Iodine protocol and B12

[Tammy]

@ Zensational.......If you have been taking iodine for a long time..........you may want to take a significant break. The reason not to take sea salt, kelp etc the same day is because you don't need anymore iodine sources on top of already taking the iodine...........this would be too much for the system............in my opinion. I am curious.....how much Iodine you are taking a day and how many times a day?

 

[Zensational]

That's a good idea. I can see where that might be a bit much. I am taking the Celtic Sea Salt.
I am taking 4 drops of Lugol's 2% iodine which is equivalent to about 10 mg of iodine/iodide I believe.
I am also doing the co-factors.

 

[Tammy]

That's a good idea. I can see where that might be a bit much. I am taking the Celtic Sea Salt.
I am taking 4 drops of Lugol's 2% iodine which is equivalent to about 10 mg of iodine/iodide I believe.
I am also doing the co-factors.

I think I was only taking mcg's of detoxified iodine..............it's been some years............you might want to see if taking less will help prevent the anxiety and insomnia. Best of luck

 

[picante]

I have Hashimoto's and I take iodine. What prompted me to try it was that I read Dr. Abraham and Dr. Brownstein on iodine.

A couple searches online told me they were right about iodine being OK for Hashi's patients as long as we take selenium, too. (There's a Japanese study that you can find easily with a search.) I started taking Lugol's. I started with one drop transdermally. ( 7% Lugol's, 1 drop = 7.25 mg) No adverse reactions then, and none when I titrated up.

My mercury fillings had been removed several years before that. Mainly I was hoping to have better thyroid function, which it may have done, but it was hard to tell, because I was still so tired (I didn't know anything about my methylation problems yet.)

Also I was hoping for fluoride & bromide detox, and especially perchlorate. But nothing drastic happened, good or bad.

I didn't know what it was doing, really, until I stopped it for a while. Apparently, it had gotten me to menopause (finally) at age 56, because when I stopped Lugol's, I started spotting. When I went back on it, just after I turned 57, I stopped.

 

[Rand56]

I have never had any serious detox effects from taking Lugol's 5%. Just some acne breakouts for only a few days when I started on it. So this minor reaction is probably telling me I'm not that mercury toxic, despite the fact I still have mercury fillings. I went as high as 100 mg's with no problems, but I did back off on that because I know iodine can also be pro-oxidant.

On occasion I will take SSKI. I even went as high as 300 mg's a couple days in a row with no problems. I get a positive effect, because SSKI is a good expectorant, and I'm a smoker.

 

[xena]

I've been taking 100 mcg for 3 days now and am feeling really brain fogged and tired now- the first two days I felt great but with mild hyper symptoms, tremors .although yesterday I also had a weird almost hallucinatory partial sleep/wake state for a few hours. Do y'all think that is enough iodine to cause bromide detox symptoms?

@whodathunkit @picante @Tammy

I have been doing the supportive supplements (selenium, c, mg, sea salt) for some time now but i am increasing doses now.

I don't think I have a significant heavy metal burden as I have taken high doses of r-ala with no problems

FYI i have mild tissue hypothyroidism and take 75 mcg t4; though i have halved the dose these three days to mitigate hyperthyroid symptoms. I also have a very high rt3 but can't tolerate t3 at present

 

[picante]

Do y'all think that is enough iodine to cause bromide detox symptoms?

100 mcg is very little. Either you're taking more (100 mg???) or you are very sensitive. Or it doesn't combine well with something else. How long have you been taking T4?

This is guesswork, since I don't know your past labs, but the high RT3 could be from the T4. Unless it was already that high before you took T4. RT3 is created from T4, whether from your own or from your meds. It can't be created from T3.

Also, I think that the Free T3 measurement includes both active T3 and RT3. I think it's the total of both.

 

[xena]

100 mcg is very little. Either you're taking more (100 mg???) or you are very sensitive. Or it doesn't combine well with something else. How long have you been taking T4?

This is guesswork, since I don't know your past labs, but the high RT3 could be from the T4. Unless it was already that high before you took T4. RT3 is created from T4, whether from your own or from your meds. It can't be created from T3.

