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Another hypnotist claims he can cure ME??? (Steven Blake)
- Thread starter Boule de feu
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SilverbladeTE
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Hey,our governments spun the "WMD in iraq!" line, so there's NOTHING bozos can't sell, top or bottom of the barrel
Least we don't have Myalgic Petroleumbum, or they'd invade our colons, proctologists becoming millionaires!
Snow Leopard
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The problem with the 'honesty' argument is that if the guy has convinced himself that his technique works then anyone who is basing the potential for success on his honesty will be convinced.
I have met people like this before and they honestly believe what they are saying is true. Although in this particular case, who knows...
I have met people like this before and they honestly believe what they are saying is true. Although in this particular case, who knows...
SilverbladeTE
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Muhaha!!
alex3619
Senior Member
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Someone who believes in the extreme power of the mind might be easy prey to psychobabble. While I don't doubt some understand the real issues, far too many have been conned - and that includes medical practitioners including many psychiatrists. Misinformation has even fooled many patients into thinking (for years at least) that its all the head. Now if someone persists over a long period in time in making bogus claims then we can probably presume they have had time to be informed they are wrong and why.
Now in this case the alarming thing is it only takes ONE session to cure us. Really? Nobody else has stumbled on this miracle cure? I doublt very much he understands the issues, or the claims, or the science. He has a very one sided view and seems to think the mind can do almost anything. This is someone who is misguided in my view, although I do suspect he could do harm to people if someone with ME pushes themselves and crashes. This harm is not just physical, it takes an emotional toll when treatments fail.
Having said all that I do wonder at people who have made a profession at manipulating the mind.
Bye, Alex
Now in this case the alarming thing is it only takes ONE session to cure us. Really? Nobody else has stumbled on this miracle cure? I doublt very much he understands the issues, or the claims, or the science. He has a very one sided view and seems to think the mind can do almost anything. This is someone who is misguided in my view, although I do suspect he could do harm to people if someone with ME pushes themselves and crashes. This harm is not just physical, it takes an emotional toll when treatments fail.
Having said all that I do wonder at people who have made a profession at manipulating the mind.
Bye, Alex
biophile
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I used to be really into the "power of the mind" and fell prey to psychobabble too. At first it was empowering and gave me much needed hope, but this lead to a series of humiliating reality checks or "adjustments" as the illness didn't respond well to such beliefs in action. I don't reject the existence or at least appearance of a mind-body connection in various degrees for different illnesses, but the notion tends to be misused/abused or overstated and used as a gap-filler. After personal experiences and researching the literature, I've grown very skeptical about major therapeutic claims.
The deceptive appearance of a mind-body connection in ME/CFS seems to arise from biological vulnerabilities rather than primary psychological problems causing psycho>somatic reactions in otherwise healthy people. However, the presence of post-exertional symptoms in response to both mental and physical activity does raise the possibility that cognitive and behavioural changes can be helpful when adjusting to illness limitations. I do not mean CBT/GET but acceptance and pacing for example, and I wouldn't rule out some mind-body techniques having some benefit for some patients.
I generally agree with the other comments posted on this thread. Also consider that "chronic fatigue" and some other generalized symptoms with vague descriptions associated with CFS such as "chronic pain" are common in the general population and are heterogeneous (in the usual sense rather than the Peter White for CFS sense). The prevalence estimates of chronic fatigue is about 10-20%, Reeves/Oxford criteria CFS is about 2-3%, Fukuda criteria CFS is about 0.2-0.5%, and Canadian criteria ME/CFS is about 0.1%. Patients meeting the new ME-ICC criteria are probably rarer.
So for every Canadian criteria ME/CFS patient (which itself isn't a perfect litmus test either) there are hundreds of people with "chronic fatigue", many of which have exclusionary medical or psychiatric conditions. Combine all this with a lack of accurate awareness, poor diagnostic precision in routine clinical practice, and misleading overlap with psychiatric symptoms. It is a recipe for disaster, quackery, psychobabble, and the illusion of control.
Chances of recovery are poorer as the criteria gets stricter. It is also possible to be housebound and bedridden without meeting strict ME/CFS criteria due to lack of other symptoms. However, some ex-patients claim to have had genuine severe ME/CFS meeting strict criteria and still recovered relatively quickly once using mind-body techniques after years of illness. There are a number of possible explanations for this, but we need better diagnostic accuracy and reliable biomarkers to help sort out the discrepancies.
I like alex3619's new signature: "If we have a psychosomatic illness because a physical illness cannot be objectively shown, how is a psychosomatic illness any more valid since it cannot be objectively shown?" A lot of the more extreme psychobabble claims about medically unexplained physical illness is often applied to classic organic diseases too eg the mind can cause and cure cancer, etc.
