Asperger and CFS

[helen1]

How many of us with CFS/ME also have been diagnosed with or have traits of Asperger? Which genes or other processes may be implicated in both? Does the urge to persist at tasks beyond what's healthy make it more likely we will get ill?
As someone who recently realized I have some significant traits of Asperger, I'd be curious as to other's thoughts on exploring the relationship between ASD and CFS/ME.

 

[Beyond]

I´ve been diagnosed twice with Asperger, although I always say I am not a severe case. Check this out: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022395611002421

So that´s one process that is implicated in both: lower antioxidant activity and/or oxidative stress.

 

[taniaaust1]

I think one has to be careful one isnt wrong diagnosed with having Aspergers due to having ME as it can cause symptoms which are also seen in Aspergers eg having to isolate oneself due to being sick and loosing friends due to being sick could be mistaken for the Aspergers social issues. In Aspergers there is often clumbiness, allergies, food intollerances and IBS are more common, sound intollerance, scent intollerences and also issues with drug reactions etc all can occur with Aspergers, Aspergers people are often more tired then normal people too and may need to go and nap right after school (of cause that tiredness isnt anything like ME exhaustion but could be mistaken by many).

With getting a diagnoses of Aspergers with us, it is extremely important that the experts can see it from our childhood history before getting ME/CFS too (childhood history is supposed to be considered anyway when diagnosing this disorder).

I personally think there is certainlhy a link between Aspergers and ME.. there is far too many of us here who have children with Aspergers or have it in our families. My daughter, me and my father all have Aspergers, thou Im the only one who has been offically diagnosed by Autism experts (they have never sought diagnoses thou they have worst Aspergers then me and had had issues due to it).

Does the urge to persist at tasks beyond what's healthy make it more likely we will get ill?

That is a very interesting thought.. if how the Aspergers affects behaviour (making it very hard to stop whatever one wants to do), whether that makes us more susceptable due to that behaviour in setting ourselves up to being more at risk of ME or of getting extreme ME due to how hard we will push if we really want to do something. Aspergers people can get so into doing something that they become oblivious to everything else.. may miss meals and sleep due to this or not take care of other health needs due to obsessions with things they are interested in.

I'll use what I did yesterday as an example, I was completely knacked, yawning, head hurt, feeling nauseus, my boyfriend had been over for the day helping me.. taken me to shops etc and I'd been upright too long (wheelchair at shops one cant put legs up like I need). Thou I was quite sick with my POTS and ME by the time we got home, I was obsessed some with getting the plants I'd just brought planted (just couldnt wait till I was feeling better or for Monday to come when he would next be here and able to help me).

So yeah I went in the garden and thou I could hardly stand at all and was all wobbly on my feet and needed to be in bed. Instead, Im outside on the ground with a little spade doing landscaping (I had to wait till he left before I could do this as there is no way he would of allowed me in my state to be doing that) **sighs** lucky Im not very sick today. Im really pushing it at times. I really struggle with forcing myself in bed when I really want to do something. I know if I had been in bed, I would of just been laying there obsessing about those plants I wanted in (so it wouldnt have been good for me anyway).

 

[Helen]

How many of us with CFS/ME also have been diagnosed with or have traits of Asperger? Which genes or other processes may be implicated in both? Does the urge to persist at tasks beyond what's healthy make it more likely we will get ill?
As someone who recently realized I have some significant traits of Asperger, I'd be curious as to other's thoughts on exploring the relationship between ASD and CFS/ME.

According to Dr. Amy Yasko, who was the first to choose SNP´s in the methylation cycle to a Methylation Panel, children with autism spectrum disorders and people with ME/CFS have the same polymorphisms in the methylation cycle. Rich continued her´s and others work (as Dr. Jill James´) when he outlined the simplified methylation protocol.

In her book "Pathways to Recovery", that has been free to download from her site, she discusses this too http://www.dramyyasko.com/about-us/. It has not been studied scientifically so far. Prof. Richard Deth has written about, and studied, autistic children and it is easy to see the similarities with the methylation and toxin issues http://www.whale.to/a/deth.pdf .