Also, I think that the Free T3 measurement includes both active T3 and RT3. I think it's the total of both.

i'm taking a tiny amount from a 1 mg capsule; at most it's 200 mcg. Or I'm thinking the increase in t3 from the iodine is directly causing detox from some other mechanism.

I think the high rt3 is likely from the t4 as well but now that i'm on it, i'm struggling to wean off of it. i'm trying to support adrenals now and eventually switch to part t3/t4. however my ferritin is very low and my cortisol is low too so i have the other correlated risk factors of low conversion; plus my liver function seems pretty shitty. but i can't supplement iron/milk thistle due to porphyria so it's a dead end there. i was actually taking the iodine hoping to increase t3/clear rt3 by reducing need for t4. i guess i'm going to back away from the iodine for the time being though. ;/

i also took some alcar and citicoline today morning after not taking these for a while but i've taken those many times in the past with no ill effects other than the occasional headache. perhaps there's some kind of synergistic action from the iodine and these. i also unwisely have been taking glisodin so then again maybe it's that... note to myself not to add so many meds at once

 

[whodathunkit]

Do y'all think that is enough iodine to cause bromide detox symptoms?

Yep. And from what I've read only iodine affects bromide excretion. No other chelator does it. So using ALA wouldn't affect bromide toxicity. If you're really iodine deficient it's reasonable to suppose that even a tiny amount of iodine could get things stirred up, since your body prefers iodine and will eject bromide from the receptors if it has iodine available.

You could try adding more salt and magnesium. You don't say how big a dose you're taking but I had to load quite a lot of both of these when I was first adjusting to iodine. Selenium is somewhat less benign in larger doses, so I never went much above 400mcg/day with that, but I would go quite high with the others, to very good effect. But be careful with these as in all things, and go to tolerance. Read up on it before you decide what to do or how high to try.

I can't speculate on the effect of iodine with thyroid hormone meds, however. I have NO experience with combining iodine with anything besides OTC raw thyroid glandulars. So my advice is to read and educate yourself about the ramifications of taking specific hormones with iodine.

Worth noting (again) is that I did have to chelate with things other than just ALA before I could tolerate iodine. I did a few rounds of chelation and then circled back to iodine + salt and mag loading. Worked well for me but YMMV.

Also worth noting is that Cutler specifically says don't use r-ala for chelation so maybe it doesn't work the same as regular ala. Just tossing that out there in case r-ala is not really a chelator like the r&s form. In which case you could have some kind of metal burden but not know it, if your experience with r-ala is your only barometer for your heavy metal toxicity. I don't remember *why* Cutler says don't use r-ala, only that he says it. I actually take r-ala daily, but not for chelation. I use regular ALA for that.

And thanks for reminding me...time to take R-ALA and ALCAR.

 

[xena]

Yep. And from what I've read only iodine affects bromide excretion. No other chelator does it. So using ALA wouldn't affect bromide toxicity. If you're really iodine deficient it's reasonable to suppose that even a tiny amount of iodine could get things stirred up, since your body prefers iodine and will eject bromide from the receptors if it has iodine available.

You could try adding more salt and magnesium. You don't say how big a dose you're taking but I had to load quite a lot of both of these when I was first adjusting to iodine. Selenium is somewhat less benign in larger doses, so I never went much above 400mcg/day with that, but I would go quite high with the others, to very good effect. But be careful with these as in all things, and go to tolerance. Read up on it before you decide what to do or how high to try.

I can't speculate on the effect of iodine with thyroid hormone meds, however. I have NO experience with combining iodine with anything besides OTC raw thyroid glandulars. So my advice is to read and educate yourself about the ramifications of taking specific hormones with iodine.

Worth noting (again) is that I did have to chelate with things other than just ALA before I could tolerate iodine. I did a few rounds of chelation and then circled back to iodine + salt and mag loading. Worked well for me but YMMV.

Also worth noting is that Cutler specifically says don't use r-ala for chelation so maybe it doesn't work the same as regular ala. Just tossing that out there in case r-ala is not really a chelator like the r&s form. In which case you could have some kind of metal burden but not know it, if your experience with r-ala is your only barometer for your heavy metal toxicity. I don't remember *why* Cutler says don't use r-ala, only that he says it. I actually take r-ala daily, but not for chelation. I use regular ALA for that.

