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Sexism in science: Peer editor tells female researchers their study needs a male author

JaimeS

Senior Member
Messages
3,408
Location
Silicon Valley, CA
Ugh, @SOC. That's awful.

But familiar. I was always blown away by the level of incompetence men could get away with at one ex-workplace in particular. All the women knew we were pedaling faster, too, which made it even more awful.

Want the cherry on top? The woman who got as much leeway as the boys perched on the boss's desk and flattered and flirted. She behaved as though all the men in the building were her superiors, worthy of tender attention. I mean, you gotta love the classics.

-J
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
Ugh, @SOC. That's awful.

But familiar. I was always blown away by the level of incompetence men could get away with at one ex-workplace in particular. All the women knew we were pedaling faster, too, which made it even more awful.

Want the cherry on top? The woman who got as much leeway as the boys perched on the boss's desk and flattered and flirted. She behaved as though all the men in the building were her superiors, worthy of tender attention. I mean, you gotta love the classics.

-J
Yep. My most annoying story in this vein came from a sad situation. One of my classmates (a male) developed Hogkin's Lymphoma and was trying to stay in engineering school during treatment. Another female student and I were taking notes for him when he missed class and helped him with homework. We all had a couple of years of engineering school under our belts, so we knew our abilities at that point. We women were A students and our friend was a C student.

One day we got a homework set back with F's on it, even though it was perfect. Both of our papers had notes that said our work looked too similar to that of our male friend so we must have copied off him and that we should learn to do our own work instead of copy off our classmate. :jaw-drop::mad: Apparently it made more sense to this idiot that two A students would copy off a C student rather than that we had taught that C student so his work looked like ours.

Despite the fact that our friend went to the professor and explained that he was missing a lot of class due to his therapy and we, his friends, were teaching him the subject and that if anyone should be accused of copying it should be him (not that he was copying, he was just working the way we had taught him), the professor refused to believe that the women were not the inferior students. We never got our grades on that homework set changed, even though tests demonstrated that we were the A students and our friend the C student.

Fortunately, that ass was the exception, rather than the rule, in my department. Unfortunately, he went on to become head of the department a couple decades later. I can only hope he learned something in the intervening years.

My daughter, who spent 6 years in the same department 35 years later, had none of those kinds of problems. At no point did she feel discriminated against or that she had to be better than the boys. :thumbsup: I believe that is because all her professors went through their educations and careers with those of us in the main wave of women entering engineering and knew first-hand what women in engineering can actually accomplish -- exactly the same things the men can. Things are improving in some places, at least.

We women in engineering used to say that things are not going to get better until a bunch of (bigoted egotistical old fart) men die out. That seems to be the case.
 

Snow Leopard

Hibernating
Messages
5,902
Location
South Australia
One of my engineering profs many years ago said that if he had to hire an engineer without any information about his/her background and had a choice between a male engineer and a female engineer, he'd pick the female because at that time all the women were in the top 20% in the class.

This is still true in many fields of science (at least in my anecdotal observation), from the post-grad level and onwards, women tend to be substantially smarter/harder working than average.
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
This is still true in many fields of science (at least in my anecdotal observation), from the post-grad level and onwards, women tend to be substantially smarter/harder working than average.
Not surprising, imo. When the odds are so much stacked against them, the weaker half (or more) of the population is going to fade away and find an easier life. That leaves the stronger/smarter/harder working women (in this case) as the only women left, so naturally the average quality of the women students is higher. It's so blatantly obvious it's hard to figure how the bigots can mentally construct a scenario that makes the women in the field inferior. But then, they're bigots, so there you are. ;)
 

Kyla

ᴀɴɴɪᴇ ɢꜱᴀᴍᴩᴇʟ
Messages
721
Location
Canada
wow. this guy seems like a real charmer:

http://time.com/3915617/women-science-tim-hunt-nobel-sexist/

Nobel prize winner Tim Hunt told a room full of high-ranking scientists and science journalists Wednesday that the trouble with “girls” working in science is that “three things happen when they are in the lab … You fall in love with them, they fall in love with you and when you criticize them, they cry.”

And his apology was basically...to stand by his original statement, but apologise that he "caused any offense"
 

Scarecrow

Revolting Peasant
Messages
1,904
Location
Scotland
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rs-their-study-needs-a-male-author/?tid=sm_fb

"After submitting a scientific manuscript for peer review -- the process by which scientists uninvolved in a study will decide whether it's fit to publish -- two female researchers got a nasty shock: The sole review attached to their rejected study suggested that bringing some men into their team might fix all its problems..."