 

[caledonia]

There are about 30 methylation related diseases - ME/CFS, autism/Asperger's are just two of them. Watch the first video in the Methylation Made Easy video series in my signature links to see a list. You'll likely have relatives with many of these diseases.

 

[SickOfSickness]

The genetic defects have been addressed. Cancers seem related to M.E. as well.

From discussion in old threads, it appears that some of people show no Asperger's/Autism symptoms but after developing M.E., they have some. Which Tania pointed out is not the same as having ASD, just some symptoms are the same.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

Often pondered if I'm somewhat on the Autism spectrum, since it seems more and more to be a rather huge spectrum in fact: what is "illness" and what is part of the variation of Homo Sapiens, hm?
Just cannot stand lies/wrong/leaving things broken, absolutely does my head in.
Highly intelligent, is such caused by parts of the mind specializing more in puzzle solving/meory etc, rather than people? I used ot be very empathic before I got M.E., but social stuff, eh...fun, games, chat sure fun but...much of stuff folk got up to...????
and is "introversion" extremely mild autism or merely chosing to NOT stop caring about others?
love folk in small doses, always took too much effort dealing with more than a few folks cause I cared .

most folk in my area have been poisoned by heavy metals due to the enormous factories, 1st or 2nd largest conglomeration of steel/metal workings in Europe, and bet my dad was mildly radioactive from the sodding radium painting part in the factory he worked in (the walls literally glowed when they knocked that part down, not Cerenkov radiation, that is only from major bukoo bad ass stuff like spent fuel rods, but in factory's case, just sheer amount of radium that had been used and thus absorbed into walls etc)
got poisoned by copper sulphate dad used as weedkiller (or rather, moss killer to be exact), burned my insides out and left me with serious stomach issues that slowly lessened over years stopped around teenage years.

or then again history of childhood abuse can create anxiety/issues hence I really don't like being close up with a bunch of folk I don't trust.

could part of autism really lie on what we might call the "good" side of our psyches coming from hard biology?
the need for order, having things right, fairness and such.
but with damage of some form, there is gross feedback, over stimulus, unbearable suffering thus shutting out the world....
as I've said before, I've had extended period of low blood sugar, and meningitis, and way they make stimulus unbearably distressing etc, does to my experiences have some parallels with M.E., especially low blood sugar.

forgive my pondering

 

[helen1]

Thank you all for your thoughts on this. Interesting study, @Beyond, on oxidation levels which probably fits with the genetic link. @caledonia and @Helen, that helps clarify things: methylation defects are central to both; I knew I was missing something obvious!

And that would fit with @SilverbladeTE 's observation about industrial poisoning, as that would seriously affect someone with methylation issues.

@taniaaust1, that's a perfect example of the 'dog with a bone' aspie trait. I can just see you out in your garden, wobbly legs and all, determined to get those plants in.

I think the social challenges leading to isolation that Aspies often experience probably contributes to illness, too.

 

[wastwater]

I Wonder if mitochondria is the common link

 

[stridor]

I agree with @SilverbladeTE and @SickOfSickness
I was a live wire when I was young (and tripping over dinosaurs). The "all-low monoamine depression" that is part of decreased BH4, in my opinion leads to this.
Whether induced by metal, mold or viruses, we risk going through these Asperger-like symptoms. I have had this as well and am just now coming out after 3 years of mercury chelation and pushing mB12 into the 8 mg/day range.
This, IMHO, is not a permanent condition. The brain only has so many ways of saying "ouch" and so many conditions can share various symptoms.

 

[Beyond]

I wonder how much of my "Asperger´s" derives from permanent damage or alteration to the structure of, say, the brain and how much from the many physical dysfunctions that I face at this moment. I suspect I never was healthy to begin with, I think I already had some inflammatory or hormonal or immune problems since a kid. How much of this is reversable both scientifically interests me and scares me as a person. Only curing completely will say for sure. I suspect many of my "psychological" problems will fade once my body is healed.

 

[helen1]

@stridor, you write that you're just now coming out of your Asperger like symptoms, did I understand that correctly? If so, could you expand, it sounds interesting and encouraging!
and what chelation did you do?
@Beyond, I agree, I would expect many to have some personality changes when they get well.