And thanks for reminding me...time to take R-ALA and ALCAR.

i think i figured out what happened to cause symptoms- i took a bath in fluoridated water for the first time after starting iodine. generally also i take baths w/ a ton of epsom salt added and this time i didn't. perhaps the mg or the sulphate in the epsom salt usually binds fluoride. also i generally drink RO water so i wouldn't be getting FL from that

thanks, i think i will try loading with salt for longer. i have been taking around 400 mg for months now. and 200 mcg selenium. i may also move up on the selenium. RN i am moving to pursue mold avoidance so i guess this isn't the best time to start getting bromide detox. on the other hand, i think optimizing my thyroid function would probably help liver and other detox stuff work better! go figure.

am i understanding correctly that salt loading is drinking a lot of water w/ sea salt added? like several tsp per day? maybe i should read brownstein's book or something. is there a resource you would especially recommend?

no problem i didn't know that the r/s form was more chelating. i have mainly used the r form but did use r/s unintentionally for a while. i didn't get noticeable detox symptoms though i still really need to get checked for heavy metals sometime.

 

[whodathunkit]

am i understanding correctly that salt loading is drinking a lot of water w/ sea salt added? like several tsp per day?

That's how I do it. But I think eating as much salt as necessary by any means is considered "loading". Drinking it is a fairly pleasant way to get it, though.

i think i figured out what happened to cause symptoms- i took a bath in fluoridated water for the first time after starting iodine.

That might do it.

Keep us posted on how you do, @xena!

 

[Gondwanaland]

i also took some alcar and citicoline

so adding iodine you were taking 3 supplements that lower estrogen at the same time
you might have had a strong hormonal imbalance from this combo
there has probably been a cascade effect in other hormones as well like insulin for instance

apart from the backlash on adrenals, that is...

 

[xena]

so adding iodine you were taking 3 supplements that lower estrogen at the same time
you might have had a strong hormonal imbalance from this combo
there has probably been a cascade effect in other hormones as well like insulin for instance

apart from the backlash on adrenals, that is...

wow okay never considered that. what would cause the backlash on adrenals? is that an bromide detox issue?

and thanks @picante @whodathunkit @Gondwanaland you all are so smart!

will keep you posted.

 

[whodathunkit]

so adding iodine you were taking 3 supplements that lower estrogen at the same time
you might have had a strong hormonal imbalance from this combo
there has probably been a cascade effect in other hormones as well like insulin for instance

This is a good point about potential hormone imbalance. I very recently did myself a big dumb dirty trick by experimenting with niacin, which totally SCREWED my hormones (including thyroid) and cortisol. Just figured it all out yesterday, in fact, and started up with daily oral iodine ingestion again for a while (had been using topically but now seem to need a bigger dose). After only two days of largish dose of iodine and upping my OTC thyroid glandulars I'm warmer (had gotten chronically chilly over the last several weeks) and my energy is better.

Now I just have to dig myself out of the hole with my uterine fibroids, which are thought to be caused at least in part by hypothyroid (I was for years) and which are now a big, uncomfortable mess sitting more like rocks than ever in my lower abdomen. Plus, pushing more on my bladder now. The fun never ends.

 

[Gondwanaland]

This is a good point about potential hormone imbalance. I very recently did myself a big dumb dirty trick by experimenting with niacin, which totally SCREWED my hormones (including thyroid) and cortisol. Just figured it all out yesterday, in fact, and started up with daily oral iodine ingestion again for a while (had been using topically but now seem to need a bigger dose). After only two days of largish dose of iodine and upping my OTC thyroid glandulars I'm warmer (had gotten chronically chilly over the last several weeks) and my energy is better.

from your description the amount you took was liver toxic to the point of impairing thyroid

Now I just have to dig myself out of the hole with my uterine fibroids, which are thought to be caused at least in part by hypothyroid (I was for years) and which are now a big, uncomfortable mess sitting more like rocks than ever in my lower abdomen. Plus, pushing more on my bladder now.

Just recently I tried serrapeptase to lower fibrinogen and read it is also recommended for fibroids. I also read it can be a biofilm buster. I am not tolerating it very well and gotta find out what to do It causes profuse sweating 15-20 min after taking it

The fun never ends.

