Conspiracy theory stuff, but interesting.

[heapsreal]

I dont know if i totally believe it but i guess its possible, here's a copy and paste. Interesting none the less.

http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/activism/skullvalley.html
In The Extremely Unfortunate Skull Valley Incident, the reader is taken into the shadowy underworld of American military politics to examine the role of various agencies in the development and testing of biological and chemical weapons. Facts are taken from U.S. government documents, studied in the context of historical events and then used to form a hypothesis that the infectious agents responsible for the current epidemics of AIDS and CFS were created in a military lab.

The name of this book is taken from the text of a government meeting held in 1969, during which reference is made to "the extremely unfortunate Skull Valley incident." In Skull Valley, an American military test of a deadly nerve gas went terribly wrong and resulted in the death of several thousand sheep downwind from the test site. Thus, the title of this book serves to remind the reader that errors and unforseen events do occur and when they occur with biological weapons, the results are devastating.

June 9, 1969Department of Defense records indicate that on this date a meeting was held between Dr. Donald MacArthur, Director of Research in the Biological Warfare Branch of the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) and a small group of U.S. Congressmen. An official record of that meeting, obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, provides shocking revelations, even 30 years later.

Dr. MacArthur reported to the Congressmen that within 5 to 10 years it would be possible to create a synthetic biological agent that would disable the human immune system. Two versions would be developed, one that would leave its victims dead, and another that would chronically disable its victims. He requested, and was given, 10 million dollars to perform the research. He warned the congressmen that this was highly controversial research because an error in testing the new agent, or some unforeseen development, may release a pathogen that could kill or disable millions of innocent victims.

1976-1984
Isolated cases of two strange new diseases began appearing in the U.S. and in Africa. Some of the victims died; others remained seriously ill for years.

By 1984, there were two epidemics underway. AIDS was rapidly spreading through many third world countries and the homosexual population of North America. Clusters of a mysterious disease later named chronic fatigue syndrome were reported throughout North America.

We now know that both illnesses are characterized by marked loss of immune system integrity. One of the diseases kills its victims, while the other disables. It is interesting to note that Dr. MacArthur's timeline of 5-10 years puts us well within the years that AIDS and CFS first made their debuts. The authors ask if this is simply a coincidence, or if the DoD were indeed successful in their endeavours.

Much of what happened between the years 1969 and 1984 has never been uncovered. For those years, the authors delve into history to paint a picture of what might have occurred. Yet, the fact remains that in 1969 the DoD promised two new diseases in 5-10 years, and 5-10 years later two new diseases, matching the criteria, emerged.

One is left to ponder the rationale for introducing any new diseases into the world, let alone two as devastating as AIDS and CFS. The authors take us back through history to develop a view of the political climate that made this effort possible.

AIDS
According to the authors, in the early 1900's, several prominent American families began to worry that world population growth would threaten their established position and power, as well as the global position of the United States. Certain third world countries supplied raw products to the U.S. at extremely low prices. It was thought that if the population of these countries continued to grow at an exponential rate, they would then require the raw products for their own population. American production and quality of living was greatly threatened.

This ideology was transformed into action in 1959 when a report to President Eisenhower recommended that, for the above mentioned reasons of national security, a method must be found to accelerate the death rate in those countries.

CFS
During World War II, interest in chemical and biological weapons began to grow. The Nazi's had well-developed chemical weapons that they used to exterminate millions of Jews. The Japanese had well-developed biological weapons which they tested in New Guinea and on prisoners of war in Manchuria. At war's end, some Nazi and Japanese scientists were offered immunity from prosecution as war criminals if they would share their secrets with the United States Department of Defense.

At the DoD meeting on June 9, 1969, interest was expressed in biological and chemical weapons that disable the enemy, rather than kill them. The rationale was that it is a tremendous burden for the enemy to have to care for its disabled population. Dr. MacArthur reported that his department had some of the top scientists in the country working "for years" to develop "more effective incapacitating agents", but that it was very difficult work. Key in this statement are the words for years and more effective. They imply that the DoD is already studying certain incapacitating agents, and are now focusing on making them more disabling. What were these agents, and where were they being tested?

Also revealed was the fact that the U.S. DoD had over 2,000 people working in its laboratories and an annual budget of $90 million dollars for chemical and biological weapons research. What were they doing?

The authors do not examine in detail the pathogen responsible for AIDS, perhaps subscribing to the belief that the HIV virus is the culprit. It does, indeed, fit Dr. MacArthur's criteria of being previously unknown and disabling to the human immune system.

They do, however, provide evidence to suggest that laboratory manipulation of the brucellosis bacteria has resulted in a pathogen that causes the disease later named Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

Brucellosis is a pathogen that has been around for centuries, generally causing disease in farm animals, and only occasionally making the leap to humans. In most cases, the victim recovers after a few weeks or months, but in some instances a chronic disease would develop. The symptoms attributed to brucellosis are familiar: low grade fever, malaise, fatigue, headache, weakness, sweats, chills, backache, myalgias, anorexia, nausea, cough and major organ damage. The onset of brucellosis can be acute or gradual. The disease typically presents a multitude of complaints and very few physical findings. It is notoriously difficult to diagnose based upon laboratory findings.

The fact that brucellosis has been around for centuries ties in with the belief that CFS is not a new disease. Brucellosis infection occurred occasionally and would have presented as a disease very similar to CFS, as seems to be the case with Florence Nightingale. However, no one will dispute the fact that beginning in the early 1980's, unprecedented numbers of individuals began acquiring this disease. Something happened to make this disease much more prevalent and much more disabling. The Extremely Unfortunate Skull Valley Incident argues compellingly that this change occurred in the laboratory.

If indeed AIDS and CFS are the products of the DoD efforts to create a new microorganism for which there would be no natural immunity, then how did they make the leap from the laboratory to the world's population. The problem with biological weapons is that they have to be tested. It is a very daunting challenge indeed to recruit willing volunteers for biological weapons testing. How, then, would their effectiveness be measured?

