Thank you all so much for responding! I am really enjoying looking into this stuff with yall.
This has gotten long...titles added for clarity.
Histamine
@
place : Huh...I've thought about histamine before, but I haven't really found a great way to bring it down.
Here is an interesting article saying that dehydration causes our bodies to make more histamine--which would explain at least some of the "dry" concept in chinese medicine--but it would also imply that getting enough water could help. Who knows how much...
Here is a hypothesis, part of which is that people with ME are overtly sensitive to histamine. I don't have access to the whole thing, so I can't see why they think this. But it seems like histamine dysfunction might be part of the ME picture. And if chronic infection is part of the picture, then I can imagine that mast cells would release histamine more often.
Here is a detailed paper on histamine and sleep regulation. Some quotes I found of particular interest:
Histaminergic perikarya are located exclusively in the tuberomamillary nucleus and adjacent areas of the posterior hypothalamus.
[The posterior hypothalamus] is the only brain structure so far identified, in which lesioning or inactivation using the GABA agonist muscimol results in hypersomnia in several species and restores sleep in various insomniac models in the cat (reviewed in Sakai et al., 1990; Lin, 2000)
So GABA and magnesium should be helpful in terms of blunting histamine release from the posterior hypothalamus...
These quotes (from the same article) are about the H3 receptor, which is the histamine autoreceptor--the histamine receptor that regulates histamine, keeping it from going too high:
Histamine neurons display a pacemaker firing pattern that depends on a number of intrinsic properties: dendritic Ca2+-mediated prepotentials, decisive in this process, are suppressed by H3 receptor activation. The H3 receptors also cause inhibition of release at axonal varicosities by blocking Ca2+
channels that are essential for triggering the transmitter exocytosis.
So once again, excess calcium means stronger histamine reaction.
H3 receptor activation inhibits glutamate release from rat striatal synaptosomes...This action is severely compromised in an animal model of hepatic encephalopathy.
Assuming that H3 receptors aren't inhibiting histamine release as much as we would like, then glutamate is part of the problem too. Of course, it was probably part of the problem already. The bit about the liver is interesting to me, as I am under the impression that my liver is particularly dysfunctional, and Rich Van K has mentioned inefficient estrogen metabolism (occurring mainly in the liver, I believe) as a cause of oxidative stress, and thus a perpetuator of the ME cycle.
Here is an article on herbal fixes for histamine. Although quercetin is mentioned, I looked into it and it is an
mao-a inhibitor. Also, I believe it increases dopamine. For myself, I will try chondriotin sulfate. Exciting! Not mentioned was Reishi, which prevents mast cell degranulation. I have been taking it for five years or so, and it works wondefully. I take it an hour before bed.
So it's pretty cool to see the link from gaba/magnesium (deficiency) to histamine (excess) to acth (excess), to cortisol (excess). However, I have some doubts if this whole cycle is happening in ME.
Here is a link where Rich Van K talks about the difficulty of producing POMC (from which ACTH is snipped) without enough glutathione. And in the first of his three-part video, he says that he believes this is why people with ME tend to have flat cortisol tests. And yet cortisol dysfunction is the one cause of sleep disturbance I know about that includes the pattern where I get more energy and feel more awake in the evening.
Cortisol
@
ukxmrv : I didn't know that low morning cortisol rising to normal evening cortisol can interfere with sleep...very interesting. I have not had my cortisol tested recently...insurance will pay for multiple blood tests (but not saliva), but I don't think I can get one at 10:00 at night, which would be the interesting time. But I very much wonder if you are right. It would certainly fit more with Rich's theory.
Melatonin inhibits ACTH response. So 5-htp and melatonin might help. I take 5-htp to sleep, and it certainly is helpful. Tiny amounts of melatonin knock me out, and this is probably why.
@
perchance dreamer : Eating late, particularly eating protein, has actually contributed to insomnia in the past. I think maybe we have two different patterns of insomnia--I have difficulty getting to sleep, but once I do I generally sleep to 8 or 9 am. But it is helpful to hear that for the "wake up at 4 am" insomnia, almonds and a fig are helpful.
Ammonia
@heapsreal : I did not know that about ammonia and insomnia, very interesting! I have been dealing with ammonia issues for a while now. I was buying a fortune in BH4 supplements, but recently I started taking liposomal fumaric acid, which for some reason works in a way that carnitine-fumarate never did. I am definitely interested in ornithine. That's exciting, thanks!
Magnesium
Just some background, because I have and will mention magnesium and calcium, but I want to fill in the context for those who are not familiar. Also, laying it out like this makes me try to fill in the gaps in my understanding:
Gaba and glutamate are in a dynamic balance. They can, in fact, be converted into each other. When there is more of one, there is less of another. Magnesium stimulates gaba receptors and Calcium stimulates Glutamate receptors. Normally, calcium is mostly present outside of cells, while magnesium is mostly present inside of cells. Enzymes on the cell membranes that use ATP maintain these gradients. People with ME, who do not produce enough ATP, have weaker potentials--meaning that our cells have less magnesium in them, and more calcium.
I think the body can regulate plasma electrolyte concentrations more easily than intracellular concentrations, because excess can be excreted by the kidneys. Someone please fill in if I am missing something. But I believe this is why I can take huge amounts of magnesium and no calcium in order to feel slightly more balanced.
I thought this was all worth mentioning, because I like to know that what I am taking is bringing the body back to its natural balance.
What I Take To Sleep
...in case anyone needs more ideas
100 mg 5-htp
Lithium Orotate 30 mg: Yasko has observed that people taking high amounts of b12 can become lithium deficient. It happens to a greater extent in some people than in others, and she thought a particular genetic mutation might be involved, but she didn't know why or how. I think it was a COMT or possibly MAO-A mutation, but I'm not sure. Anyhow, I have it. I take 14 mg of daily b12.
Peace Pearls: You have to get them from an acupuncturist, they won't sell to the public. But they are excellent both for putting me to sleep, and for giving me good quality sleep.
Reishi Extract 1.5 g (1 hour before bed): As mentioned above, prevents mast cell degranulation
200 mg phosphatidylserine
Vitamin K: I was low in it. It convinces glutamate and calcium to head towards the bones and away from the nervous system.
Magnesium (up to bowel tolerance): I make liposomal magnesium glycinate, as that allows me to get more in my body without diarrhea. I take it throughout the day, including before bed. As with all liposomal things, they need to be taken 15-25 min away from other stuff, even water.
CholineCDP (Citicoline) 250-500 mg: It increases glutamate uptake and glutathione synthesis, preventing glutamate excitotoxicity. Makes me sleepy, and lets me sleep more deeply.
GABA
Raw Beef (Lunch or dinner, about 1/7 pound): I have no idea why this helps. To muse on this, check out
this thread I started on it. If you feel concerned about the dangers, please read the discussion on the topic on the same thread first.
