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Copper deficiency....?

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
whoah quite an informative site, thanks for sharing! Still nothing about interactions between the b vitamins though, darnn... The hunt is still on.
You have to look up the minerals interactions.
Just remembered of the B2 I love you topic, B2 activates the other Bs in the liver using Cu and Fe.
 

South

Senior Member
Messages
466
Location
Southeastern United States
You have to look up the minerals interactions.
Just remembered of the B2 I love you topic, B2 activates the other Bs in the liver using Cu and Fe.

It may be adviseable to look elsewhere to try to find support for the ideas in the "B2 I love you" thread. Reason being, the person in that thread who posted much of the info there sort of disappeared, and comments toward the end of the thread seem to imply that she changed her mind about several things.
 

South

Senior Member
Messages
466
Location
Southeastern United States
I've been trying to read about copper for quite awhile, although I haven't tried to do anything beyond read about it. Here's one of the sites I felt was decent at summarizing some things, including a problem called biounavailable copper. The site deals mostly with copper overload rather than deficiency, but if you scroll down to the part about biounavailable copper, it has some interesting things to say about methylation and adrenal health being involved in this.

And maybe biounavailable copper shows up as a deficiency when a blood test is done?

http://www.holistichelp.net/blog/copper-toxicity-and-how-to-reduce-elevated-levels/
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
It may be adviseable to look elsewhere to try to find support for the ideas in the "B2 I love you" thread. Reason being, the person in that thread who posted much of the info there sort of disappeared, and comments toward the end of the thread seem to imply that she changed her mind about several things.
I don't base my research on her interpretations. The biochemistry facts she posted haven't changed. Vit B2 mechanism of action still employs Fe and Cu. ;)
 

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
I've been trying to read about copper for quite awhile, although I haven't tried to do anything beyond read about it. Here's one of the sites I felt was decent at summarizing some things, including a problem called biounavailable copper. The site deals mostly with copper overload rather than deficiency, but if you scroll down to the part about biounavailable copper, it has some interesting things to say about methylation and adrenal health being involved in this.

And maybe biounavailable copper shows up as a deficiency when a blood test is done?

http://www.holistichelp.net/blog/copper-toxicity-and-how-to-reduce-elevated-levels/

Yeah good article, thanks. Not a lot on being under in copper levels hey. I'm in range, just so do I actually need to supplement! I have been supplements for years though, with small amounts of copper!
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,895
Sporty, do you have any numbers for your iron levels?
Do you have any symptoms of low aldosterone such as frequent urination?
And just wondering if you have signs of soft tissue calcification or decalcification of the teeth.
 
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Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
Sporty, do you have any numbers for your iron levels?
Do you have any symptoms of low aldosterone such as frequent urination?
And just wondering if you have signs of soft tissue calcification or decalcification of the teeth.

Hi

Well my iron levels were low in range when I initially tested but when tested after supplementing my levels were up and good.

I do urinate a lot when I take my methyaide. It's got creatine in it so I think that's the cause for very frequent urination.

I'm not sure what you mean about calcification so perhaps I don't have that :0)
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,895
I was wondering about the iron levels because bioavailable copper is needed for good iron levels. And I was wondering about the calcification because if you don't have enough bioavailable copper you might tend to have decalcification of teeth and bones and at the same time soft tissue calcification such as in the joints. Do you have any copper deficiency symptoms? It doesn't sound like you do. It can cause a wide array of problems, though.
 

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
I was wondering about the iron levels because bioavailable copper is needed for good iron levels. And I was wondering about the calcification because if you don't have enough bioavailable copper you might tend to have decalcification of teeth and bones and at the same time soft tissue calcification such as in the joints. Do you have any copper deficiency symptoms? It doesn't sound like you do. It can cause a wide array of problems, though.

Well I have the fatigue, probably high histamine, low moods, no libido, gut issues, clicking ears. Dunno, it's really hard to say what's causing that isn't it!! I'd love some positive energy!!!!! Lol
 

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
See if this looks applicable. The boron helps with copper regulation, and a lot of other things. I'm trying borax right now, but too soon to tell. http://www.dcnutrition.com/minerals/detail.cfm?RecordNumber=47

But I've been taking a mineral mix for years now. How could I possibly be deficient in any of them , I wonder! Do you know what I mean? Supplementing for years so how could I be deficient in anything? There must be something wrong further up the line..... Ie something preventing the stuff getting into my cells, for arguments sake.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,895
Yes, I know what you mean. I have been thinking along those lines, and am trying to figure it out. Further up the line to me means hormones, at least for now because that's the only other thing I can think of. I've had a fairly obvious arginine vasopressin lack since I was a child, no doctor ever figured it out, and I can see that that would have effects on the adrenals and also mineral balance. However I don't know what caused the vasopressin deficiency. I have gone to chiropractors who would check the pituitary-thyroid-adrenal axis, and then there's another axis, and I think my mineral imbalances are more likely caused by something wrong with one of the glands than simply a poor supply of minerals. I have 4 sisters and a brother and none of them had such severe and obvious mineral and even vitamin imbalances. So while I don't have any answers for you, I know what you mean.