AIDS
As no official record has been found directly linking AIDS to the DoD, the authors are left to study history for the connection. If Dr. MacArthur's 5-10 year projection was correct, sometime in the mid 1970's the new agents would be ready for testing. It is just at this time that the World Health Organization, with funding from the United States, initiated a program of 'smallpox eradication' in many of the countries targeted earlier by the U.S. as needing population control. Villagers flocked to the vaccination centers, eager for this weapon against the deadly disease. 5 years later, a high percentage of these villagers had AIDS. Today many of these countries are associated with devastating incidences of AIDS (including much of Africa), and their populations are indeed being reduced.

In 1979, under the supervision of Dr. Don Francis of the Centers for Disease Control (who also oversaw the smallpox eradication program), gay men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco received vaccinations against 'Hepatitis B'. Again, a high percentage of the recipients came down with AIDS. The authors make special note of this coincidence.

CFS
The authors develop the theory that there have been many tests, over the years and on unsuspecting victims, to perfect the disabling pathogen that causes CFS. Those who have studied the history of CFS will immediately recognize such places as Akureyri, Iceland; Key West, Florida; Truckee, Nevada; and Lyndonville, New York. The authors point out that each early outbreak occurred in a relatively isolated or contained location and within a specific population; i.e. elementary school children in Lyndonville and high school teachers in Truckee. Schools and hospitals seem to have been favorite test sites. The authors assume that the isolated locales were specifically chosen as to minimize publicity and to help contain the pathogen should an accident or unforeseen event occur. The specific populations targeted would simply make it easier to monitor the outcome of the test.

Typically, the Centers for Disease Control and the National Institutes of Health helped the military to monitor such tests. These agencies would need to, at the very least, be informed of the testing, because it would fall to them to investigate such outbreaks. The last thing the DoD needed was the CDC or NIH investigator innocently publicizing information that could link the outbreak with the biological weapons program.

The Gulf War Syndrome Connection
An official United States Government document cited by the authors details several shipments of biological weapons to Iraq between the years 1985 and 1989. These weapons were sent to Iraq to assist in the war against Iran. Included on the list of agents shipped to Iraq are Brucella abortus Biotypes 3 and 9; and Brucella melitensis Biotypes 1 and 3, the pathogens the authors claim cause CFS. The authors believe that these agents, along with a 'cocktail of others' were subsequently used against Allied forces in the Gulf War, causing Gulf War Syndrome (GWS), a condition nearly identical to CFS.

The U.S. Government's own documents list the symptoms of Brucella melitensis as: chronic fatigue, loss of appetite, profuse sweating when at rest, pain in joints and muscles, nausea, and damage to major organs. How did they find out what the symptoms of infection with this biological agent are?

It's all in your head
It's easy to see why the official government response to CFS and GWS has been to readily promote the notion that sufferers are mentally ill. Were the physical basis for these illnesses documented and the connection made to the American, Canadian and British militaries, and therefore governments, the repercussions for such agencies would be astronomical. It is interesting to note that the initial government response to AIDS was to claim mental illness. That story was rapidly discarded, however, when AIDS victims began dying en masse.

The Extremely Unfortunate Skull Valley Incident is, at the very least, a thought provoking work. Much of what the authors detail is difficult to imagine. Throughout the book, the authors contempt for those involved, and indeed the entire process, is clearly discernable. Yet, one wonders, who wouldn't be angry at the individuals responsible for such devastating events?

Upon completion of the book, I couldn't help but wonder about the authors' account of the testing of the brucellosis pathogen. Why the outbreaks in Iceland, the U.S., Canada and Great Britain? If Africans were deemed expendable enough to warrant testing of the AIDS virus, then why not test the brucellosis pathogen there as well? Essentially, why disable your own population? Or, did something get out of hand, as it did in Skull Valley? Perhaps the DoD ended up with a pathogen that was not as easily containable as they thought it would be.

It would be easy to simply disregard this work, believing that it's nonsensical speculation and far too outrageous to have any foundation in the truth. However, just the simple facts, detailed in the U.S. government's own documents, speak volumes. In 1969, the Pentagon promised a new infectious agent that the human immune system would be unable to defend against. One version would be deadly, the other chronic and disabling. By 1979 we witnessed the emergence of two new diseases which disable the immune system. One was deadly, the other chronic and disabling. In the 1980's, the U.S. sold biological weapons components to Iraq, including one which causes an illness identical to Gulf War Syndrome. Following a war against Iraq, soldiers developed this disease.

These are very strange coincidences.

 

[xchocoholic]

I'd be less likely to believe this if I hadn't seen for myself
how irresponsible our governments have been in dealing
with cfs/me.

 

[meandthecat]

In the UK they reward perpetrators of such skullduggery with Knighthoods.

 

[Beyond]

I have researched a bit and also from intuition I knew AIDS was man made. CFS, man made too of course as it didn´t exist in the past (nor did autism, at least in the modern percentage). But CFS is not always related with a super bug, sometimes with toxins (remember Gulf War Syndrome) and other things.

As Merleier I say that CFS is just a place where they throw people with a specific cluster of symptoms which not have the same cause in all patients. The last swine flu was man made and the vaccines were very dangerous. Kudos for the Internet because it made people very wary of "getting the shot" and their plans failed. My country bought 17 million of vaccines lol so is easy to see they wanted to inoculate a lot of people.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

Anything is possible with those maniacs, alas. Also possible cross over with natural illness or ones triggered by accidents with vaccine manufacture.
For years folk claimed Frank Olson, a US bio weapon specialist, who had an "unusual" death, was murdered by the CIA for daring to want to "Whistleblow" the horrors of what was going on, this was dismissed as "conspiracy theory"
however, after exhumation and new autopsy, his death was decided to be murder, not suicide and an actual criminal case re-opened on his death
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson

Frank Olson (July 17, 1910 – November 28, 1953) was a biological warfare specialist working for the U.S. government at Fort Detrick in Maryland. He was drugged with LSD by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and nine days later plunged to his death from the window of a New York hotel room, in what some term a suicide and others allege was an assassination by the CIA.[1]
Contents

