The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[Sidereal]

I didn't realise bifido produce lactate too...

VSL3 helped me with my OI (I think - something did, and it's the most likely) but something has been making me so knackered that overall, I haven't improved functionally - which I think might also have been the VSL3.

I'll have a go with PA and see what that does.

But I thought PA gives you migraine?

 

[Sasha]

But I thought PA gives you migraine?

It gave me migraine at a capsule/day but not at a lower dose (I tried it for 10 days). I was thinking of going back onto the lower dose.

 

[jepps]

I shifted this study here in a glutamine thread: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-bcaas-glutamine-and-pem.36829/page-3#post-58
I also have friends, who have problems (physical and mental) with low dosages of Glutamine.
I also read, that @Gestalt benefitted from Glutamine. Sometimes I thought by myself to try higher dosages for leaky gut, but when I do not know, whether it changes the gut flora or not, it´s no thought for me.

 

[whodathunkit]

@jepps, the supplement my doctor put me on for leaky gut has glutamine in it. 3g/tablespoon. I like it.

Interesting that glutamine is supposed to help beneficiallyo shift the bacterial balance in obese people. I may give glutamine another look for weight loss.

 

[adreno]

Miyarisan told me I have to work harder for my commission, so here goes:

In vivo experiments showed that treatment with MIYAIRI 588 reduced CDAA-diet-induced hepatic lipid deposition and significantly improved the triglyceride content, insulin resistance, serum endotoxin levels, and hepatic inflammatory indexes. We also found that MIYAIRI 588 substantially increased the activation of hepatic adenosine 5′-monophosphate-activated protein kinase (AMPK) and AKT and the expression of lipogenesis- or lipolysis-related proteins. MIYAIRI 588 also improved CDAA-diet-induced delocalization and substantially decreased the expression of the tight-junction proteins intestinal zonula occluden-1 and occludin in CDAA-diet-fed rats. Further, the MIYAIRI 588-treated rats also showed remarkable induction of nuclear factor erythoid 2-related factor 2 (Nrf2) and its targeted antioxidative enzymes, which suppressed hepatic oxidative stress.

In vitro studies revealed that treatment with sodium butyrate (NaB) also activated AMPK and AKT and enhanced Nrf2 expression by precluding ubiquitination, thereby increasing the half-life of the Nrf2 protein. Pharmacological studies and siRNA knockdown experiments showed that NaB-mediated AMPK activation induced the phosphorylation and nuclear translocation of Sirtuin 1, leading to the increased assembly of mammalian TOR complex 2 and phosphorylation of AKT at Ser473 and subsequent induction of Nrf2 expression and activation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3656030/

Now, that sounds nice, doesn't it? AMPK activation certainly seems like a hot potato in ME research these days. It seems butyrate also activates AMPK, which in turn activates Sirtuin 1, which is also nice. And NRF2 activation is nice, too. This one is central in protecting white matter from demyelination. Overall, very nice, I should say.

 

[Vegas]

I don't know how many details I can give you at this time. As said, the CB has improved symptoms relating to energy, standing tolerance, PEM, etc. It seems to have highly reduced the malaise and feeling of sickness that I normally have.

Also there has been a feeling of slight overstimulation, like high catecholamines.

Finally, it seems I have had a constant head cold since starting it, things are pouring out of my nose and my lymph nodes in the neck feel slightly sore.

Thanks for the response. I think there is something to be gained by inhibiting the TLR-4 & MD2 inflammatory pathways.

I've had those sinus symptoms, which I think is a positive development. Of course the lymph nodes in my neck have been sore for about 3 years, which is getting old. There is a trend of less and less inflammation, including lymphatic soreness as I continue to find ways to diminish this. This was absent in the immunosenescence of severe ME/CFS. I have generally stated that the awakening of the immune response is first perceived in the head/neck.

Have you tried beet root for your dysautonomic symptoms? Might be worth a shot, esp. if you have tested posititve for SRB. I also find flaxseed (not oil) very beneficial. I think I have experienced an increase in Testosterone.

 

[Vegas]

Miyarisan told me I have to work harder for my commission, so here goes:



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3656030/

Now, that sounds nice, doesn't it? AMPK activation certainly seems like a hot potato in ME research these days. It seems butyrate also activates AMPK, which in turn activates Sirtuin 1, which is also nice. And NRF2 activation is nice, too. This one is central in protecting white matter from demyelination. Overall, very nice, I should say.

