Cheney on Growth Hormone

[amaru7]

@knackers323 there is no holy grail when it comes to cfs, that's right. But I think HGH is one of the most potent treatment options available. Orthomolecular Treatments have promising studies, but were nothing but disappointing to me (Vitamins, Minerals, Ribose, different supplements I paid thousands for)


When I used HGH it was for about 2-3months only

 

[amaru7]

Would Trans-d-tropin work? Is it that you are not releasing the HGH from the pituitary or that you just don't have it? I think Trans-d is off patent now (or close to it).

There is no cheap alternative to recombinant HGH for injection. All oral products don't work as good and are mostly a money making scheme. Even high dose Arginine, Ornithine etc. are limited in the effects of increasing GH/IGF-1 even though they might prove effective for non-severe GH deficiency.

 

[amaru7]

I ordered some gh yesterday and will be trying it out soon as a last intervention. If i won't recover to being able to work and do my least necessary daily duties, then I probably am going to give up on treatments for good.

Too much $$ money wasted, time, precious energy and bad sides/worsening experienced (the herxheimer kind for sure,stupid) with minimal improvements only, had high hopes reading promising studies like Dr.Teitelbaum's D-Ribose study and many more, visiting different specialists in hope they can help but it all left me frustrated, because it didn't do much for me in terms of health improvements .

While this whole thread sounds hopeful, deep in me I have my doubts that growth hormone replacement will be the missing key I am looking for so long. And right now somewhere else I was reading from an HRT specialist, who uses hgh in his clients that it's effects are very subtle In terms of muscle growth and fat loss.

But anyway, since I'm taking it for cfs and depression if I won't try I'll never know.

 

[amaru7]

here's yet another promising report on gh for the treatment of biological depression, I just hope that this time it translates to reality .

Physiology of Human Growth Hormone

Beyond its role in human growth Human Growth Hormone (HGH) has been termed a master hormone governing the activities of various subsidiary hormones and various key aspects of metabolism. Childhood HGH deficiency results in pituitary dwarfism. Adult HGH deficiency is less obviously recognisable. HGH is largely responsible for repair mechanisms. The secretion peaks in the early hours of the morning before normal wakening.

HGH secretion diminishes with age. The swiftest decline occurs in middle age. Curiously enough this is also the same age at which biological depression also starts to appear in humans.

http://www.priory.com/psychiatry/Growth_Hormone_Depression.htm

it gives also interesting information on growth hormone itself and what it does.

There are also studies using gh for traumatic brain injury, showing good results on cognitive function improving and partially restored brain parts.

 

[Hip]

There is no cheap alternative to recombinant HGH for injection. All oral products don't work as good and are mostly a money making scheme. Even high dose Arginine, Ornithine etc. are limited in the effects of increasing GH/IGF-1 even though they might prove effective for non-severe GH deficiency.

@amaru7, your are misleading people when you say that there is no cheap alternative to recombinant HGH injections. As mentioned earlier, the peptide injections used by body builders, such as CJC-1295, GHRP-2, GHRP-6, ipamorelin and hexarelin, work well to increase HGH.

This study for example found that the peptide CJC-1295 worked perfectly well as a HGH substitute. And in fact CJC-1295 was more convenient, as unlike HGH, it only needed to be injected once a day for normalization of growth in the mice.

This article compares HGH injections with HGH stimulating peptides, and finds a number of significant advantages of the peptides over HGH.


Certainly there are many oral HGH products out there, like "homeopathic HGH" and the like, that do nothing, and are cons, and purely sold as a money making scam.

And yes, taking high doses of HGH secretagogues such as arginine, ornithine, alpha GPC, creatine, glutamine, etc only has a very limited and weak effect in raising HGH.

But injectable HGH stimulating peptides work, and are a cheaper, easier to obtain and a safer alternative to HGH.