[hide]

• 1 Biography
• 2 Legacy
• 3 References in popular culture
• 4 See also
• 5 References
• 6 Further reading
• 7 External links

Biography[edit]

Frank Olson was a senior U.S. microbiologist at Fort Detrick in Frederick, Maryland.[2] He was recruited from the University of Wisconsin, where his departmental advisor was Ira Baldwin, the civilian scientist who, along with industrial partners like George W. Merck and the U.S. military, established the U.S. bioweapons program in 1943, a time when interest in applying modern technology to warfare was at an all-time high.
His specific research work at Fort Detrick's Special Operations Division has never been revealed, but he was clearly involved in biological weapons research. He had been assigned as a contact with the CIA's Technical Services Staff, run by Dr. Sidney Gottlieb and his deputy Robert Lashbruck regarding experiments with bioweapons, toxins, and mind control drugs. This was the MKNAOMI - MKULTRA program, previously known as Project Artichoke and earlier, Project Bluebird. The CIA justified the program, in part, as a countermeasure to the claimed Soviet effort to create a "Manchurian Candidate."
Ed Regis reports that the meeting at which Olson was dosed with LSD took place at Deep Creek Lake:

Deep Creek Lake was three hours by car from Camp Detrick. On Wednesday morning, November 18, 1953, about a week before Thanksgiving, a group from the SO Division, including Vincent Ruwet, chief of the division, John Schwab, Frank Olson, Ben Wilson, Gerald Yonetz, and John Malinowski, drove out to the retreat...The Detrick group was met at the lodge by Sid Gottlieb, his deputy Robert Lashbrook, and a couple of others from the CIA....On the second day of the retreat, after dinner, Gottlieb spiked a bottle of Cointreau with a small quantity of a substance that he and his TSS colleagues privately referred to as "serunin" but which was in fact lysergic acid diethylamide, or LSD.[3]​

According to the government's version of events, Olson subsequently suffered severe paranoia and a nervous breakdown. The CIA sent him to New York to see one of their psychiatrists, who recommended that Olson be placed into a mental institution for recovery. This all took place after Olson asked to quit the biowarfare program the week after the retreat:

Ruwet was surprised to see Olson at 7:30 in the morning, but asked him in. Olson told Ruwet that he was dissatisfied with his own performance at the retreat, that he was experiencing considerable self-doubts, and that in fact he had decided he would like to be out of the germ warfare business. He wanted to leave Camp Detrick and devote his life to something else.[4]​

The LSD experience may have led Olson to this conclusion, but it was one he had been thinking of for some time.[citation needed] The CIA asked him to go to New York to meet with their private psychiatrist, Harold Abramson, who was centrally involved in the "research".[3]
The CIA claimed that on his last night in Manhattan, Olson purposely threw himself out of the window of his tenth-floor hotel room at the Hotel Pennsylvania, which he had been sharing with CIA agent Robert Lashbrook, dying shortly after impact.[2]
The biological warfare programs and the chemical interrogation programs then remained almost completely hidden from the public, until Nixon's closure of the biowarfare program in 1969 and the Church Committee hearings of 1975.[citation needed]
Legacy[edit]

His family had no knowledge of the details of the tragedy until the Rockefeller Commission started uncovering some of the CIA's MKULTRA activities. In 1975, the government admitted that Olson had been dosed with LSD without his knowledge. The government offered his family an out-of-court settlement of $750,000, which they accepted.[5]
In 1994, Eric Olson had his father's body exhumed to be buried with his wife. The family decided to have a second autopsy performed. The 1953 medical report done immediately after Dr. Olson's death indicated that there were cuts and abrasions on the body. Theories sparked about Olson having been assassinated by the CIA. When the second autopsy was performed by James Starrs, Professor of Law and Forensic science at the National Law Center at George Washington University, his team searched the body for any cuts and abrasions and found none. Starrs found a large hematoma on the left side of Olson's head and a large injury on his chest. The team concluded that the blunt force trauma to the head and injury to the chest had not occurred during the fall but most likely in the room before the fall. The evidence was called "rankly and starkly suggestive of homicide." Based on his findings, in 1996 the Manhattan District Attorney opened a homicide investigation into Olson's death, but was unable to find enough evidence to bring charges.[6][unreliable source?]
On November 28, 2012, his sons Eric and Nils Olson filed suit in the US district court in Washington, D.C., seeking unspecified compensatory damages. They also want to see documents related to their father's death and other matters that they say the CIA has withheld from them.[7][8] The case was dismissed in July 2013, due in part to the 1976 settlement between the family and government.[9]
References in popular culture[edit]

Danger with these things is the ability for plauisble deniability AND catastrophic unforseen consequences
sane military wanted nothing to do with these foul things, biology is vastly too complex to control in the real world
and military needs precise weapons that only do precise things, not mutate and kill your own etc
another issue is that WMD are only good for murdering civilians, again sane military folk wanted no part of that
And after the creation of a "protective coating" developed for bioweapons, their lethality went ballistic, making nukes obsolete grossly over expensive dinosaurs.
The nuclear arms race, folks, is, very seriously, a huge political "pecker contest" to look hard, big and win votes! and make contractors fortunes. Militarily, they are dman useless except against naval invasion fleets
use them on enemy base, you need ground bursts which results in insane levels of fallout

 

[chronix]

Yet, the fact remains that in 1969 the DoD promised two new diseases in 5-10 years, and 5-10 years later two new diseases, matching the criteria, emerged

CFS, man made too of course as it didn´t exist in the past

CFS may have been with us since the 19th century in the form of neurasthenia, the description of which is similar to CFS in many respects. Psychiatrists hijacked it in the beginning of the 1900's (sound familiar?). Thereafter the definition was broadened so much that almost any nervous issue could be diagnosed as a case of neurasthenia. It fell into disuse in later years, but it's interesting to note that soldiers in WW1 still used the term with reference to what is known as shell-shock. Search for letters from WW1 and you'll see.