Butyrate does do a lot, but elevated H2S concentrations inhibit its oxidation in the colonocytes, and impair respiratory chain function, so you have to deal with that too. That is why I would be curious if beet root powder and flax seed would be of any benefit to you. The source of nitrate is enzymatically converted in the digestive tract (starting in the mouth) and this lowers concentrations of H2S which inhibits mitochondrial respiratory function. I know some are concerned about worsening BP via the effect on NO, but both gaseous signalling molecules have vasodilatory effects, so if you do in fact have a high concentration of SRB and hence H2S, the transient decline in this GSM will, I think, likely lead to bp stabilization.

One related benefit of flax is via PPAR, as the fatty acid content can nitrated by nitrous acid forming No2-FA's and this will inhibit PPAR and produce other anti-inflammatory changes. NO2-FA inhibits XOR and was found to be more potent than allopurinol in its inhibition of superoxide.

 

[Asklipia]

@Vegas we are so happy with Miyarisan. There is an unexpected effect : sudden appetite for salami and dried sausage! This has been going on for a couple of months after starting the C. butyricum and is now waning, even though we still take the Miyarisan. Could this be nitrates related? The last two weeks it did not happen.

 

[adreno]

@Vegas we are so happy with Miyarisan. There is an unexpected effect : sudden appetite for salami and dried sausage! This has been going on for a couple of months after starting the C. butyricum and is now waning, even though we still take the Miyarisan. Could this be nitrates related? The last two weeks it did not happen.

That's funny, I've been craving bacon lately, and just today I was roaming through the sausage section of the supermarket (but didn't find anything I liked).

 

[adreno]

Have you tried beet root for your dysautonomic symptoms? Might be worth a shot, esp. if you have tested posititve for SRB. I also find flaxseed (not oil) very beneficial. I think I have experienced an increase in Testosterone.

My seasonal allergies cross react with raw beet, so I think I'll pass on that. I got a pretty bad allergic reaction to apple pectin, another cross reaction. I have no problems with flax though, and would be willing to try it if you think it'll help. I thought flax was estrogenic?

 

[adreno]

I know some are concerned about worsening BP via the effect on NO, but both gaseous signalling molecules have vasodilatory effects, so if you do in fact have a high concentration of SRB and hence H2S, the transient decline in this GSM will, I think, likely lead to bp stabilization.

I have no idea if I have SRB, but I was just theorizing today that I probably need more NO. Something about the lysine I've been taking making me feel worse, although it does keep the cold sores at bay.

 

[Vegas]

@Vegas we are so happy with Miyarisan. There is an unexpected effect : sudden appetite for salami and dried sausage! This has been going on for a couple of months after starting the C. butyricum and is now waning, even though we still take the Miyarisan. Could this be nitrates related? The last two weeks it did not happen.

I'm not sure, was there a parallel craving for some high nitrate foods like arugula (I think y'all call that Rocket).

 

[Vegas]

My seasonal allergies cross react with raw beet, so I think I'll pass on that. I got a pretty bad allergic reaction to apple pectin, another cross reaction. I have no problems with flax though, and would be willing to try it if you think it'll help. I thought flax was estrogenic?

So what cross reactions are we talking about, tree pollens? If so, what kind. Some of these pectic substances require bacterial "counterparts" for modification. The hydrolysis of polygalacturonic acid is clearly dependent upon numerous microorganisms.

Flax seed favorably influences the good estrogen/bad estrogen ratio.

 

[adreno]

So what cross reactions are we talking about, tree pollens? If so, what kind. Some of these pectic substances require bacterial "counterparts" for modification. The hydrolysis of polygalacturonic acid is clearly dependent upon numerous microorganisms.

Not entirely sure, but I think birch pollen.

 

[Vegas]

I have no idea if I have SRB, but I was just theorizing today that I probably need more NO. Something about the lysine I've been taking making me feel worse, although it does keep the cold sores at bay.

You can test this. (Now I sound like the one pushing products.)

http://www.iherb.com/BeetElite-Nitric-Oxide-Indicator-Strips-10-Count/58188

I'm inclined to believe that some of the observed bioenergetic gains is attributable to lowering H2S concentrations. I see some discussion of nitrogenous compounds providing some symptomatic relief; this might be particularly dramatic with elevated H2S concentrations.

P.S. lysine is one of two amino acids that can be metabolized into your friend butyrate

 

[JPV]

@Asklipia and @adreno

Regarding cravings of foods containing nitrates. I'm not sure how the different forms of nitrites and nitrates factor into this but here's some info that I found...

