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My Chronic Fatigue Recovery Story

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WoolPippi

Senior Member
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I'm happy you are on the mend!

I can see how emotions wreck the body, to me it's all interconnected and chemical. There's no such thing as "the mind" according to the body ;)

The bodily stress system is very real. It runs from neurotransmitters to amygdala to pituitary to adrenals to hormones that affect all organs and all cell functions. Merely thoughts and emotions can switch it on. And keep it on.

It will not cause ME (imo) because other things are in play too (the ability of the body to detox, of cells to utilize all substrates, of all substrates being available). But it is crucial for healing I feel. So glad you work it! I do to, after being ill for six years. I too am on the mend. (but it's not the only thing I need to keep doing)

Once again: wonderful you discovered your cure! And that you are doing it, consistently. Proud and celebrating with/for you.:thumbsup: Thank you for posting. anna
 

WoolPippi

Senior Member
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556
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all the stories tell me is that we have different illnesses.

I think you are very right.
Actually in the whole of your post, I think you are very right.

The idea of associating psychological factors to guilt, willpower or weakness is preposterous. Anyone approaching someone with ME from that angle should be .... let me think... I can't because brainfog. But they are very wrong and they can go sit in a bucket. Far far away from us.

(OP needs no bucket. OP is not tying together psychological factors of the illness with guilt, willpower or weakness)
 

free at last

Senior Member
Messages
697
Well I partly recovered. But it was a long hard slog. and I am still not totally recovered after 19 years.
Though I suspect I am doing a lot better than many here.

Even though I am on two powerful anti biotics as I speak ,due to a resurgence of abscess infections, don't ask where.

I have had. My liver recently swollen, so I turned completely yellow. my gall bladder has stones causing hospital stays twice recently with immense pain. possibly causing the liver problem.

I have a sciatic nerve in my leg to my foot that has started recently, causing numbness and immense pain.

My bones ach. Especially after I sleep. my groin achs.

I get twitching muscles all over my body. Though I had that before CFS

I get head achs and head pains. My eyes ach especially after sleeping. and seem to be receding into my head ?

with dark or blue rings under them.

Muscles in my legs go weird and hurt on and off. but hasn't gone away since the CFS started 19 years ago.

I get heart palpitations. sometimes so bad. they last for days.

My nose is partly swollen on one side. they think rhinitis allergic or not. I sound like I have a cold every morning.

But the flu feeling I had for so many years has improved dramatically.

though I still occasionally get the jelly legs, light headed. And slur a lot when I speak when not feeling great or slightly tired.I Forget everything all the time. this is now after I recovered lol.

Had the most horrific flu type onset with temperatures many many times leading to this illness.
Felt so ill like I had swine flu. And it was just as sever. with respiratory symptoms, as well as flu type. I had to walk around outside to get air, because I just wanted to collapse. and was scared of the power of it.
then I went back in and collapsed.

this illness threatened to drive me into a insane asylum. Because of outright fear, because of its un remitting power.

This lasted off and on with varying gaps in time between attacks no more than about 12 weeks .but sometimes less. all with temperatures around 102 F I had this I dunno 5 or 6 times maybe more.i forgot. I consider this the onset or damage period.

Then at least another 5 years profoundly ill. with flu like symptoms. but now with out temps but still sweating at night, about every 4 days.

so would recover feel better for 3 or 4 days then off again into the flu type feelings for another 3 or 4 days.

with bizarre symptoms like itching in my throat , and chest irritations.

After the flu like attacks. profound nausea that lasted at least 24 hours after every crash. leading to a short (only ever days) recovery. After another 5 years with more of the same. but longer and longer recovery periods weaker and weaker attacks. I started recovering more and more. But I am still always ill with something. how much is the CFS I am not sure. Also I have been
Mentally destroyed by a illness that leaves me too scared to even go into a supermarket for fear of catching something for 6 months of the year. During the winter.
Any way talk therapy lol. anger release. erm

You didn't have what I had. what ever I had. They said it was ME But doctors don't get a lot right if you ask me

But hey its good you feel good again. im glad your doing ok. and I think you really thought you was helping everyone. Some how I don't think you are. But you likely didn't know that so its not your fault
 
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free at last

Senior Member
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697
Its weird reading her story. she talks of crashes. But her crashes are my good days after 19 years.:(
She did not have what I had.