The deceptive appearance of a mind-body connection in ME/CFS seems to arise from biological vulnerabilities rather than primary psychological problems causing psycho>somatic reactions in otherwise healthy people. However, the presence of post-exertional symptoms in response to both mental and physical activity does raise the possibility that cognitive and behavioural changes can be helpful when adjusting to illness limitations. I do not mean CBT/GET but acceptance and pacing for example, and I wouldn't rule out some mind-body techniques having some benefit for some patients.
I generally agree with the other comments posted on this thread. Also consider that "chronic fatigue" and some other generalized symptoms with vague descriptions associated with CFS such as "chronic pain" are common in the general population and are heterogeneous (in the usual sense rather than the Peter White for CFS sense). The prevalence estimates of chronic fatigue is about 10-20%, Reeves/Oxford criteria CFS is about 2-3%, Fukuda criteria CFS is about 0.2-0.5%, and Canadian criteria ME/CFS is about 0.1%. Patients meeting the new ME-ICC criteria are probably rarer.
So for every Canadian criteria ME/CFS patient (which itself isn't a perfect litmus test either) there are hundreds of people with "chronic fatigue", many of which have exclusionary medical or psychiatric conditions. Combine all this with a lack of accurate awareness, poor diagnostic precision in routine clinical practice, and misleading overlap with psychiatric symptoms. It is a recipe for disaster, quackery, psychobabble, and the illusion of control.
Chances of recovery are poorer as the criteria gets stricter. It is also possible to be housebound and bedridden without meeting strict ME/CFS criteria due to lack of other symptoms. However, some ex-patients claim to have had genuine severe ME/CFS meeting strict criteria and still recovered relatively quickly once using mind-body techniques after years of illness. There are a number of possible explanations for this, but we need better diagnostic accuracy and reliable biomarkers to help sort out the discrepancies.
I like alex3619's new signature: "If we have a psychosomatic illness because a physical illness cannot be objectively shown, how is a psychosomatic illness any more valid since it cannot be objectively shown?" A lot of the more extreme psychobabble claims about medically unexplained physical illness is often applied to classic organic diseases too eg the mind can cause and cure cancer, etc.
Something else worth considering is that while there do seem to be a few people out there who had strictly diagnosed ME and who recovered following some mind-body techinque, the following tend to apply:
1) They are extremely rare, and are thus the exception rather than the rule. You cannot assume that the technique will work for everyone. If someone who happens to eat a lot of broccoli recovers from cancer, it may have been something that helped them in some way, but it doesn't make broccoli a cure for cancer.
2) Correlation does not equal causation. It's hard to tell how far any factor actually caused a recovery, especially since recovery is a relatively slow process and people who try this sort of thing tend to be trying other new things at the same time. This is where some solid clinical trials would be useful.
3) Sometimes these people do better for a few years, then relapse again. Emily Wilcox is one example, she's had several miraculous cures from her ME - but if they really were miraculous, she wouldn't be needing another cure a few years later.
If it turns out that 0.1% of people can truly recover from ME using a mind-body technique, then that's great for those few people, but it does not give the practitioners of said technique the right to say that they have a cure for ME.
1) They are extremely rare, and are thus the exception rather than the rule. You cannot assume that the technique will work for everyone. If someone who happens to eat a lot of broccoli recovers from cancer, it may have been something that helped them in some way, but it doesn't make broccoli a cure for cancer.
2) Correlation does not equal causation. It's hard to tell how far any factor actually caused a recovery, especially since recovery is a relatively slow process and people who try this sort of thing tend to be trying other new things at the same time. This is where some solid clinical trials would be useful.
3) Sometimes these people do better for a few years, then relapse again. Emily Wilcox is one example, she's had several miraculous cures from her ME - but if they really were miraculous, she wouldn't be needing another cure a few years later.
If it turns out that 0.1% of people can truly recover from ME using a mind-body technique, then that's great for those few people, but it does not give the practitioners of said technique the right to say that they have a cure for ME.
PhoenixDown
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DailyMail said:
No it's not, CBT advocates love to tell you how its not positive thinking. Morons with no critical thinking skills will now read this article thinking positive-thinking cures ME.
[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-79042/ME-woman-cure-works-her.html#ixzz1qme3dIUm
[/URL]
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The mind over body evangelists remind me of those who believe fervently in religious miracles, miracle believers often claim that when someone overcomes a terrible illness or escapes a grave situation that it was due to divine intervention. Well why is it that these interventions only every occur when someone could have just got better on their own, you don't hear about any limbs magically regrowing. In the same sense the miraculous recoveries people always attribute to mind manipulation techniques could always have been due to spontaneous remission or placebo, when someone comes up with a cognitive therapy to shrink tumours or destroy viruses I'll be interested, then I'll really believe in the power of the mind to cure physical diseases, until then I'm inclined to believe that an ME patient with genuine physiological abnormalities overcoming them by talking therapies alone is just as far-fetched and that the only prospect of a viable treatment is through proper scientific medicine.