Clostridium butyricum ammonifies nitrite, but not nitrate

Clostridium butyricum strains DSM 552 (ATCC 19398) and ATCC 8260 grow with nitrite and hydroxylamine, but not with nitrate as the sole nitrogen source. Nitrite is largely converted to extracellular ammonium. The nitrite reductases are neither repressed by NH4+ nor induced by NO2−, and are located in the cytoplasm. Methyl viologen and ferredoxin, but not NADH, serve as electron donors. No evidence for a nitrate reductase was found in either strain.

And...

Nitrate assimilation in Candida nitratophila and other yeasts

Nitrate assimilation has been studied in four species of yeasts; Candida nitratophila, Candida utilis, Hansenula anomala and Rhodotorula glutinis. Ammonium-grown cultures of these organisms did not assimilate nitrate but acquired the capacity to do so after a 3 h period of nitrogenstarvation. Ammonium inhibited nitrate assimilation completely in nitrate-grown cultures of R. glutinis. WithCandida spp. ammonium and nitrate were assimilated simultaneously but each was assimilated at a lower rate than when either was supplied alone. Nitrogen-starved cultures of C. nitratophilacontained enough nitrate reductase activity to sustain high rates of nitrate assimilation. Results indicate that the high levels of nitrate reductase in nitrate-grown cultures of C. nitratophila do not limit nitrate assimilation. Nitrate assimilation appears to be limited by nitrate uptake and/or the supply of reducing equivalents for nitrate reduction in these cultures.

 

[Gondwanaland]

P.S. lysine is one of two amino acids that can be metabolized into your friend butyrate

Vegas, how to reconcile your statement with the following one, being lysine a biotin precursor

What Does Candida Yeast Need to Grow

The most common candida species all assimilate and ferment glucose (sugar and fructose) as a carbon source. The carbohydrate xylitol, however, suppresses its growth. Most of the candida species require biotin for growth, although candida krusei does not require any vitamins to grow. Knowing this, websites suggesting biotin as a way to control candida are giving you bad information. 1, 2

 

[Vegas]

Not entirely sure, but I think birch pollen.

so this list commonly includes: kiwi, apples, pears, peaches, plums, coriander, fennel, parsley, celery, cherries, carrots, hazelnuts and almonds. Are these problematic?

I have no idea if I have SRB, but I was just theorizing today that I probably need more NO. Something about the lysine I've been taking making me feel worse, although it does keep the cold sores at bay.

Vegas, how to reconcile your statement with the following one, being lysine a biotin precursor

Lysine & Biotin? I'm not sure I understand the connection. Are you referring to microbial utilization of biotin impacting the synthesis of this amino acid? Most lysine is coming in from the protein you consume. Lysine can be metabolized as a secondary, but prodigious, pathway for the bacterial synthesis of butyrate. It most likely takes on a much greater role in humans with carbohydrate deficient diets, but you have to have the requisite infrastructure and (organisms and their products) to realize butyrate production from protein. Starch is the best fuel for butyrate, but it brings other problems in the lucky few that call PR "home."

A shift towards lysine as the primary substrate for butyrate synthesis generally involves adopting to a diet less likely to stimulate growth of candida. I'm pretty sure I am not answering your question cause I don't understand exactly what you are asking me.

 

[Vegas]

@Asklipia and @adreno

Regarding cravings of foods containing nitrates. I'm not sure how the different forms of nitrites and nitrates factor into this but here's some info that I found...


And...

Thanks for posting this.

As I have written, there is a breakdown in the nitrogen cycle and its implications are numerous.

We would seek organisms with both nitrate and nitrite reductase capabilities. By design, many of these commensal organisms also posses rhodanese, which handles hydrogen sulfide. Bacterial nitrite reductase appears to supplement the electron transport chain creating a proton motive force to pump hydrogen ions. This has a lot to do with pH, which massively alters the equation. You also have to have the ability to convert organic nitrogen into ammonium.

Too much nitrate (biologically converted to nitrite) causes methemoglobinemia, which is actually one of the ways that our bodies rescue us from H2S toxicity and could produce symptomatic improvement in ME/CFS. It is that balance of soil organisms (or marine counterparts) that I am trying to identify.

 

[Asklipia]

I'm not sure, was there a parallel craving for some high nitrate foods like arugula (I think y'all call that Rocket).

No. In fact we used to eat lots of arugula but parallel to the salami craze has come a total disregard for arugula!
Maybe because the salami provides the nitrates AND something else.
I suspect this maybe lysine? Apart from salami, pork in general is tempting, but our preference goes to cured pork. But this could be because the pork meat in sausages includes all kinds of bits that are not available in a pork roast.