Links between CFS & Aspergers?

[Johnmac]

I suspect my adult daughter & I have mild Aspergers. We're also prone to CFS. (Mine is currently in remission, thanks to B12 oils & SelfHacked.)

Is there a link between Aspergers & CFS?

Do B12 and/or mercury fit in there somewhere?

Someone on a thread here said she suspects CFS is late onset autism. That piqued my interest, as my daughter had zero autistic symptoms till about 20 - she was a blissfully well-adjusted child. Then they began to arrive, along with the fatigue (especially PEM) & a near-collapse of executive function.

I've been behaviorally a little aspy since early childhood, and the online tests rank me as low in the aspy range or 'borderline'.

Thanks to all...

 

[andyguitar]

There does seem to be an association between what I would call "New Autism" ie ADHD and CFS. My suspicion is that CFS and ADHD are both caused by an adverse drug reaction. The drugs i suspect are Serotonin Release Agents- many anti-depressants- and pain killers such as Tramadol and paracetamol. It is very strange that so many children now have Autism type symptoms and that many of the symptoms are the same as CFS. Could be that some unborn babies are getting subtle brain damage from medicines taken by their mothers. The now common use of Cal-Pol (liquid paracetamol) may also be having an effect. It causes a mild elevation of Serotonin which might cause brain inflammation.

 

[pattismith]

@Johnmac , I have always thought my CFS was related to child autism too.

Let's hope the scientific research on autism will help to solve the mystery of our disease (Naviaux research already made a link in his hypothesis)

 

[HowToEscape?]

1.

I suspect my adult daughter & I have mild Aspergers. We're also prone to CFS. (Mine is currently in remission, thanks to B12 oils & SelfHacked.)

Is there a link between Aspergers & CFS?

Do B12 and/or mercury fit in there somewhere?

Someone on a thread here said she suspects CFS is late onset autism. That piqued my interest, as my daughter had zero autistic symptoms till about 20 - she was a blissfully well-adjusted child. Then they began to arrive, along with the fatigue (especially PEM) & a near-collapse of executive function.

I've been behaviorally a little aspy since early childhood, and the online tests rank me as low in the aspy range or 'borderline'.

Thanks to all...

1. Not worth overthinking it 2 far ahead of hard evidence.
2. Autism has been theorized to stem from a condition like M.E occurring during gestation.
3. Everything else seems to stem from the need to attach one simple cause onto the complexity and uncertainty of life.
This is not a new disease, In old times the por worked until they died, the rich with M.E. were known as invalids, and the unfortunate were called possessed and then killed.

 

[anni66]

If metabolism is compromised by poor / issues with sulfation, then potentially could be some common symptoms with Autism.

 

[drob31]

If that's the case, it seems like Gc-MAF may be even more interesting since they were 'curing' autism with it.

 

[aquariusgirl]

Yup I totally think this is the path in for some folks.

They become hyper focused, rigid, OCD tendencies plus fatigue & cognitive collapse.

 

[aquariusgirl]

Professor Klimas hired /added Professor Richard Deth to her team.

I think that says it all.

 

[wastwater]

I think the link maybe anti cancer pathways and the way the immune system deals with this

Teratogens include radiation,maternal infections chemicals and drugs

 

[andyguitar]

A couple of months ago I asked 2 retired secondary school teachers if the remember any pupils with symptoms like ADHD or any pupils who missed school for long periods with symptoms like ME/CFS. One teacher is 89 other 92. Their answer was no. Ok, so my enquires are not very scientific and the sample is very small but it would be interesting if any of you could ask any elderly ex teachers the same question. Also I have spoken to 4 mothers with sons who have ADHD, about their own health. Each of the mothers had a combination of migraine and sleep disorders. This same pattern is common in people with ME and comes up sometimes with CFS. Again not very scientific as the sample is to small. What has occured to me is that, when pregnant, are sufferers of migraine advised to stop their migraine drugs in favour of something else? What is the "something else"? and what could it do to an unborn baby?

 

[anni66]

Long ago children with ADHD would probably not have been in mainstream schooling

 

[Johnmac]

Thanks for the hypothesis.

My crude understanding of neurochemistry has it that serotonin & dopamine are kind of 'opposites', so I'm wondering (possibly wild speculation) if too much drug-induced serotonin led to the decrease in dopamine that seems to be a feature of these illnesses.

The dopamine idea in general seems worth exploring.

There does seem to be an association between what I would call "New Autism" ie ADHD and CFS. My suspicion is that CFS and ADHD are both caused by an adverse drug reaction. The drugs i suspect are Serotonin Release Agents- many anti-depressants- and pain killers such as Tramadol and paracetamol. It is very strange that so many children now have Autism type symptoms and that many of the symptoms are the same as CFS. Could be that some unborn babies are getting subtle brain damage from medicines taken by their mothers. The now common use of Cal-Pol (liquid paracetamol) may also be having an effect. It causes a mild elevation of Serotonin which might cause brain inflammation.

 

[Johnmac]

I agree on 1., but I've generally operated on the principle that I could be dead before enough evidence is in. So trial-and-error is the route of choice for me - based on the best (if limited) evidence that's available.

I've cured kidney disease, ankylosing spondylitis and (in a friend) MS by that approach, so I do have some faith in it.

There are many claims by parents to have cured their kids of autism via heavy metal chelation (there's a list of testimonials on one of the Cutler sites), & indeed a study of 17,000(?) such parents found that chelation & B12 supplementation were regarded as the best therapies by more than 70% of them, from memory.

HM chelation has helped me with some things, tho I confess it doesn't seem to have shifted the dial on my mild aspieness.

1.