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I am the Steven Blake who wrote the blog. I am neither a scam artist or naive, nor am I taking advantage of anyone. I'm happy to discuss my theory and results so far. Initially I was unable to respond here but opened up a thread and that seems to have allowed me on to reply here, so I apologise for being in two places discussing this. I feel any misunderstanding may be based on my work being accessed through the unconscious. This is a physical illness and the physical is controlled by the neurology, hence accessible there. Nor have I stated you can think your way out of it, I have stated the opposite - that negative thoughts can help trap you in it - but that is not the root cause only one of the symptoms. I welcome discussing anything you will like to raise that may help clarify exactly what and why I feel it may work. Could I ask that you read my theory first with an open mind before raising issues here so I can answer what I actually said.
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Where ever possible I guarantee my work, this puts the onus on me to get it right and the absolute surety that the client will keep returning for their FREE sessions if it doesn't (and therefore a valuable learning process). I cannot find where I wrote that as applying to ME but it is my standard working practice.
Undisclosed
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Steven Blake -- I read a bit of Lynda's story, you said:
I have one question here: What do you mean by 'release her from the NEED for fatigue and pain'?
Have you ever done your therapy with a person with Cancer and released them from the need for Cancer pain and fatigue?
Have you ever done your therapy with a person with Alzheimer's and released them from the need for lost memory?
The problem with your therapy is that you are blaming the patient by using the word 'need' and you seem to be suggesting that ME and its symptoms seem to be rooted in unconscious thoughts.
Isn't hypnotherapy supposed to be used for producing personal growth and personal empowerment not as a tool for curing disease.
Kina.
I have one question here: What do you mean by 'release her from the NEED for fatigue and pain'?
Have you ever done your therapy with a person with Cancer and released them from the need for Cancer pain and fatigue?
Have you ever done your therapy with a person with Alzheimer's and released them from the need for lost memory?
The problem with your therapy is that you are blaming the patient by using the word 'need' and you seem to be suggesting that ME and its symptoms seem to be rooted in unconscious thoughts.
Isn't hypnotherapy supposed to be used for producing personal growth and personal empowerment not as a tool for curing disease.
Kina.
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Hi Kina, thanks for the question. It is my speculation that the only way to stop a person who is driving themselves too hard is for the unconscious to take over and ensure they stop. In ME CFS it is mainly with severe fatigue and with Fibromyalgia it is mainly pain. But it does whatever it thinks will immobilise you because it "needs" to stop you and let recovery have a chance. I do a lot of release work, habits, depression, low self esteem and pain. If have not yet worked on Cancer or Alzheimer's as I have not had the opportunity nor have I studied them to the extent I have this, so i would not offer that false hope.
I am not blaming the patient - just the opposite it is because they don't give in to allowing themselves the relaxation of time to recover that the unconscious "gives" them things. It is no more a conscious act than a heart attack or any illness. As for pain it is a message and a call to action, when it is a prolonged message with no need for action it can be switched off. The part of the body that had the pain will still feel "new" instances of pain, if knocked or another problem starts it is just the old pain message that gets switched off. I do a lot of work on physical problems I have not yet been presented with anything that I wasn't able to help! Every day I am amazed by what can be done, so I can understand others being somewhat bemused!
heapsreal
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So does the therapy you do alter natural killer cell function, reduce viral load of ebv/cmv/hhv6 etc? These are the abnormalities and or biomarkers commonly found in cfs/me.
heapsreal
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Sorry I do need to add that when I talk about the unconscious I don't mean unconscious thoughts in the way you might think. I'm referring to the part of the unconscious that controls your blood circulation, your temperature, your cell renewal, the stomach, etc. Functions we have no control over! I'm sorry for any confusion that may have caused.
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It is my belief that the symptoms and biology related to having the illness are that a specific or several parts of the body no longer work they should and that the immune system overloads, causing traces of things to appear ether through lack of production or overproduction. When the body is allowed to go into recovery it will then start producing the right things. I feel that too often the mass of differing symptoms overwhelms the search for the root cause. When I first approached this it was the multitude of symptoms and effects that initially I found somewhat daunting. It was when i started looking for the similarities that the root cause came to me. Quite frankly it was my lack of a medical background that let me see past the technicalities!
pollycbr125
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So what about someone like me who has had numerous abnormal blood results and immune system results that do not fit any other illness thus I have an me/cfs diagnosis as I do not quite fit in a box ?