The first recorded outbreak of ME occurred before WW2. Many followed around the world, usually in hospital settings and sometimes also in connection with polio outbreaks. It had many names during this period but was finally branded as CFS when the disease was hijacked yet again by psychiatrists in the 1980's.

Conspiracy theories are the favourite pastime of some, in particular those who need answers for something that is as yet unexplained. I'm not going to comment on AIDS but CFS wouldn't be a very useful weapon. It can take a while to manifest (6 months), it isn't effective (disability varies), and it affects women mostly. I don't think there's any military conspiracy about CFS; the only recurring conspiring theme throughout history is that of psychs actively undermining this disease to further their own interests and careers and there's probably a good dose of ignorance also involved.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that DoD looked into this illness at some stage and maybe tried to isolate a pathogen or something, who knows? However this would be difficult because it can be caused by many different pathogens, or chemicals, stress, trauma etc.

 

[overtrain]

I would not put ANYTHING past the U.S. Gov. I do not trust any gov. study, agency, representative, etc. This country has an long, obscene human nonconsent experimentation track record. My uncle played an integral role in the orphan experiments decades back, as well as on the Manhattan Project as a physicist. Very dark stuff. Takes a certain breed to be awake to these realities. Thank you for the post.

 

[Beyond]

overtrain So... much... supplements...

Chronix interesting point re neurasthenia. I wasn´t saying that CFS is man made in the sense of an isolated strand cultivated in laboratories as a biological weapon (although I wouldn´t be surprised this exists and affects people), I just meant that these modern disorders are a result of the corrupt and decadent use of ourselves and the enviroment. For example, many mercury toxic people have a lot of CFS symptoms, but these eventually fade if they detox properly.

I prefer conspiracy facts over theories. That there is fluoride in tap water purposely and fluoride is a neurotoxin and a carcinogen is a conspiracy fact. It also makes people more docile as Hitler knew so well, because he used it in his concentration camps.

After acknowledging the conspiracy facts, which are actually very shocking precisely because they are true, anything goes and is not strange to read that the military complex toyed with Lyme to make a worse disease. But that isn´t a fact yet as far as I know. Sounds very plausible, given the high number of people that get diagnosed with Lyme that have CFS.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

Chronix
unfortunately it is a plausible scenario, note I'm not saying it IS the case, but that it is totally within possibility regarding science and how damn cuckoo things are.

1) NATO did have a strategy of "crippling rather than killing", hard fact.
part of this is in the damn stupid hard beaten into skulls crap that "dum dum bullets are inhumane!"
if that's true, why do cops and hunters use them? any hunter knows a dumdum gives a much surer kill and thus cleaner death. Cops use them for similar reason: they have GOT to take a threat down ASAP and dumdums do not penetrate brick walls, lot of people have been killed by military in "police actions" when their solid bullets went right through houses
military bullets are armour piercing and tend to cause horrific injuries (shattering bone or bouncing around inside), but modern weapon/sight systems allow precision so head/chest shots over come that to fair extent.
Russians went for "kill", developing dumdum bullets and lethal pathogens (they had a literal TON weight of smallpox, bleeeeerg!)

2) As heaps noted, there were existing pathogens and ME/CFS cases...and "researchers" gathering samples of such to weaponize across the world by ALL sides.
doesn't mean there wasn't ME/CFS back then.

3) As noted, the sane military wanted rid of such damn things, one reason being "Plausible deniability weapons" are for LUNATICS like some of the "spooks"
It seems paradoxical, but the more devious you get, more your risk escalation. The best army is the one that never has to leave its barracks
if the enemy has good reason to believe you've done "dirty crap", you escalate things, where as making him unsure of military ability within limits is quite legitimate and useful to keep him on his toes.
Alas, too many assholes in power never got that Sun Tzu, Machiavelli and Von Clausewitz were actually *warning* not just giving instruction!

4) Generally, you will hear more uncomfortable truth form your enemy than your own leaders
hence, in the West, big deal was made about the Soviet's bioweapon system, but today there is deafening silence on America's vast (offensive* military bioweapon program
Even it's allies have quietly accused the US of having an offensive program, the sheer number of labs etc is vastly beyond the need of defence and is in itself, a bigger risk to the US than an enemy!
Hence GAO report warning planned bio"defence" lab in heart of rural USA had 60% risk of serious disaster from escaped pathogen, and that's just one of over 300 such labs.
Russians had at least two serious accidents with anthrax and smallpox resulting in many deaths.
if a pathogen is more subtle, oh hell then you have more problem identifying if it's accident, enemy or nature, again why such thing should be banned on PAIN OF DEATH, yeesh and I don't like saying that, but bioweapons are just too dangerous to ever allow. Like making a nuke that can replicate and detonate itself and is stealthed, it really is that bad.
The Japanese experiments and us of bioweapons in WW2 were heinous, they spread plague and other such over CHina, and the experiments they did on living Allied POWs should have got them shot int he back of thee head on capture, PDQ. To have released those vermin was monstrous and much of their science was garbage, they were sadists. (German's V2 rocket actually killed more concentration camp slaves making them than the damn weapons did by firing them by the way, but there's good reason to believe the Japanese use of disease may have killed hundreds of thousands if not several million)

there have already been many accidents in American biolabs, but the US media are in the clutches of just 6 corporates, so there is no effective difference between Soviet Union and USA today in regards of propaganda/cover up crap except USA is even better at it (those who fight monsters had best beware in case they themselves become monsters)
there is good reason to believe the USA is developing modified anthrax as weapon to get rid of the problem of "Insurrections". bad idea.

5) Women are "useless" to scumbags, you think these scuzzballs would think women are much use and would care if it did sicken them? and you can see how during WW2, women became major part of workforce...so if you made them sick? (Sorry, I'm just being brutally realistic in regards tot he likely thought process/game plan, forgive me ladies. I sometimes use harsh ugly words/plans that scumbags do, because I'm used to scumbags and beating about the bush serves no purpose when trying to deal with *them*, their victims deserve kindness and mercy)
and disabling immune system makes folk easier to hit with other bioweapons.
Women though are more prone ot autoimmune problems.