Either I didn't have CFS or she didn't Its weird how this dustbin diagnosis. leaves many of us with completely different illnesses And all be badged with the same label, at the very least there are subsets. of patients with similar onset and histories . But others with completely different onset and histories.
It just has never all felt the same to me. Its not the first time ive looked at others stories and thought. Damm that's not even close to where I was at.
Its a weird illness no wonder we get disbelief. when even our friend Dr Edwards likely struggles to unify this illness. Can it even be unified. Sometimes I seriously doubt it
Though ive waited a large part of my life for it. above all I want justice for me. I wan t justice for everyone here. I want apologies from medical people who should have known better.
But without science and at least some kind of unification, its like its never going to happen. My heart goes out to all those still in the deep grip of the flu type ME. what ever that is
 
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SOC

Senior Member
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7,849
But they are very wrong and they can go sit in a bucket. Far far away from us.
I had to break my posting hiatus to thank you for that. :D The image has daughter and I :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: You will now be with us forever because we intend to steal your expression and use it as often as necessary... which I expect to be very often given the social/political situation of ME.

I can think of a few other people who should sit in a bucket. Wesseley and Crawley come to mind for starters. Maybe we should start sending buckets to people who need some quiet contemplative bucket time to rethink their attitudes. Far far away from us.
 

Valentijn

Senior Member
Messages
15,786
It was April 2013 that I got chronic fatigue after going through a long period of high life stress, with my first crash being brought on by some ants that I got bitten by in Australia, followed by really severe triple jet lag.
That's very nice, but most of the patients here don't have "chronic fatigue". We have the CCC- or ICC-defined disease Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, which centers on PEM, OI, neurological dysfunction, and immune dysfunction.

A nice .pdf primer describing our disease is at http://sacfs.asn.au/download/me_international_consensus_primer_for_medical_practitioners.pdf

Dealing with your emotions does not cure physical diseases. It does not remove chronic and widespread inflammation, nor infections, nor dysautonomia. I'm afraid you were likely misdiagnosed, or that you erroneously believe that chronic fatigue and ME/CFS are the same disorder.

There is a lot of bad misinformation regarding the disease, including from therapists and medical professionals, so it's pretty common for people to reach the wrong conclusions. Best of luck with your continued good health.
 

A.B.

Senior Member
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3,780
That most people who recover are young and have not been sick long is no reason to dismiss a therapy that may help some, and maybe even to the point of recovery. It saddens me to read some of the denigrating responses here to this person who shared her experience, perhaps for no other reason than a desire to help others heal as she had.

Psychotherapy has never cured any illness. Advocating psychotherapy for illness is irresponsible and potentially harmful. In the context of CFS, it is definitely harmful because CFS as condition is often dismissed as psychological problem and there is little funding available for biomedical research. Patients who erroneously believe they have CFS, or who erroneously believe that psychotherapy led to their recovery are doing the rest a disservice by spreading these views.

If placebo is an aspect of it and it works, I wish I were susceptible to it. But it is not all that it's about.

The placebo effect is merely an illusion of improvement. It's the result of poor research methods. For example, in a condition where a portion of patients will have recovered six months after their diagnosis, any imaginable treatment that isn't outright harmful will appear to be effective if the natural recovery is not accounted for. There is no measurable improvement in health in people taking a placebo. Promoting a placebo therapy is unethical.

Relevant material: Is the placebo powerless?
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM200105243442106

Is there any question that another aspect of this - the effect ACEs - adverse childhood experiences - has on the development of chronic, degenerative conditions as an adult, and at a younger age? Research supporting the effect of ACEs on development of a disadvantaged biological terrain - hyper-reactivity to stress, depressed immune function, etc. , appears solid to me.

