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Fibromyalgia solved; a pathology not in the mind (research)

Messages
10,157
WASHINGTON, October 17, 2013— The National Biotechnology Information Center (NBIC) of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) recently released the findings of research funded by grants from Eli Lilly Pharmaceuticals and Forest Laboratories that claim to have discovered a pathological (the science of cause and effect) cause for fibromyalgia.

The causes of the disease have escaped researchers for year. In fact, the condition was considered by many in the field of medicine as psychosomatic (in the mind) because of the variety of symptoms that could not be clinically pinned down.

Dr. Frank Rice writes of findings at Integrated Tissue Dynamics that has made a major discovery of the cause of fibromyalgia making diagnosis more certain and explaining the multitude of varied symptoms and effects.

Research has identified alterations in our core body temperature is a culprit as our blood acts as a coolant in much the same fashion water does in the radiator of a car and our major organs and active muscles require a constant temperature of about 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit.

Read the rest of the article here.
 

melihtas

Senior Member
Messages
137
Location
Istanbul Turkey
My hands and feet have always been cold and sweaty. I need to wear socks even in summer. My body has difficulty to regulate the temperature. When i feel cold i drink an hot tea and begin sweating. But i don't know whether all these are the cause or effect of me/cfs.
 

Bob

Senior Member
Messages
16,455
Location
England (south coast)
Dr. Frank Rice writes of findings at Integrated Tissue Dynamics...
Here's the article by Dr Frank Rice:
http://www.intidyn.com/Newsroom/Fibromyalgia Pathology for lay people 2013-06-24.pdf
And a related press release:
http://www.intidyn.com/Newsroom/article-0009.html


And here's the research paper that it's based on (but the full article is behind a paywall):

Excessive peptidergic sensory innervation of cutaneous arteriole-venule shunts (AVS) in the palmar glabrous skin of fibromyalgia patients: implications for widespread deep tissue pain and fatigue.
Albrecht PJ, Hou Q, Argoff CE, Storey JR, Wymer JP, Rice FL.
Pain Med. 2013 Jun;14(6):895-915.
doi: 10.1111/pme.12139. Epub 2013 May 20.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/pme.12139/abstract


Edit:
The Journal of Pain Medicine featured this research on its front cover accompanied by a laudatory editorial from Robert Gerwin of the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.
This looks like it must be the editorial in Pain Medicine, by Robert Gerwin:
http://inspiretocure.org/Newsroom/Albrecht et al 2013 editorial.pdf

.
 

Shell

Senior Member
Messages
477
Location
England
Interesting stuff, - would like to have seen a link to the paper though. The "bust thermostat" is very much a part of Fibro but it's also a part of ME and Dysauto stuff. It seems to be saying there's yet more evidence of a HPA dysfunction pointing back to Woods et al's findings suggesting (strongly) that FMS is a form of hyperadrenergic POTS.
As a fibromite with increasing breakdown of the ANS I can see how it all fits. But the idea that there will be a suitable therapy soon - I'm way too cynical to believe that:whistle:
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
This connects to earlier work on both capillaries and small nerve fibers. Its not necessarily a "cause", but it does look like the physiological driver of symptoms. Once we find out why this is happening (if its replicated and stands up to scrutiny) then we may have the cause. In the meantime the pathophysiology can be used to identify patients, and to indicate targets for treatment.

About half of all CFS patients qualify for fibro. If a diagnostic test is commercialized, then this could change both the politics and the science.

Even if this is shown to be 100% of the drivers of the symptoms, it may not directly lead to a cure as to do that we probably need to understanding the underlying causal mechanisms. If it can be replicated then we may be a big step closer to that cure though.
 

vamah

Senior Member
Messages
593
Location
Washington , DC area
I didn't get a lot of the science, but the general idea is fascinating. My body temp is always abnormally low and my hands and feel get numb and painful in the winter. Interestingly, wearing heavy socks and shoes makes this problem worse because I do not then have full range of motion to flex my toes which is the only thing that seems to warm them up.

Even if scientists don't have answers on how to solve this problem yet, it is always nice to see research that contradicts the notion that the disease is psychological.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Essentially they are saying there is something wrong with the balance of nerves that regulate small blood vessels. As a result patients do not respond appropriately to temperature, and changes in temperature. These problems can lead to pain, fatigue and heat, but also might provide a basis for orthostatic intolerance. Further as blood supply can be compromised, there might be problems exercising.
 
Messages
15,786
AVS had significantly increased innervation among FM patients. The excessive innervation consisted of a greater proportion of vasodilatory sensory fibers, compared with vasoconstrictive sympathetic fibers. In contrast, sensory and sympathetic innervation to arterioles remained normal. Importantly, the sensory fibers express α2C receptors, indicating that the sympathetic innervation exerts an inhibitory modulation of sensory activity.
I'm trying to figure out the importance of the a2C (ADRA2C) receptors. They're closely related to the a2A (ADRA2A) receptors mentioned in some very recent ME/CFS research, and are very up-regulated after exertion.

a2C and a2A basically seem to do the same thing, just at different levels of stimulation. a2C (fibromyalgia) reacts to lower levels of nervous system activity, whereas a2A reacts to more intense activity.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
Anecdotal response: Some years ago I was treated by an autonomic specialist for dysautonomia (OI, etc.). He used combinations of low dose drug therapy. At that time, and for years before, I had had all the symptoms of fibro. After taking Strattera (10 mg twice a day if I remember) and Cymbalta (20 mg I think), most of my temperature regulation problems cleared up.