 

[amaru7]

Certainly there are many oral HGH products out there, like "homeopathic HGH" and the like, that do nothing, and are cons, and purely sold as a money making scam.
And yes, taking high doses of HGH secretagogues such as arginine, ornithine, alpha GPC, creatine, glutamine, etc only has a very limited and weak effect in raising HGH.

agreed, all these products advertised to increase in HGH but fail as being either non-effective or very weak.

@Hip yes, injectable secretagogues work well as opposed the oral ones, but not the same as the very well studied rHGH, that is available for over 30 years now, manufactured big pharmaceutical companies. As for secretagogues you need a well-working pituitary (considering the product contains what it says). And don't get me started with your "article" website, that is advertising the peptides for sale

I know bodybuilders use these, but still in conjunction with the full spectrum HGH, as it offers other benefits. If you're able to afford it. GHRH peptides are in no way safer than HGH, you are misleading ppl. The only reason the side effects are lower is, when compared to high-dose HGH, because with secretagogues it's not possible to reach suprapysiological levels, that do come with side effects. HGH in physiological levels (1-2IU) is perfectly safe and side-effect free,

I'm going to use about 4-5IU's a day, which is still moderate high dose, but low compared to what some bodybuilders take (10IU+) in hope that I'll get my health and energy back. I've asked bodybuilders if it does anything in terms of muscle gains, which would be a nice addition, but they told me withous AAS, which I'm not planing to take, I'll be disappointed

 

[ahmo]

@amaru7 Thanks for the interesting Myhill link in your sig.

 

[Hip]

Sure, with HGH releasing peptides, you are not going to be able to get to supraphysiological levels such as those obtained with 4 IU of HGH daily.

But with peptides, you would be able to normalize your HGH levels if they were deficient. And bear in mind that HGH deficiency symptoms can be very similar to those of ME/CFS, and so there may be patients on these forums who think they have ME/CFS when in fact their problems is HGH deficiency, which can be corrected.

This post lists adult human growth hormone deficiency symptoms.

If you were a HGH deficient patient, then one way to find this out might be to take some of these HGH releasing peptides, which are cheap and very easy to obtain.



ME/CFS patients do have a reduced nocturnal secretion of HGH and IGF-1, this study found. Though I don't think that was to the level of proper HGH deficiency.



I am not sure if such supraphysiological levels of HGH have been tried in ME/CFS patients. In this study:

Effect of growth hormone treatment in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome: a preliminary study

twenty ME/CFS patients were given around 1.5 IU of HGH daily. The study found that although no quality of life improvements were found, four patients were able to resume work after a long period of sick leave.

Certainly it would be interesting to hear your results with 4 IU of HGH daily.

 

[amaru7]

happy that you found it interesting @ahmo
My neurotransmitters like dopamine, adrenaline, nor-adrenaline and serotonin, GABA were all tested to be below range. Unfortunately most of the treatment options I tried failed me, the last thing I'm going to try is HGH, which is supposed to help according to that article. (Couldn't find other studies/articles on that very connection, but many say HGH has good effects on mood and mental clarity, which could be through improving NT levels)

And it makes sense, the dopamine and serotonin, two of the most important neurotransmitters in the brain, have amino acid precursors and HGH is supposed to improve protein synthesis so maybe I'm onto something.

Otherwhise I'll just have to live with being disabled and suffering for the rest of my life, I spent more of my energy than I had without result and now my mind tells me to do a reality check, because maybe for my case there really is no effective treatment. (I don't fulfill all cfs criteria anyway like immune dysfunction, which I tested in Berlin charite clinics for immunology and with a doctor plus I don't have a sudden onset of the disease, noone really knows what I have) been ill since I was about 14, am 30 now and life is passing me by

 

[amaru7]

Here's an interesting thread by @xks201
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ss-story-with-igf-1-of-a-female-friend.30948/

Hope he joins this discussion here as he seems to have a long experience with HGH use in connection with CFS, I remember he said even a friend of his was able to get back to work after HGH injections, which sounds very hopeful to me.