How solid is the evidence that emotional problems lead to the development of chronic health conditions? Psych research is typically of poor quality, with correlations mistaken for causation.

To make my point of view clear beyond doubt: psychotherapy as solution for illness is quackery only supported by bad science, or pseudoscience. Patients that have been ill for a long time need treatments that work, and people who claim psychotherapy works are not helping.
 
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adreno

PR activist
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4,841
Even if early life stress leads to poorer immune function in adulthood, it doesn't follow that emotional therapy will cure it. Any changes in immune and endochrine function are likely due to epigenetics.
 
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I am sorry but I can't even fathom how negative emotions have anything to do with the development of ME or relapses.
Negative emotions release cytokines which in turn cause an uptick in inflammation.
"There is significant evidence showing that certain cytokines/chemokines are involved in not only the initiation but also the persistence of pathologic pain by directly activating nociceptive sensory neurons. Certain inflammatory cytokines are also involved in nerve-injury/inflammation-induced central sensitization, and are related to the development of contralateral hyperalgesia/allodynia."
Jun-Ming Zhang, MSc, MD and Jianxiong An, MSc, MD
 
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.

People with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis don't suffer from a disease caused by so called "negative emotions", nor can ME can be cured by "positive emotions" or psychotherapy..
 

A.B.

Senior Member
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3,780
Negative emotions release cytokines which in turn cause an uptick in inflammation.

Even if such an effect exists (1), where is the evidence that it leads to illness? (2) And is this relevant for CFS? (3)

Please substantiate points 1, 2 and 3. Baseless claims in the context of a poorly understood illness only lead to confusion which helps nobody except quack cure salesmen.
 

adreno

PR activist
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4,841
I am not convinced that there exists such a thing as negative and positive emotions. Those are our judgements, and based on context. Is jealousy a negative or positive emotion? It sure doesn't feel nice, but it might help to protect your relationship. Is sadness following loss negative? Is anger when you are victim of injustice?

I would claim that all emotions are good (i.e., they serve a purpose). There are evolutionary reasons for emotions, they are guides to behavior. For example, depression might be a kind of sickness behavior, telling you to conserve energy so your immune system can do its job.
 
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justy

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Hi @ChronicFatigueSurvivor so glad you are feeling better and that you have climbed out of the misery of illness and into wellness.

Your post took me back many years to when I was very first ill - approximately 20 years ago. I was ill with an undiagnosed illness for about three years that was severe and looked a hell of a lot like M.E. In the end it was suggested that I may have this, but never fully diagnosed by a GP etc.

It was also suggested at the time that my illness was in my head and that as I had two small children I was under a lot of stress - I also suffered from quite severe post natal depression. I thought the Drs where right and so embarked on 'my healing journey' I started with a chiropractor and Louise Hay's You Can Heal Your Life book. This was all a revelation to me as I had never encountered this kind of new age thinking before. The books convinced me further that my illness was caused by my mind, or emotions or soul or whatever.

I started doing affirmations - writing them all day in bed and saying them over and over in my head. This likely helped the severe anxiety that I was experiencing as a result of being so ill and not knowing what was wrong with me. I was quite young and had only had a bedbound spell for about 6 months and then gradually started to recover. I presumed the doctor was right - I was just mentally ill and emotionally distraught and my thinking was all wrong so If I could think myself into it, I could think myself out of it.

As I started to feel better I decide to have some therapy and then embarked on two years of counselling. I became a new age zealot and trained as a healer - I lived and breathed new age thinking, positive thinking and all the while hated myself for making myself so sick in the first place.

Eventually, apart from some residual extreme tiredness and a touch of anxiety I felt I was better and attributed it to my efforts. Around this time my daughter had a friend whose mother had M.E. She was very sick, completely bedbound at times and struggled to look after her daughter. I went to visit her in her home and she lay on the sofa looking pale and ill while I made tea.

