GSH and Methyltrap Clarification

[Chiron]

My doctor has prescribed methyl-B12 (5000mcg/mL) and methylfolate (1mg/mL) by injection. He has also prescribed 500mg glutathione/mL and 500mg/mL NAC injections. They are to be taken at staggered intervals. I ordered some AdeCo and LCARF to add.

My genetics are attached to this post. Red means mutated. Yellow means partially functioning. Green means OK, no problems. I know genetics don't tell us everything but I'm posting them with the hope that I could get some guidance from other people's experiences.

When I took the GSH and NAC, I was tired for days. I had instant diarrhea, my bowels completely emptied. I became severely depressed and lethargic, even suicidal. This is not the norm for me. It did not seem to be a herx reaction, which I am very familiar with. I thought maybe refeeding syndrome, but even that didn't explain it.

My MD says that because my detox pathways are mutated, I need GSH and NAC support. When I told him about my reaction to GSH and NAC, he said that my body was likely trying to upregulate itself and I was having refeeding syndrome. However I am concerned that those two are depleting my folate cycle through excretion and methyl trap and I'm therefore defeating the purpose of taking the folate and MeCo everytime I take the GSH and NAC.

Can you offer any guidance, based on my genetics? I have severe fatigue. No nerve damage that I'm aware of, but my immune system is severely down-regulated. I have leaky gut and inflammatory bowel that are resistant to all standard treatments. I've tried literally over 100 alternative treatments for my IBD and nothing has worked. My recent genetics testing has led me here. Their solution is to remove my bowel which I'm not open to. Besides which, if I have a folate cycle problem vis a vis GSH/NAC then surgery will just mask the symptoms until something just as serious starts up down the road.

Any insight you can offer is greatly appreciated... I am pretty much desperate at this point. In advance, I am so grateful for any time/energy you can spare on this. The medical community has not been able to really help me.

@Freddd

 

[Eastman]

@Chiron

If the GSH and NAC were given to you for detox, then I would think that diarrhea would be an expected reaction since the GSH and NAC would stimulate the liver to detoxify and eliminate the toxins via the bowel. So the treatment may be working. Your IBD (ulcerative colitis?) is a confounding factor though.

I presume you are aware that Freddd thinks GSH/NAC may deplete B12.

 

[Hip]

I've tried literally over 100 alternative treatments for my IBD and nothing has worked.

In the case of ileocecal Crohn's disease, a form of IBD, a study found enterovirus infection was involved. Enterovirus is also a common virus linked to ME/CFS, which Dr Chia treats with oxymatrine. I wonder whether oxymatrine might help both your ME/CFS and IBD, assuming that is that you have an active enterovirus infection (which is usually detected by the ARUP Lab coxsackievirus B and echovirus tests).

 

[Chiron]

@Chiron

If the GSH and NAC were given to you for detox, then I would think that diarrhea would be an expected reaction since the GSH and NAC would stimulate the liver to detoxify and eliminate the toxins via the bowel. So the treatment may be working. Your IBD (ulcerative colitis?) is a confounding factor though.

I presume you are aware that Freddd thinks GSH/NAC may deplete B12.

I've read everything by Freddd and Rich. It was extremely informative. I'm not sure where I stand right now, to be honest. I was given NAC again yesterday and I became extremely tired and disoriented immediately. It did not feel like a herx. It felt like a sudden deficiency. Actually NAC seems to make me feel a lot worse than using GSH.

I agree with you about the route toxins exits the body instant and complete evacuation of the bowels. Wouldn't it take some time for the GSH to bind to toxins in the liver, be excreted as bile, and then end up in the intestines? Surely that wouldn't happen in 20-30 minutes, as it did for me?

In the case of ileocecal Crohn's disease, a form of IBD, a study found enterovirus infection was involved. Enterovirus is also a common virus linked to ME/CFS, which Dr Chia treats with oxymatrine. I wonder whether oxymatrine might help both your ME/CFS and IBD, assuming that is that you have an active enterovirus infection (which is usually detected by the ARUP Lab coxsackievirus B and echovirus tests).

I have ulcerative colitis, not crohn's... but the theory that I have an infection is ongoing. I've never been tested for those viruses. I'm aware of oxymatrine, it comes from the Chinese herb called ku shen (sophoflora flavens). I've never tried it though for IBD.

Have you ever used ARUP lab before? Are the results reliable? Maybe I should ask my MD if she can look into it.

 

[Hip]

Are the results reliable?

The antibody micro-neutralization test by ARUP is the only reliable blood test for chronic enterovirus. Other lab tests are insensitive.

 

[Chiron]

The antibody micro-neutralization test by ARUP is the only reliable blood test for chronic enterovirus. Other lab tests are insensitive.

Thanks for this info

 

[Hip]

Cytomegalovirus is another virus linked to both ME/CFS and IBD.

The usual viral testing and treatment protocols for ME/CFS are found in this roadmap of chronic fatigue syndrome treatment.

 

[Chiron]

I have a stool test for CMV last summer, using PCR. They didn't do a blood version. Unfortunately I'm on disability now and can't afford any of these tests. A single viral assay is $400.

I suppose one thing I could do is try the different treatment supplements and see if they have an impact.

 

[Learner1]

It sounds like you're mobilizing toxins faster than you can get rid of them. Those are high doses to start on all at once.

When I've had similar symptoms in a similar situation, things my doctor advised were:

• Taking a binder, like activated charcoal and drinking plenty of water
• Increasing molybdenum and B1 to increase movement down the transsulfuration pathway (I take 1mg Thorne molybdenum and 2 Life Extensions MegaBenfotiamine usually, and double them if symptomatic)
• Taking 3-6mg of Thorne Meriva or other high bioavailability curcumin. I've also had IVs of curcumin which helped greatly. Curcumin is a broad spectrum Phase 2 detoxer, and it is anti-inflammatory, too.

You might try starting with 1/4 of the doses your doctor recommended and work up to the full dose, while adding the molybdenum and benfotiamine. If you take the charcoal, take it away from the supplements or it'll just absorb them, too.

If you're that symptomatic, its worth having a conversation with your doctor. They may want to measure you for toxicity so you know what you're dealing with or adjust your protocol. It could be you're missing cofactors, too, like B6, or something else.

I've found that its more than just genes. Its environmental factors like toxins, various stresses on your body, what you eat and drink, infections, and how fast your metabolism is that have just as great an impact on how you're using nutrients.

I do a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval every 9-12 months, which has been a great help in customizing a supplement program that works for me and adapts to changes over time. (I have similar SNPs as you, but am on a different protocol that's changed quite a bit over time.)

Best wishes...

 

[Chiron]

I'm going to look into molybdenum just in case this is related to that somehow. Thank you for the tip. I already take B1 as part of a B complex injection, which is daily. (I do a lot of vitamin injections since my bowels absorb poorly at this time.)

Would home made turmeric capsules be acceptable? I add black pepper to them as well.