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Methylfolate moderates stocking-glove numbness, as methylcobalamin previously did

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,561
Location
Seattle
That's always the problem isn't it @Freddd, that many of these symptoms are similar to other B deficiencies.

Regarding the nervous disorders, the only thing that stands out for me is the emphasis on the "syndrome of drastic swings between lethargy and hyperexcitability -- and that thiamine often helped stabilize them", perhaps due to helping control or stabilize blood sugar issues.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
That's always the problem isn't it @Freddd, that many of these symptoms are similar to other B deficiencies.

Regarding the nervous disorders, the only thing that stands out for me is the emphasis on the "syndrome of drastic swings between lethargy and hyperexcitability -- and that thiamine often helped stabilize them", perhaps due to helping control or stabilize blood sugar issues.


Yes indeed. That is why for B12 deficiency diagnosis by the symptoms one used a pattern of symptoms from different systems (layers). So the "classic triad" was abnormal fatigue, beef-red sore burning tongue and various neuropathy symptoms. That is why often tiny details about symptoms that make distinctions can be the clues. In the symptoms lists there are something like 10 muscle pain descriptions. Each one or two of them point at different nutrients. Nonspecific sympotms one at a time are non-specific however a group of them can be very specific.
 
Messages
27
Location
Florida West Coast, USA
But sounds like at least 'pre-diabetes' or metabolic syndrome, or possibly insulin resistance? I'm discovering the same thing in my own case. My A1c is also 5.5, and I've also been having quite severe issues with my eyes for the last 7-8 months or so.



That is really interesting that the folate lowers your glucose readings @ChetRoi. Really, really interesting. I'm curious if you've found that taking 'too much' folate causes your glucose to drop too far?

Also, have you looked into thiamine injections or benfotiamine for the blood sugar-related neuropathy? Might help as well. Or chromium to help regulate/stabilize glucose levels?

Sorry for the delayed response, @dannybex.

I have not pushed folate much past 10mg/day. With a steady 7mg/day in three doses, or 10mg in a single dose, I haven't had a glucose reading below 77.

Interestingly, after taking a 10mg dose in the morning, I have seen a five day slide of glucose readings (and numbness) from about 110 down to 77, then five days coming back up. During this ramping period I limited my daily B-9 to 1.6mg. I have only been able to cause this effect three times, and I don't understand why, as yet. Perhaps some threshold with the Sorbitol pathway.

Although I used the word "shot" in an earlier post, I meant to indicate a single, large dose, not an injection. I do only oral supplements because I have more control over the quality and (incremental) dosing.

Thanks for the tip on chromium; I will investigate.

BTW, my current focus on polyneuropathy is the Sorbitol pathway activation threshold, and downstream pathologies such as those which may affect Schwann cells and their synaptic (and other) function. I have identified a glucose connection to the numbness (my DNA, at least) and so that is where I'll be for a while.

@Freddd, thank you for you earlier comments, particularly pointing out the cycles.
 

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,561
Location
Seattle
Interestingly, after taking a 10mg dose in the morning, I have seen a five day slide of glucose readings (and numbness) from about 110 down to 77, then five days coming back up. During this ramping period I limited my daily B-9 to 1.6mg. I have only been able to cause this effect three times, and I don't understand why, as yet. Perhaps some threshold with the Sorbitol pathway.

Interesting, thanks @ChetRoi. I never heard of the sorbitol pathway. But just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, you took a large 10mg dose of methylfolate, then over the next five days (while you were taking 1.6mgs of methylfolate), your glucose reading dropped 23 points?

Have you noticed any drop or perhaps an up and down fluctuation say an hour or so after taking a more moderate dose on any particular day? Just wondering, because if you took just the folate, and then saw a drop, and was able to reproduce that several times, then that would be very interesting -- and helpful for many to be aware of -- as perhaps some of the symptoms attributed to low potassium for example, might instead be due to hypoglycemia?
 
Messages
27
Location
Florida West Coast, USA
Interesting, thanks @ChetRoi. I never heard of the sorbitol pathway. But just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, you took a large 10mg dose of methylfolate, then over the next five days (while you were taking 1.6mgs of methylfolate), your glucose reading dropped 23 points?

Have you noticed any drop or perhaps an up and down fluctuation say an hour or so after taking a more moderate dose on any particular day? Just wondering, because if you took just the folate, and then saw a drop, and was able to reproduce that several times, then that would be very interesting -- and helpful for many to be aware of -- as perhaps some of the symptoms attributed to low potassium for example, might instead be due to hypoglycemia?


Yes to the first question; 1.6 or thereabouts, on average, of MB-9. The glucose reading dropped about 30 points over five days, then came back up about 30 points over a second five day period.

With regard to your second question, I have not tested that frequently. I am using inexpensive consumer-grade meters and they are not accurate enough to reveal useful data at that level of granularity.

Read up on the Sorbitol pathway. It is a "channel" activated when too much glucose is in the system--hyperglycemic conditions. Most clinicians would look at my numbers and say they are not indicative of hyperglycemia but that is what is happening to me, evidenced by the rapidly advancing numbness when the glucose numbers move much above 100.

However, there are more than a few scholarly papers which discuss how methylfolate helps folks with diabetic neuropathy. Search on www.scholar.google.com.
 

melamine

Senior Member
Messages
341
Location
Upstate NY
but after I nearly killed myself in the bath tub fainting from sudden, severe blood pressure drop while on it

Hi @PennyIA - off-topic, but your reaction is called "cardiotoxic hypotension." I got it 3 times in about 12 years from Darvon or Darvocet. The reason I took it two more times after the first is because doctors did not tell me what had caused my symptoms. It was taken off the market for that reason - killed some people.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
Yes to the first question; 1.6 or thereabouts, on average, of MB-9. The glucose reading dropped about 30 points over five days, then came back up about 30 points over a second five day period.

With regard to your second question, I have not tested that frequently. I am using inexpensive consumer-grade meters and they are not accurate enough to reveal useful data at that level of granularity.

Read up on the Sorbitol pathway. It is a "channel" activated when too much glucose is in the system--hyperglycemic conditions. Most clinicians would look at my numbers and say they are not indicative of hyperglycemia but that is what is happening to me, evidenced by the rapidly advancing numbness when the glucose numbers move much above 100.

However, there are more than a few scholarly papers which discuss how methylfolate helps folks with diabetic neuropathy. Search on www.scholar.google.com

Hi ChetRoi,

The Japanese did a study of intrathecal 2.5mg MeCbl injections for Diabetic neuropathies. It helped a lot for as long as the cerebral spinal fluid cobalamin stayed high, <3months to > 4 years (last follow-up I read). This is just like the results of high dose MeCbl studies, other dosing methods, with people having MS and ALS. The MS/ALS studies showed functional improvements for the period of the continued high doses of the study, fading after it ended. Another difference, people with CFS, FMS, MS, ALS, Parkinson's and others all have been shown by research to have low CSF cobalamin and elevated CSF MMA and/or Hcy whereas diabetes isn't known to have that situation to my knowledge, though I must admit it isn't anything I have read up on.
 
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