 

[whodathunkit]

from your description the amount you took was liver toxic to the point of impairing thyroid

I think this is way over-simplifying the problem, but don't want to hijack this thread and get into that debate here. Suffice it to say the mechanism of action of niacin on hormones and thyroid seems pretty complex and I'm pretty much kicking myself every day for doing this. I was feeling a little stuck and looking to shake things up. I didn't follow my own standard advice of not jumping from thing to thing in search of the next level of getting better and feeling good. And this is where ignoring my own advice landed me. There's a lot of crappy information out there (about everything but also niacin) and I know better. But then, negative reinforcement is usually a pretty good teacher.

Again, don't want to hijack the thread but will say I never got much good out of serrapeptase for fibroids. I've tried it a couple times, once for quite a long time (six months or so). Big old nothing there. I'm not bothered by any of the other things I remember it's supposed to help, so can't testify to its efficacy on anything else like joint pain. But I suspect that if the fibroids are large or well-established (long-standing condition), serrapeptase just can't help much. But that's just my suspicion, for whatever it's worth. I might be completely wrong.

 

[picante]

And from what I've read only iodine affects bromide excretion. No other chelator does it.

The same is true for perchlorate detoxification, AFAIK. And possibly for fluorine compounds, since it's a halide, too. I wonder if anyone who's been "floxxed" has managed to detox with iodine.

 

[whodathunkit]

I wonder if anyone who's been "floxxed" has managed to detox with iodine.

Hey, picante, what's floxxed?

An update, in case anyone's interested: iodine seems to have resolved at least 95% of hypothyroid symptoms. I'm no longer chilly, got lots more energy, sleep is better, etc. I also went through my period (maybe the iodine helped bring that on, hard to say) which seems to have resolved the worst of my fibroid symptoms. They still feel bigger than before I started the niacin, though. Turns out after some more digging that niacin can also promote angiogenesis. Increased blood supply could be why my fibroids acted up so badly.

Anyway, back to the point: oral iodine ingestion seems to have turned the tide on the hypothyroid, in a very short amount of time. I'm also doing some fun things like painting the skin on my neck in the thyroid area and also the skin on my abdomen in my uterus area with Lugol's 5%. I'm going to keep doing this (oral ingestion + painting) for a while to see if I can't get my fibroids to go down some more. Maybe douche for a while, as well, since there are anecdotal accounts that iodine douching is beneficial to fibroids.

No need to thank me for TMI.

Thank God for iodine.

 

[picante]

Hey, picante, what's floxxed?

That's when a doctor prescribes one of the fluoroquinolone antibiotics and you wind up with a chronic illness from it. There are people here on PR whose illness was triggered by a fluoroquinolone, such as Cipro.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/10/20/fluoroquinolones-side-effects.aspx

 

[sflorence]

Hey, picante, what's floxxed?

An update, in case anyone's interested: iodine seems to have resolved at least 95% of hypothyroid symptoms. I'm no longer chilly, got lots more energy, sleep is better, etc. I also went through my period (maybe the iodine helped bring that on, hard to say) which seems to have resolved the worst of my fibroid symptoms. They still feel bigger than before I started the niacin, though. Turns out after some more digging that niacin can also promote angiogenesis. Increased blood supply could be why my fibroids acted up so badly.

Anyway, back to the point: oral iodine ingestion seems to have turned the tide on the hypothyroid, in a very short amount of time. I'm also doing some fun things like painting the skin on my neck in the thyroid area and also the skin on my abdomen in my uterus area with Lugol's 5%. I'm going to keep doing this (oral ingestion + painting) for a while to see if I can't get my fibroids to go down some more. Maybe douche for a while, as well, since there are anecdotal accounts that iodine douching is beneficial to fibroids.

No need to thank me for TMI.

Thank God for iodine.

So what are your energy levels like nowadays? At first lugols gave me lots of energy but now it just makes me fatigued. I can definitely feel my adrenals take a hit when I use it. I have done a number of chelation myself but I still believe that I am very heavy metal toxic.

All of my thyroid labs came back normal, but I show every sign of hypo thyroid. I cannot bear the winter because my hands and feet become so cold..