 

[xks201]

Been on gh about 2 years. 3 ius aka half cc per night of nutropin. getting it was a b.... typing this on my phone.
Ivy league 30 year experience endo didn't even know how to order the tolerance tests or where to get them. They didn't even have the tools to do them at that uni hospital. Went to another endo and she screwed up the test the first time using the wrong doses and using 2 stimulating agents at once....arg and glucagon. you are only supposed to use one per test. Finally after I noticed she did it wrong we re tested and the dose was still wrong of arginine so I told the nurse to change it to the proper dose and she did. I failed the test so I got rxed gH. This was after my igf 1 on blood tests came back 130 to 150. Ref range is like 101 to 400. 100 In my opinion is braindead. I'm in my 20s so naturally I should be higher than 130. Dumb endos all said 130 was normal just like they had said low t was normal because it was in range. Anyways I bet the endo I'd show deficient on the stimulation test and sure enough I made little to no gh during that test.

Gh I would say is a miracle if you are low on it but I'm very tempted to say it isn't the cause of cfS. Muscle gain and body fat trimming is easier. I would say those bits of psychological instability that come with cfs are quite decreased on it and body weight is easier to maintain but as far as energy I mean I'd say it's a 5 out of 10 boost. I don't think it's the panacea for people that have been dealing with fatigue and mental overactivity issues their entire life. Right now I've been pondering the strange resemblance this disease has with like mody diabetes. I bet everyone on this forum would fail a glucose tolerance test with associated insulin levels drawn at the given times with it. Other hormones influence insulin sensitivity. Seems to me it's pretty obvious there is some blood sugar factors involved in a lot of cases that aren't detected for whatever biochemical compensation MechanismS that may be occurring. Gh can increase insulin sensitivity overall while temporary decreasing it after the bolus. It's definitely worth an igf 1 blood test . If you are under 150 I'd say push for the more advanced testing. If you live in a totalitarian medical regime that won't allow it then good luck.

Gh is paradoxical because it gives me more bursts of energy but as far as sustained energy throughout the day would be concerned I still think that mechanism is defective. Truly disturbing. I can lift heavy on it but I can't recover anymore from heavy liftinG. Maybe the inflammation is driving reverse t3 conversion. Gh has straightened out a lot of people's fatigue though if it wasn't necessarily genetic so it may be worth a try. I like probably everyone here have a tendency to push harder fast the more energy I get so it skews my interpretation of my progress I suppose.

The reason no one has cured CFS is because there isn't one cause. I doubt there is one person on the planet that isn't afflicted with a negative mutation. . Everyone is rallying around elevated cytokines as a diagnosis for this "disease" yet I can name 10 things off the top of my head that will do that or 10 deficiencies that will cause that and there are a lot more I am sure.

I think it is this almost religious view of CFS that I see sometimes here on the forum of people saying like.... "oh well then that must not have been CFS" or "oh well that definitely doesn't sound like you had CFS"...lol...I bet you 5 pct of the people on here in groups have the same cause. Another 5 pct have another cause...etc etc...and a bunch of 1 pct groups. It gets complicated when you consider the mixed contributing factors mentioned above.

Enough of that diatribe. My point was that GH can help a ton if you have a low igf 1. I call low under 150. Don't know the units off hand but they are used in every USA igf 1 test result I have seen.

 

[xks201]

Generally 1 iu of gh will raise your igf 100 points. The doses Cheney recommends are too small here. You take it at night so sleepiness and whatnot isn't an issue. I think he overplayed the whole side effect profile of it as its pretty benign. I haven't checked my igf 1 since I started it. Some crazy bodybuilders take like 10 ius a night. Teenagers and children are on some nights making probably 6 or 7 ius equivalent. go too high on the dose and insulin resistance may occur but I haven't heard of anyone having any negative effects at 3 iu or under. If you have water retention problems sometimes it can add to that minorly. I don't know of anyone being prescribed direct igf1. That stuff would be majorly expensive and I have no idea what pharmaceutical company would even make it.