At the bottom of the Washington Post link that you provided, when it said:

Want more science? Give these a click:


I genuinely thought that read "Want more science? Give these a dick"
 

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
I had to search for the date as it's a pet peeve* of mine if it isn't printed in bold letters at the top of the page. When I did, my jaw dropped! What an idiot. Can you imagine being a woman working for this guy? Oh wait, he probably doesn't hire women!:devil:

Barb

*Just ask the moderators about my annual plea to put the date written at the top of each post. They make some feeble excuse about priorities, software limitations and imply to just get over it! Okay, I lied about the last! :whistle:

Just kidding!
 

eafw

Senior Member
Messages
936
Location
UK
the trouble with “girls” working in science ...

Funny how these men never say: "the trouble with "boys" working in science is that we are unable to see women as fully functioning human beings, and therefore the logical thing for us to do is lock ourselves away until we can learn to behave like civilised grown-ups"
 

Scarecrow

Revolting Peasant
Messages
1,904
Location
Scotland
wow. this guy seems like a real charmer:

http://time.com/3915617/women-science-tim-hunt-nobel-sexist/
Nobel prize winner Tim Hunt told a room full of high-ranking scientists and science journalists Wednesday that the trouble with “girls” working in science is that “three things happen when they are in the lab … You fall in love with them, they fall in love with you and when you criticize them, they cry.”
And his apology was basically...to stand by his original statement, but apologise that he "caused any offense"
I'm wondering if he may not be a little confused and if on this occasion two out of three ain't bad. How did that nursery rhyme about George IV go?

Georgie Porgie pudding and pie
Kissed the girls and made them cry
 

Snow Leopard

Hibernating
Messages
5,902
Location
South Australia
Funny how these men never say: "the trouble with "boys" working in science is that we are unable to see women as fully functioning human beings, and therefore the logical thing for us to do is lock ourselves away until we can learn to behave like civilised grown-ups"

The sad part is that attitudes of men in science simply mirror the attitudes of men outside of science (within their generation).

People seem to have an expectation that scientists will be more socially aware because they are far more intelligent than average, but that doesn't seem to play out in reality.
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK

Sir Tim Hunt FRS and UCL
10 June 2015

Quad300px.jpg


UCL can confirm that Sir Tim Hunt FRS has today resigned from his position as Honorary Professor with the UCL Faculty of Life Sciences, following comments he made about women in science at the World Conference of Science Journalists on 9 June.

UCL was the first university in England to admit women students on equal terms to men, and the university believes that this outcome is compatible with our commitment to gender equality.

- See more at: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0615/100615-tim-hunt#sthash.EHjpylYE.dpuf
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
Sir Tim Hunt FRS and UCL
10 June 2015

Quad300px.jpg


UCL can confirm that Sir Tim Hunt FRS has today resigned from his position as Honorary Professor with the UCL Faculty of Life Sciences, following comments he made about women in science at the World Conference of Science Journalists on 9 June.

UCL was the first university in England to admit women students on equal terms to men, and the university believes that this outcome is compatible with our commitment to gender equality.

- See more at: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0615/100615-tim-hunt#sthash.EHjpylYE.dpuf
Well, hurray for that!

I'm not sure exactly what rules you folks have for knighting people, but I'm getting to the point where when I see 'Sir' in front of anybody's name, I have the urge (despite severe PEM) to run away as fast as possible.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
People seem to have an expectation that scientists will be more socially aware because they are far more intelligent than average, but that doesn't seem to play out in reality.
Science has a lot more socially unaware people, I think, than most professions., except, possibly, accountants (based on my experience). In my opinion they are more likely to blunder, but hopefully also more likely to learn from it.

Its a lot like programming. A lot of the best programmers are not happy in groups, and thrive solo. However its also the case that the most sought programmers are often the ones that work well with others.
 

Snow Leopard

Hibernating
Messages
5,902
Location
South Australia
Science has a lot more socially unaware people, I think, than most professions., except, possibly, accountants (based on my experience). In my opinion they are more likely to blunder, but hopefully also more likely to learn from it.

Its a lot like programming. A lot of the best programmers are not happy in groups, and thrive solo. However its also the case that the most sought programmers are often the ones that work well with others.

There seems to be a common myth that science is not a social field. On the contrary, many fields of science require more socialisation and networking than most white collar jobs. The most successful scientists are those who network and collaborate frequently.

Yet this is a problem in terms of equality, if there are ingrained social divisions, due to race, gender, disability and so forth.
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
This item was just on the news round-up on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, which makes it major national news - which is good, because women shouldn't have to put up with this kind of crap in 2015. It ought to be big, surprising news that a major figure is behaving this way.