Going home I congratulated myself on curing myself of my M.E and wondered why other people couldn't just get up and be more motivated to do the same. I then came to believe that ALL M.E was in the mind and emotions of the sufferer and they would get better with the right amount of effort.

My health continued to go well and I added in quite a lot of exercise - swimming and yoga and became physically the most fit I had ever felt (childhood and teenage years dogged by illness) I told myself it didn't matter that everyday after swimming the only thing I could do was go home and sleep for the rest of the day or that a yoga class would necessitate a taxi home as I was too weak to walk - what did it matter if my stamina wasn't like other peoples, I was cured and I would never be sick again!

I became a Reiki master, did a lot of rebirthing and decided to buy into the idea that ALL illness was somehow emotionally caused;that even people with cancer where getting something out of it, that it was just Karma that someone was in a wheelchair, I believed that my own breathing problems, asthma and recurrent lung infections where caused by my being adopted and fear of abandonment.

As I carried on with my life, having two more children, getting married, buying a home, my poor stamina and health continued. I was forever going to the Drs for one thing or another. I researched on the internet - maybe I had candida overgrowth, maybe I had hypothyroidism, maybe I was a bad person, in this or another life .I bought self help books and upped the amount of affirmations I did and courses I went on. I hated myself for making myself sick or neurotic or whatever it was that was wrong with me.

In 2008 and age 38 my children came down one after the other with Measles. By the autumn of that year I too had measles, despite having been vaccinated as a child. I then developed pneumonia, then pleurisy and was so sick I was coughing up blood and couldn't get off the sofa. I then had a LETZ procedure on my cervix to deal with a persistent HPV infection that was causing abnormal cells to grow. The technician had been tracking the changes and HPV infection for 6 years and couldn't understand why my body didn't just deal with it itself - most women's immune systems deal with the infection over time, but mine just wouldn't.

After the LETZ most women go back to work that day or the next day. I didn't get out of bed for two weeks, I was so sick and debilitated. I never went back to work or to my normal life. I have now been diagnosed with moderate/severe M.E for the past 6 years and since seeing a specialist Dr I now know that my immune system is a mess and that I have two, possibly three chronic bacterial infections that I have probably had for at least 20 years. I now depend on a carer and a wheelchair and have lost all independence that I had.

If I had known then what I know now I could have had proper testing and treatment for the problems I was having and may never have become as ill as I am now and suffered for so many years. I now see that I did in fact have M.E for the whole twenty years but had just gone into a spontaneous near remission, due to probably my age, length and severity of illness and the fact that I rested and slept a lot!

I am ashamed now of the beliefs I held over all those years. They did not serve me or my family well and only perpetuated my illness and my self loathing and caused me much distress as i sought again and again to cure myself of my illness.

I most likely have had Lyme disease for the past twenty or so years and this, not my disordered thinking, or my emotions or supressed rage has devastated my life.
 

Undisclosed

Senior Member
Messages
10,157
Negative emotions release cytokines which in turn cause an uptick in inflammation.
"There is significant evidence showing that certain cytokines/chemokines are involved in not only the initiation but also the persistence of pathologic pain by directly activating nociceptive sensory neurons. Certain inflammatory cytokines are also involved in nerve-injury/inflammation-induced central sensitization, and are related to the development of contralateral hyperalgesia/allodynia."
Jun-Ming Zhang, MSc, MD and Jianxiong An, MSc, MD

Even if such an effect exists (1), where is the evidence that it leads to illness? (2) And is this relevant for CFS? (3)

Please substantiate points 1, 2 and 3. Baseless claims in the context of a poorly understood illness only lead to confusion which helps nobody except quack cure salesmen.

Indeed.
 

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
I am ashamed now of the beliefs I held over all those years. They did not serve me or my family well and only perpetuated my illness and my self loathing and caused me much distress as i sought again and again to cure myself of my illness.

This is the dark side to the "positive thinking" approach. The belief that one can think and will themselves well is just not based on reality.

Thanks for sharing your experience openly.
 

adreno

PR activist
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4,841
This is the dark side to the "positive thinking" approach.
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