 

[awkwardlymodern]

IGF-1 (mecasermin), brand name Increlex, is a prescription approved by the FDA for pediatric patients only and yeah it's super expensive because no insurance pays for its use in adults.

It can only be prescribed to adults for "experimental use." There are very few doctors who will prescribe it, I've looked into it--I've only heard of it being given by 1) research docs conducting clinical studies and 2) overpriced and less reputable doctors usually in anti-aging or sports medicine, so you can expect to pay a LOT for their services, if you can afford them at all.

 

[amaru7]

My GH is ordered and soon I'll be able to start taking it. (600IU)
I have mixed feelings on it, on one hand I think it won't do much, because I'm so used to be chronically ill that I can't imagine how it would feel to regain, even just a part of my health back. On the other hand I'm hopefull that it would at least decrease my suffering/improve activity level,

 

[Hip]

@amaru7
It will be very interesting to hear your results with the HGH. Please keep us posted.

 

[srmny]

I started Humatrope when I was in my bed bound stage of CFS. I was tested and qualified for insurance to pay. I have never really understood the dosage so I think of it in "clicks" of my pen. I had been sick for 3 years and was treated by the head endo at Columbia Presbyterian in NYC. I was referred to him by my CFS doc. Since he did not believe in CFS he treated me like a normal patient. Watch out for that if your endo is a nonbeliever.

My sister was diagnosed before me and from the start she felt better. With each increase in dosage she felt "great!" She also dropped 30 pounds in a few months. If I had not seen what it did for her I would have quit the first month.

I felt like my body was fighting the GH. I felt worse than ever. My endo couldn't understand it. He had never had a patient complain or go off it. Everyone felt great. I fell asleep with my head on his desk at appointments. With each increase in clicks I would feel a little better but always worse than when I started the injections. Every 3 months I went up a click and hit bottom again. When I hit 4 clicks I stayed there and it took me about a year for my body to adjust and stop crashing.

I stayed on it until 2014. So I was on it for 14 years. I never did lose any weight but did lose 30 pounds when I came off it. I went off it because I started to have local reactions to the injections. I kept reducing the clicks and still had the reactions. When I got back to 1 click and still reacted I decided I did not feel much different on the lower dose so I decided to go off it.

I think the GH did help me get out of bed. I can't be sure because I went from mostly bed bound to mostly housebound after 5 years with CFS and I think that frequently happens with CFS. I think of it in terms of being acutely ill to becoming chronically ill. I did not have even 1 "good day" until my third year. That is just my experience and what I have surmised from reading various CFS forums.

If I had a do over I would wait until I adjusted to each increase before I went up in dosage. I would also begin on a every second or third day schedule. I would also advise you to check your IGF1 every 3 months. However I think my IGF1 numbers increased at close to the normal rate. I just felt worse than ever. Also, give it a 1 year trial.

I hope growth hormone helps you. Just give it a chance.

 

[amaru7]

@amaru7
It will be very interesting to hear your results with the HGH. Please keep us posted.

yeah, I will

 

[Hip]

I just came across this excellent website which provides refreshingly accurate information about human growth hormone and human growth hormone brands:

The complete truth about HGH (Human Growh Hormone)

The author is a retired production line engineer who used to set up pharmaceutical production lines for making HGH. He said he was fed up reading all the misinformation and nonsense written about HGH online, and this was the motivation for setting up his website.


This page is particularly useful:

Best HGH: Why are some growth hormone brands better than others?


And this page is quite informative regarding how Western pharmaceutical companies tried to sully the good name of Chinese HGH products, which are 10 times less expensive than the HGH produced in the West, but according to the author, of equal quality:

Why is it difficult to buy real HGH online?

 

[Eeyore]

There are some simpler ways to raise growth hormone. High dose niacin can raise it for one - although that can both uncomfortable (flushing) and serious (liver/muscle/other) side effects, so should be done only under a doctor's care.

High doses though can cause a surge in the release of hgh.

 

[Lou]

yeah, I will

@amaru7 Any interesting results yet?