Also, my hands and feet were no longer cold and my fibro pain disappeared. The interesting thing is that these symptoms didn't come back after I stopped these medications. I never understood why but maybe there is a clue in this article:

The sympathetic nervous system which uses the spinal cord for communication and the sensory fibers or nerve fibers that carry signals to the central nervous system, can have their communication disrupted by the results of AV shunt disorder and hyposensitized nerves send pain signals that can ‘travel’ as well. This explains why some selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors such as Cymbalta seem to help.


Sushi
 

August59

Daughters High School Graduation
Messages
1,617
Location
Upstate SC, USA
This would probably explain the roving heat monster I have under my skin. Also, why I get blood pooling in my feet that makes them turn black. If I wear shoes I will soak a pair of socks in about 2 hours from my feet sweating because the blood will not circulate through the capillaries fast enough. This is according to a vascular doctor, but he had no treatment options to offer me.

This probably the case with ME/CFS, except it is restricted blood flow through our organs and muscles. That would aslo explain very poor detox as well
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
This was great news :)

The National Biotechnology Information Center (NBIC) of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) recently released the findings of research funded by grants from Eli Lilly Pharmaceuticals and Forest Laboratories

Why arent I surprised that its the drug companies funding some good research into an illness like Fibro rather then the government. I wish the drug companies would get some serious interest in ME (I guess till its offically separated from CFS, things with all the different definitions make study into our illness too difficult).
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
This would probably explain the roving heat monster I have under my skin. Also, why I get blood pooling in my feet that makes them turn black. If I wear shoes I will soak a pair of socks in about 2 hours from my feet sweating because the blood will not circulate through the capillaries fast enough. This is according to a vascular doctor, but he had no treatment options to offer me.

This probably the case with ME/CFS, except it is restricted blood flow through our organs and muscles. That would aslo explain very poor detox as well

August...
My sisters ex had a issue with badly sweating feet (soaking socks like you do ..plantar hyperhidrosis its called.. he was fine elsewhere, it was just his feet) and the issue was something to do with his sweat glands in his feet being overactive. They can apparently treat that (my niece has inherited the same issue with her feet, her feet were running sweat even as a baby).

I suggest to look up the treatments (from what I remember it was by surgery or something like that, some kind of procedure to treat it. He'd already tried meds. It can be treated but many doctor ignore treating it due to lack of realizing how badly this affects some).
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
I wonder why the thyroid doesn't figure more prominently in this research considering its importance on body temperature.

I wish all people with fibromyalgia would be assessed properly for hypothyroidism and not just tested for TSH. I bet a great many cases would disappear.


Hi all,
Ema, I agree.

Dr.John Lowe was convinced that the hormone T3 is the treatment for fibromyalgia from personal experience and from lots of patients he had been treating. The last interview with him and other good information
http://recoveringwitht3.com/blog/dr-john-c-lowes-final-interview
Unfortunately no scientific study is done so far.

I also recommend www.stopthethyroidmadness.com for more information about optimal treatment of hypothyroidism for you that are interested and haven´t been there before.
 
Messages
13,774
This looks like it must be the editorial in Pain Medicine, by Robert Gerwin:
http://inspiretocure.org/Newsroom/Albrecht et al 2013 editorial.pdf

I was just reading some bits on bobs on FMS in Pain from 2010.

Psychological approaches are effective for fibromyalgia: remaining issues and challenges.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20800359

And a reply:
Psychological approaches have not been demonstrated to be effective for fibromyalgia.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21316149

Interesting to see how things have moved on.
 

August59

Daughters High School Graduation
Messages
1,617
Location
Upstate SC, USA
August...
My sisters ex had a issue with badly sweating feet (soaking socks like you do ..plantar hyperhidrosis its called.. he was fine elsewhere, it was just his feet) and the issue was something to do with his sweat glands in his feet being overactive. They can apparently treat that (my niece has inherited the same issue with her feet, her feet were running sweat even as a baby).

I suggest to look up the treatments (from what I remember it was by surgery or something like that, some kind of procedure to treat it. He'd already tried meds. It can be treated but many doctor ignore treating it due to lack of realizing how badly this affects some).

The reason I'm getting such severe sweating on my feet when I'm wearing shoes goes back to my feet turn black and blue while sitting or standing and evidently even while walking. They couldn't figure out why my capillaries were not letting the oxygen depleted blood to flow normally. It's almost as if I have severe vasoconstriction, but the Mayo Clinic and my vascular doctor here at home ran every test possible and it was all normal. The only thing that actually was abnormal was skin perfusion when the doctor presses his thumb on it for 10 sec., it takes maybe a minute before the dimple to come out and the color to come back in the spot.

I do have plantar fasciitis in both feet and a marble sized plantar fibroma on my left foot. Podiatrist and from what I've read is not to try to remove them unless they get huge because they more than likely will return.

Thank you for the information and it is still something to consider.