6) As said, the sucmbags like "deniability"
The Cold War nuke stuff was insane, a lie, bullshit. the real threat wasn't missiles, but someone smuggling in a huge dirty bomb very easily in a container or such. gets by all defences and can be hugely powerful as it doesn't have to fit on a missile etc
but, if such is discovered, you are screwed, hard to deny a bloody great bomb!
But a vial of bacteria is much easier hidden or destroyed in emergency.

none of this proves that HIV of ME/CFS are anything other than natural diseases. it does muddy the waters though, it is plausible.
as said, this is one reason why sane folk wanted rid of these damnable things.
if different sides produce different weapons, you never know what outbreak is natural or an attack! can provoke wars
and threat of accident is far, far larger than that of attack, indeed it becomes an inevitability
have a look at "Lyme Disease"....

IMHO, this subject should be filed under "to be thought on seriously, keep a sleepy eye on but don't waste too much time on"

 

[alex3619]

Most conspiracy theories have some plausibility. Take a few facts, put them together, create a story ... instant conspiracy theory. Most are wrong. Some are right, or partially right (they usually don't have all the facts). Identifying the correct theories is about getting hard evidence, documentation, and whistleblowers, all saying things that do not permit alternative explanations. In something this big, this pervasive, the truth will eventually be impossible to contain. Once a generation of new people come to power who are not implicated, that might happen. Or it might not, if the theory is completely wrong, or mostly wrong.

As an aside, I am working on an idea. My main goal is to discredit psychobabble. That isn't hard to do, the problem is most people don't want to know, and don't want to believe, despite abundant evidence and clear reason. That makes me wonder about many conspiracy theories though - how many are right, have clear evidence, and sound reason, and yet are still ignored?

I have looked into a few conspiracy theories related to CFS or ME. Every one had serious flaws, including claiming vague, suggestive or unimportant evidence as proof of conspiracy. They often have some very funny ideas about what constitutes proof. It is far better, in my view, to stick to the facts. The US government has openly admitted and apologized for at least two separate and secret experiments on people with syphilis. In one case it was African Americans, the other prisoners. These were possibly "expendable" people in the eyes of those doing the experiment, but one was an isolated community, and the other a prison. So these things can happen, the question is what did happen.

I am currently looking into the history of a mainstream discipline. It is pervasive, determines government policy worldwide, and has probably damaged the lives of hundreds of millions of people. They have intricate detailed theories. These theories do not however stand up against empirical evidence. Even the foundations of their theories are unsubstantiated with objective evidence, relying instead on tricky convoluted explanations of why things are the way they are ... and ignoring evidence that things are not the way they claim. This is taught in educational institutions world-wide, they often get involved in politics, and they are kind-of respected, though many look at them with distrust given their track record.

No, its not psychiatry.

Stay tuned.

 

[overtrain]

Most conspiracy theories have some plausibility. Take a few facts, put them together, create a story ... instant conspiracy theory. Most are wrong. Some are right, or partially right (they usually don't have all the facts). Identifying the correct theories is about getting hard evidence, documentation, and whistleblowers, all saying things that do not permit alternative explanations. In something this big, this pervasive, the truth will eventually be impossible to contain. Once a generation of new people come to power who are not implicated, that might happen. Or it might not, if the theory is completely wrong, or mostly wrong.

As an aside, I am working on an idea. My main goal is to discredit psychobabble. That isn't hard to do, the problem is most people don't want to know, and don't want to believe, despite abundant evidence and clear reason. That makes me wonder about many conspiracy theories though - how many are right, have clear evidence, and sound reason, and yet are still ignored?

I have looked into a few conspiracy theories related to CFS or ME. Every one had serious flaws, including claiming vague, suggestive or unimportant evidence as proof of conspiracy. They often have some very funny ideas about what constitutes proof. It is far better, in my view, to stick to the facts. The US government has openly admitted and apologized for at least two separate and secret experiments on people with syphilis. In one case it was African Americans, the other prisoners. These were possibly "expendable" people in the eyes of those doing the experiment, but one was an isolated community, and the other a prison. So these things can happen, the question is what did happen.

I am currently looking into the history of a mainstream discipline. It is pervasive, determines government policy worldwide, and has probably damaged the lives of hundreds of millions of people. They have intricate detailed theories. These theories do not however stand up against empirical evidence. Even the foundations of their theories are unsubstantiated with objective evidence, relying instead on tricky convoluted explanations of why things are the way they are ... and ignoring evidence that things are not the way they claim. This is taught in educational institutions world-wide, they often get involved in politics, and they are kind-of respected, though many look at them with distrust given their track record.

No, its not psychiatry.

Stay tuned.

alex3619
there is an article on website trueactivist:
16 Conspiracy Theories That Turned Out To Be True

Am rdg it at the moment... Interesting stuff. I'm interested in your theories re the field you're looking into.

 

[alex3619]

I am targeted at psychogenic psychiatry, which is increasingly looking like pseudoscience. I did not want to attack the rest of psychiatry, despite its flaws, as this would look like an anti-psychiatry crusade. Instead I started looking elsewhere. Is there any other discipline that is full of babble, keen to be seen as scientific, influential, and taught in a dogmatic fashion? That harms millions of people, and almost nobody cares? It turns out there is. Psychobabble is not alone.

 

[overtrain]

I am targeted at psychogenic psychiatry, which is increasingly looking like pseudoscience. I did not want to attack the rest of psychiatry, despite its flaws, as this would look like an anti-psychiatry crusade. Instead I started looking elsewhere. Is there any other discipline that is full of babble, keen to be seen as scientific, influential, and taught in a dogmatic fashion? That harms millions of people, and almost nobody cares? It turns out there is. Psychobabble is not alone.