One thing I'm looking at is something wrong with the anterior pituitary which isn't protected by the blood brain barrier and can easily become messed up. I'm not too far along in my searching yet, but I'm hoping the boron will clear it out. Just at the theoretical phase of it right now.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
Do you have any symptoms of low aldosterone such as frequent urination?
And just wondering if you have signs of soft tissue calcification or decalcification of the teeth.
I do and I do... Do you have any sources of reading to recommend?

izzy
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,895
Izzy, have you seen this site that talks about copper biounavailability? http://www.arltma.com/Articles/CopperToxDoc.htm That and a few other places is where I started to read about copper and the problems it can cause. The issue of aldosterone was brought up by Ann Louise Gittleman at the Copper Dysregulation facebook group. I'll get a link to what she says about it. I have low aldosterone, though, I think, and frequent urination, and right now I'm trying to figure out if I actually have low copper.
Biounavailable copper is a cause of soft tissue calcification because copper regulates calcium deposition, I'll look for the best link for that info. Then up the chain from the copper is boron, which somehow regulates copper. I haven't found how it regulates the copper, though. But you can see by a list of all the things borax is good for that somehow it can even reverse the soft tissue calcification.

I am in the middle of trying to figure out if the frequent urination problem that I have is a result of a lack of arginine vasopressin or low aldosterone, and then while I'm at it, I aim to try to figure out where copper comes in to play. But an interesting piece of information that I just found is that arginine vasopressin actually acts in conjunction with corticotropin releasing hormone to modulate the release of corticosteroids from the adrenal glands in response to stress. I don't know yet if aldosterone is one of the corticosteroids that might be affected by lack of vasopressin. Lack of vasopressin would be a cause of very frequent night time urination.

One more tie in is that the lack of vasopressin can cause high blood calcium levels, which might mean that it's being pulled out of the teeth and bones, unbound copper would make it be deposited in soft tissue.

Because of all the reading I've done this afternoon it might take me a little bit of time to figure out good links, but I'll be back.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,895
Here's something about aldosterone. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/aldosterone/

So the frequent urination could be caused by either low aldosterone or low arginine vasopressin. Frequent urination caused by low aldosterone would cause salt wasting and low salt levels. But I think frequent urination caused by vasopressin causes high salt levels with low potassium levels because the kidneys.
 
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Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
@Violeta , thank you so much!

So far I have suppressed frequent urination 3x in 12 months:

1) going gluten free. It lasted almost 2 months until I foolishly started taking garlic caps :rolleyes:
2) taking mB12. The honeymoon was shortlived :confused:
3) magnesium supplementation. It was a honeymoon also. There is always something missing. :aghhh:

Right now I am supplementing a multimineral containing

Se 80mcg
Zn 15mg
Cu 450mcg
Mn 1,5mg
Boron 2mg

I think I will add some extra copper to it.

I also take a low dose B complex. Not taking any B12 or B9 right now since I have been experiencing some brain fog from them. I also supplement silica 2-3x a week hoping it will chelate my high aluminum. Meanwhile, still urinating more than I wish to. After magnesium supplementation at least the day time urination seems to be normal now.

izzy
 

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
Yes, I know what you mean. I have been thinking along those lines, and am trying to figure it out. Further up the line to me means hormones, at least for now because that's the only other thing I can think of. I've had a fairly obvious arginine vasopressin lack since I was a child, no doctor ever figured it out, and I can see that that would have effects on the adrenals and also mineral balance. However I don't know what caused the vasopressin deficiency. I have gone to chiropractors who would check the pituitary-thyroid-adrenal axis, and then there's another axis, and I think my mineral imbalances are more likely caused by something wrong with one of the glands than simply a poor supply of minerals. I have 4 sisters and a brother and none of them had such severe and obvious mineral and even vitamin imbalances. So while I don't have any answers for you, I know what you mean.

One thing I'm looking at is something wrong with the anterior pituitary which isn't protected by the blood brain barrier and can easily become messed up. I'm not too far along in my searching yet, but I'm hoping the boron will clear it out. Just at the theoretical phase of it right now.

Yes it could be hormones. It could....but then why with all the supplementing I've been doing over the years have my adrenals and thyroid not recovered....? My total guess is some sort of toxin has messed up our systems, and continues to do so. Like it's thrown our system out of balance and it's not recovered properly since...