suspects ignores this giant thread which means not enough people will see this. But I have a feeling that any new thread would flop hard since people just don't have an interest in the microbiome stuff or simply aren't aware of its importance. Personally, I always ignored/dismissed gut-related information in the past as some bizarre alternative medicine quackery / obsession with poop until a close friend of mine recovered from a serious chronic condition using RS. I wouldn't have believed it otherwise. Then I started reading this thread and the literature and...

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Vegas and other probiotic gurus:

I am about 150 posts behind on this thread but have a very important question that I need some urgent feedback on-

Is Bifido Infantis and/or Bifido Longum the best probiotics to take to lower histamine? Would I take just one or both? At present I have stopped taking Prescript Assist and all probiotics due to extreme MCAS reactions after eating.

I would love to hear all opinions on this and thank you to @Sidereal for all your help with this!

 

[Sidereal]

I have no problems with high doses of probiotics like Ultra Jarro-Dophilus, which has 50 billion organisms per capsule. I have taken up to 4 of these capsules in one go. Probiotics typically have around 5 billion organisms per capsule.

Jarro-Dophilus and other lactobacillus trash is nothing compared to the potency of C. butyricum so please be careful.

 

[adreno]

@Sidereal It also seems like a daunting task to explain everything from scratch to a sceptical newbie. We have put a lot of work into this thread, and I don't have the energy to go through it again.

 

[Sidereal]

@Gingergrrl, on paper B. infantis and B. longum should be useful for histamine. I have had some MCAS stuff flaring up recently and it cleared up will small doses of ecklonia cava, like 1/10th of a capsule.

 

[Gingergrrl]

What is ecklonia cava?

 

[Sidereal]

What is ecklonia cava?

It's a type of brown algae.

 

[Sidereal]

@Sidereal It also seems like a daunting task to explain everything from scratch to a sceptical newbie. We have put a lot of work into this thread, and I don't have the energy to go through it again.

I feel the same way Adreno. This thread contains an enormous amount of important information. It feels odd to just abandon it. It's impossible to summarise anyway.