Your tagline (end quote on postings) says it all, truly. I noticed that a while back & wrote it on a file card & put it on wall over my computer. I agree about focus on one branch of the field, otherwise inciting riot & making it easy to ignore the message. The old kill the messenger thing. Of ALL so-called health care professionals i encountered during my darkest CFS/ME days, none were as outright belligerent, sickeningly ignorant, & downright threatened by pure common sense and basic human decency (much less the effing access to Medline patients have), than the got their diplomas on the wall jerkwad shrinks i wasted my time & out of pocket cash seeing.

It's, in the end, imho, all about control.

 

[overtrain]

Most conspiracy theories have some plausibility. Take a few facts, put them together, create a story ... instant conspiracy theory. Most are wrong. Some are right, or partially right (they usually don't have all the facts). Identifying the correct theories is about getting hard evidence, documentation, and whistleblowers, all saying things that do not permit alternative explanations. In something this big, this pervasive, the truth will eventually be impossible to contain. Once a generation of new people come to power who are not implicated, that might happen. Or it might not, if the theory is completely wrong, or mostly wrong.

As an aside, I am working on an idea. My main goal is to discredit psychobabble. That isn't hard to do, the problem is most people don't want to know, and don't want to believe, despite abundant evidence and clear reason. That makes me wonder about many conspiracy theories though - how many are right, have clear evidence, and sound reason, and yet are still ignored?

I have looked into a few conspiracy theories related to CFS or ME. Every one had serious flaws, including claiming vague, suggestive or unimportant evidence as proof of conspiracy. They often have some very funny ideas about what constitutes proof. It is far better, in my view, to stick to the facts. The US government has openly admitted and apologized for at least two separate and secret experiments on people with syphilis. In one case it was African Americans, the other prisoners. These were possibly "expendable" people in the eyes of those doing the experiment, but one was an isolated community, and the other a prison. So these things can happen, the question is what did happen.

I am currently looking into the history of a mainstream discipline. It is pervasive, determines government policy worldwide, and has probably damaged the lives of hundreds of millions of people. They have intricate detailed theories. These theories do not however stand up against empirical evidence. Even the foundations of their theories are unsubstantiated with objective evidence, relying instead on tricky convoluted explanations of why things are the way they are ... and ignoring evidence that things are not the way they claim. This is taught in educational institutions world-wide, they often get involved in politics, and they are kind-of respected, though many look at them with distrust given their track record.

No, its not psychiatry.

Stay tuned.

lower income af-amer families... Cleveland Metropolitan General Hospital... 1,073 infants injected with SV40 in up to 100 times rec. adult vaccine dosage... With no parental knowledge or consent. The list is endless whee the U.S. Gov. Has deliberately ruined lives for kicks and grins.

 

[alex3619]

It's, in the end, imho, all about control.

Psychiatry has no cures. In the end its mostly about controlling behaviour. If people wont learn to behave, drug them. If that doesn't work, incarcerate them. Tell everyone its for their own good, and you must know, you are a doctor. This has been used to justify teeth and colon removal, insulin therapy, shock therapy, lobotomies, etc, in the earlier part of last century. Back then, and now, its sometimes used to section people who are sick and causing a ruckus. The treat people with "mental" illness as though they were non-citizens, disrespect them, and use unproven or hypothetical treatments. Not all psychs do this, and the worst abuses are much less common these days, but there should be a zero tolerance rate. There isn't. Why aren't the rest of the psychs speaking out? Why aren't the rest of the medical community? Silence is consent.

These days the primary problems are excessive an inappropriate drug use, and psychologization of normal behaviour and physical disease. There are also too many cases of social workers using out of date and discredited psychoanalytic analysis to take people into care by force. Why aren't the APA and the AMA and similar organizations in other countries taking a stand against this?

 

[alex3619]

About controlling human population, from those worried about growing populations and goods scarcity: lets presume that that is why things like bioweapons are used. It wont work. Scarcity is coming regardless, driven by continued growth. Maximum resource availability is capped, a straight line on a time graph. Available resources has a slow growth curve, but max out approaching the max resource line. Economic expansion, and the consequent utilization of resources, is exponential. At best they buy themselves a decade or two. At worst they buy themselves no time at all as more resources will be used to deal with the sick and dying.

They pretend they can go over the capped resource limit (and there are ways to do this, none easy, none guaranteed, and and all take oodles of time and money to get there) without consequences. Instead our growth model is going to hit a perpetual crisis. I don't know when that will happen, I only know the mathematics clearly shows there is a limit to growth in a closed system.

 

[knackers323]

I dont know if i totally believe it but i guess its possible, here's a copy and paste. Interesting none the less.

http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/activism/skullvalley.html
In The Extremely Unfortunate Skull Valley Incident, the reader is taken into the shadowy underworld of American military politics to examine the role of various agencies in the development and testing of biological and chemical weapons. Facts are taken from U.S. government documents, studied in the context of historical events and then used to form a hypothesis that the infectious agents responsible for the current epidemics of AIDS and CFS were created in a military lab.

The name of this book is taken from the text of a government meeting held in 1969, during which reference is made to "the extremely unfortunate Skull Valley incident." In Skull Valley, an American military test of a deadly nerve gas went terribly wrong and resulted in the death of several thousand sheep downwind from the test site. Thus, the title of this book serves to remind the reader that errors and unforseen events do occur and when they occur with biological weapons, the results are devastating.

June 9, 1969Department of Defense records indicate that on this date a meeting was held between Dr. Donald MacArthur, Director of Research in the Biological Warfare Branch of the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) and a small group of U.S. Congressmen. An official record of that meeting, obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, provides shocking revelations, even 30 years later.

Dr. MacArthur reported to the Congressmen that within 5 to 10 years it would be possible to create a synthetic biological agent that would disable the human immune system. Two versions would be developed, one that would leave its victims dead, and another that would chronically disable its victims. He requested, and was given, 10 million dollars to perform the research. He warned the congressmen that this was highly controversial research because an error in testing the new agent, or some unforeseen development, may release a pathogen that could kill or disable millions of innocent victims.

1976-1984
Isolated cases of two strange new diseases began appearing in the U.S. and in Africa. Some of the victims died; others remained seriously ill for years.

By 1984, there were two epidemics underway. AIDS was rapidly spreading through many third world countries and the homosexual population of North America. Clusters of a mysterious disease later named chronic fatigue syndrome were reported throughout North America.

We now know that both illnesses are characterized by marked loss of immune system integrity. One of the diseases kills its victims, while the other disables. It is interesting to note that Dr. MacArthur's timeline of 5-10 years puts us well within the years that AIDS and CFS first made their debuts. The authors ask if this is simply a coincidence, or if the DoD were indeed successful in their endeavours.

Much of what happened between the years 1969 and 1984 has never been uncovered. For those years, the authors delve into history to paint a picture of what might have occurred. Yet, the fact remains that in 1969 the DoD promised two new diseases in 5-10 years, and 5-10 years later two new diseases, matching the criteria, emerged.

One is left to ponder the rationale for introducing any new diseases into the world, let alone two as devastating as AIDS and CFS. The authors take us back through history to develop a view of the political climate that made this effort possible.

AIDS
According to the authors, in the early 1900's, several prominent American families began to worry that world population growth would threaten their established position and power, as well as the global position of the United States. Certain third world countries supplied raw products to the U.S. at extremely low prices. It was thought that if the population of these countries continued to grow at an exponential rate, they would then require the raw products for their own population. American production and quality of living was greatly threatened.

This ideology was transformed into action in 1959 when a report to President Eisenhower recommended that, for the above mentioned reasons of national security, a method must be found to accelerate the death rate in those countries.

CFS
During World War II, interest in chemical and biological weapons began to grow. The Nazi's had well-developed chemical weapons that they used to exterminate millions of Jews. The Japanese had well-developed biological weapons which they tested in New Guinea and on prisoners of war in Manchuria. At war's end, some Nazi and Japanese scientists were offered immunity from prosecution as war criminals if they would share their secrets with the United States Department of Defense.

At the DoD meeting on June 9, 1969, interest was expressed in biological and chemical weapons that disable the enemy, rather than kill them. The rationale was that it is a tremendous burden for the enemy to have to care for its disabled population. Dr. MacArthur reported that his department had some of the top scientists in the country working "for years" to develop "more effective incapacitating agents", but that it was very difficult work. Key in this statement are the words for years and more effective. They imply that the DoD is already studying certain incapacitating agents, and are now focusing on making them more disabling. What were these agents, and where were they being tested?

Also revealed was the fact that the U.S. DoD had over 2,000 people working in its laboratories and an annual budget of $90 million dollars for chemical and biological weapons research. What were they doing?

The authors do not examine in detail the pathogen responsible for AIDS, perhaps subscribing to the belief that the HIV virus is the culprit. It does, indeed, fit Dr. MacArthur's criteria of being previously unknown and disabling to the human immune system.

They do, however, provide evidence to suggest that laboratory manipulation of the brucellosis bacteria has resulted in a pathogen that causes the disease later named Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

Brucellosis is a pathogen that has been around for centuries, generally causing disease in farm animals, and only occasionally making the leap to humans. In most cases, the victim recovers after a few weeks or months, but in some instances a chronic disease would develop. The symptoms attributed to brucellosis are familiar: low grade fever, malaise, fatigue, headache, weakness, sweats, chills, backache, myalgias, anorexia, nausea, cough and major organ damage. The onset of brucellosis can be acute or gradual. The disease typically presents a multitude of complaints and very few physical findings. It is notoriously difficult to diagnose based upon laboratory findings.

The fact that brucellosis has been around for centuries ties in with the belief that CFS is not a new disease. Brucellosis infection occurred occasionally and would have presented as a disease very similar to CFS, as seems to be the case with Florence Nightingale. However, no one will dispute the fact that beginning in the early 1980's, unprecedented numbers of individuals began acquiring this disease. Something happened to make this disease much more prevalent and much more disabling. The Extremely Unfortunate Skull Valley Incident argues compellingly that this change occurred in the laboratory.

If indeed AIDS and CFS are the products of the DoD efforts to create a new microorganism for which there would be no natural immunity, then how did they make the leap from the laboratory to the world's population. The problem with biological weapons is that they have to be tested. It is a very daunting challenge indeed to recruit willing volunteers for biological weapons testing. How, then, would their effectiveness be measured?

AIDS
As no official record has been found directly linking AIDS to the DoD, the authors are left to study history for the connection. If Dr. MacArthur's 5-10 year projection was correct, sometime in the mid 1970's the new agents would be ready for testing. It is just at this time that the World Health Organization, with funding from the United States, initiated a program of 'smallpox eradication' in many of the countries targeted earlier by the U.S. as needing population control. Villagers flocked to the vaccination centers, eager for this weapon against the deadly disease. 5 years later, a high percentage of these villagers had AIDS. Today many of these countries are associated with devastating incidences of AIDS (including much of Africa), and their populations are indeed being reduced.

In 1979, under the supervision of Dr. Don Francis of the Centers for Disease Control (who also oversaw the smallpox eradication program), gay men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco received vaccinations against 'Hepatitis B'. Again, a high percentage of the recipients came down with AIDS. The authors make special note of this coincidence.

CFS
The authors develop the theory that there have been many tests, over the years and on unsuspecting victims, to perfect the disabling pathogen that causes CFS. Those who have studied the history of CFS will immediately recognize such places as Akureyri, Iceland; Key West, Florida; Truckee, Nevada; and Lyndonville, New York. The authors point out that each early outbreak occurred in a relatively isolated or contained location and within a specific population; i.e. elementary school children in Lyndonville and high school teachers in Truckee. Schools and hospitals seem to have been favorite test sites. The authors assume that the isolated locales were specifically chosen as to minimize publicity and to help contain the pathogen should an accident or unforeseen event occur. The specific populations targeted would simply make it easier to monitor the outcome of the test.

Typically, the Centers for Disease Control and the National Institutes of Health helped the military to monitor such tests. These agencies would need to, at the very least, be informed of the testing, because it would fall to them to investigate such outbreaks. The last thing the DoD needed was the CDC or NIH investigator innocently publicizing information that could link the outbreak with the biological weapons program.

The Gulf War Syndrome Connection
An official United States Government document cited by the authors details several shipments of biological weapons to Iraq between the years 1985 and 1989. These weapons were sent to Iraq to assist in the war against Iran. Included on the list of agents shipped to Iraq are Brucella abortus Biotypes 3 and 9; and Brucella melitensis Biotypes 1 and 3, the pathogens the authors claim cause CFS. The authors believe that these agents, along with a 'cocktail of others' were subsequently used against Allied forces in the Gulf War, causing Gulf War Syndrome (GWS), a condition nearly identical to CFS.

The U.S. Government's own documents list the symptoms of Brucella melitensis as: chronic fatigue, loss of appetite, profuse sweating when at rest, pain in joints and muscles, nausea, and damage to major organs. How did they find out what the symptoms of infection with this biological agent are?

It's all in your head
It's easy to see why the official government response to CFS and GWS has been to readily promote the notion that sufferers are mentally ill. Were the physical basis for these illnesses documented and the connection made to the American, Canadian and British militaries, and therefore governments, the repercussions for such agencies would be astronomical. It is interesting to note that the initial government response to AIDS was to claim mental illness. That story was rapidly discarded, however, when AIDS victims began dying en masse.

The Extremely Unfortunate Skull Valley Incident is, at the very least, a thought provoking work. Much of what the authors detail is difficult to imagine. Throughout the book, the authors contempt for those involved, and indeed the entire process, is clearly discernable. Yet, one wonders, who wouldn't be angry at the individuals responsible for such devastating events?

Upon completion of the book, I couldn't help but wonder about the authors' account of the testing of the brucellosis pathogen. Why the outbreaks in Iceland, the U.S., Canada and Great Britain? If Africans were deemed expendable enough to warrant testing of the AIDS virus, then why not test the brucellosis pathogen there as well? Essentially, why disable your own population? Or, did something get out of hand, as it did in Skull Valley? Perhaps the DoD ended up with a pathogen that was not as easily containable as they thought it would be.

It would be easy to simply disregard this work, believing that it's nonsensical speculation and far too outrageous to have any foundation in the truth. However, just the simple facts, detailed in the U.S. government's own documents, speak volumes. In 1969, the Pentagon promised a new infectious agent that the human immune system would be unable to defend against. One version would be deadly, the other chronic and disabling. By 1979 we witnessed the emergence of two new diseases which disable the immune system. One was deadly, the other chronic and disabling. In the 1980's, the U.S. sold biological weapons components to Iraq, including one which causes an illness identical to Gulf War Syndrome. Following a war against Iraq, soldiers developed this disease.

These are very strange coincidences.

Is it absolute fact that these two diseases were developed? What are we told were done with them?
Isn't it dr learner that says he actually helped develop the brucellosis pathogen?
How about project day lily?
Or the fact that there is supposedly something in the u.k's documents that was recently meant to become available to the public but at the last minute was sealed for another 99 years or so.

F@$k these arseholes who treat other people this way. What i dont get though, if they are willing to unleash these things on people. Are they not worried about becoming infected also?

 

[overtrain]

Psychiatry has no cures. In the end its mostly about controlling behaviour. If people wont learn to behave, drug them. If that doesn't work, incarcerate them. Tell everyone its for their own good, and you must know, you are a doctor. This has been used to justify teeth and colon removal, insulin therapy, shock therapy, lobotomies, etc, in the earlier part of last century. Back then, and now, its sometimes used to section people who are sick and causing a ruckus. The treat people with "mental" illness as though they were non-citizens, disrespect them, and use unproven or hypothetical treatments. Not all psychs do this, and the worst abuses are much less common these days, but there should be a zero tolerance rate. There isn't. Why aren't the rest of the psychs speaking out? Why aren't the rest of the medical community? Silence is consent.

These days the primary problems are excessive an inappropriate drug use, and psychologization of normal behaviour and physical disease. There are also too many cases of social workers using out of date and discredited psychoanalytic analysis to take people into care by force. Why aren't the APA and the AMA and similar organizations in other countries taking a stand against this?

They aren't spkg out ag it bc there's too much $ in complicity. And whistleblowers have an eerie way of evaporating off the planet....
Really, 99% is about pathologizing the creative, other-functioning faction of the population. I lived in the heart of san francisco for two decades so it goes wo saying i ran into 'crazy' ppl daily....muttering under their breath.... You ever listen to what some are saying? They're the sanest ppl on earth.

 

[overtrain]

Y

They aren't spkg out ag it bc there's too much $ in complicity. And whistleblowers have an eerie way of evaporating off the planet....
Really, 99% is about pathologizing the creative, other-functioning faction of the population. I lived in the heart of san francisco for two decades so it goes wo saying i ran into 'crazy' ppl daily....muttering under their breath.... You ever listen to what some are saying? They're the sanest ppl on earth.

yeah, control of the physical aspect of our being is grievous also... I am still angry my wisdom teeth were removed FOR NO MEDICAL REASON. I need those teeth back.

 

[overtrain]

Some

Is it absolute fact that these two diseases were developed? What are we told were done with them?
Isn't it dr learner that says he actually helped develop the brucellosis pathogen?
How about project day lily?
Or the fact that there is supposedly something in the u.k's documents that was recently meant to become available to the public but at the last minute was sealed for another 99 years or so.

F@$k these arseholes who treat other people this way. What i dont get though, if they are willing to unleash these things on people. Are they not worried about becoming infected also?

one should take them to court re sealed docs.

I too have the q. Re aren't they worried about being infected... I puzzle over that a lot when it comes to GMOs, etc., as well. Only concl. is there's info. we don't have that they DO, as in cures. I think it's up to the people to help the people at this point. To find cures, to keep fighting for clean air, water, good nutritious food, human rights.