1. Not worth overthinking it 2 far ahead of hard evidence.
2. Autism has been theorized to stem from a condition like M.E occurring during gestation.
3. Everything else seems to stem from the need to attach one simple cause onto the complexity and uncertainty of life.
This is not a new disease, In old times the por worked until they died, the rich with M.E. were known as invalids, and the unfortunate were called possessed and then killed.

 

[Johnmac]

Long ago children with ADHD would probably not have been in mainstream schooling

Yep, that's a really hard one to gauge at this distance.

I don't recall any families in the 1950s/1960s neighbourhood of my childhood bringing autistic kids into the world. I do recall a few who were 'mentally retarded', 'mongoloid', etc.

On the other hand I reckon I was a somewhat aspie kid (& score as mildly aspie on today's tests) : and I was just regarded as a pain in the arse. I gravitated to kids who were like me (asocial, refractory, temper-prone) - so there must have been a few of us.

 

[andyguitar]

It's true to say that in the past children with autism would most likley have been in 'special schools' something that is still true today. But ADHD is different from autism-at least the cases i know about. If you look in medical books from say the 70s-80s the kind of symptoms listed for ADHD dont exist. Neither does ADHD itself. Might be different in the USA. As for ME having always been around.... yep i agree that ME, as in the outbreak at the Royal Free Hospital London in the 50s, is not new. CFS is not new either. But it's not that old. First accounts I have been able to find of that group of symptoms appearing in a substantial number of people is around 1870s. Not so common in the UK as USA. In UK it had the nickname "Americanitis". At that time popular remedies for all ills were 'Patent Medicines'. No prescription was needed to buy these which were mixtures of opium, cannabis and alcohol. Cocaine went into the mix towards the end of that century. Another popular treament was liquid paraffin as a laxative. Any thought as to what all that would do to people? It was partly as a result of the damage being done to people using these medicines that led to the founding of the FDA. In the UK it led to the Medicines Act. History lesson over. So in a nutshell what I am saying is that 'Americanitis' and CFS are the same thing and are both caused by adverse drug reaction.

 

[HowToEscape?]

I agree on 1., but I've generally operated on the principle that I could be dead before enough evidence is in. So trial-and-error is the route of choice for me - based on the best (if limited) evidence that's available.

I've cured kidney disease, ankylosing spondylitis and (in a friend) MS by that approach, so I do have some faith in it.

There are many claims by parents to have cured their kids of autism via heavy metal chelation (there's a list of testimonials on one of the Cutler sites), & indeed a study of 17,000(?) such parents found that chelation & B12 supplementation were regarded as the best therapies by more than 70% of them, from memory.

HM chelation has helped me with some things, tho I confess it doesn't seem to have shifted the dial on my mild aspieness.

Childhood autism is often a developmental delay not a stasis. Those testimonials of the form “I did this and the kid got better” could just as well mean “I give myself credit for something that would’ve happened Without throwing a bunch of drugs into my kid”. I would want to be sure that the child actually has a heavy metal problem, which is quite unusual these days. If they are not eating decades old paint playing in a superfund site, there are not too many ways they can get heavy metal toxicity. You could do it by eating canned tuna every single day, or hanging out all day at an indoor gun range, do you know anyone who actually does that?

There are alternative practitioners who specialize in chelation may have ‘special’ tests that always come up positive. They will of course say that all of the standard tests are no good and the only real truth is a handful of people who they refer you to. Hmmmm.

Chelation is risky, it can give heavy metals in bones a second shot at settling into organs were they would do more damage. of course if you didn’t really have a significant amount of toxic metals then you’ve only got the toxicity from the chelation to worry about.

btw, congrats on your experiments that did work out. It’s quite difficult to do well!

 

[Johnmac]

Childhood autism is often a developmental delay not a stasis. Those testimonials of the form “I did this and the kid got better” could just as well mean “I give myself credit for something that would’ve happened Without throwing a bunch of drugs into my kid”.

Yep, that's possible. Tho there are many non-drug remedies in the survey which did not fare nearly so well as chelation & B12.

I would want to be sure that the child actually has a heavy metal problem, which is quite unusual these days. If they are not eating decades old paint playing in a superfund site, there are not too many ways they can get heavy metal toxicity. You could do it by eating canned tuna every single day, or hanging out all day at an indoor gun range, do you know anyone who actually does that?

Not offhand, but a lot of dentists still use amalgam fillings; & some vaccines still have thimerosal.

There are alternative practitioners who specialize in chelation may have ‘special’ tests that always come up positive. They will of course say that all of the standard tests are no good and the only real truth is a handful of people who they refer you to. Hmmmm.

Yes, I agree the whole testing thing is opaque - I don't understand it at all.

Chelation is risky, it can give heavy metals in bones a second shot at settling into organs were they would do more damage. of course if you didn’t really have a significant amount of toxic metals then you’ve only got the toxicity from the chelation to worry about.

It's true there are some bad reactions, but most people I know have improved from chelation, as have I. Most who don't are in the 'no effect' category. The Cutler method seems to guard against nett redistribution to organs. I.e. it's true some Hg goes in, but more comes out.

I take DMSA for half a day after I finish the organ-chelating ALA round, to clear Hg from my bloodstream so it doesn't settle in organs.

btw, congrats on your experiments that did work out. It’s quite difficult to do well!

Thanks, they were all 2-3-year projects. I don't know how to prevent getting new illnesses (I suspect being a little aspie predisposes me to illness, from the strain it places on the nervous system), but I do feel confident I can cure them when they arrive.

 

[Mithriel]

When my grandson was diagnosed with autism and we read up about it, it explained the ways in which my lovely mother in law was "strange".

The very affected kids with autism would have been in special schooling or locked away in institutions, but life was much more ordered in those days (the streets emptied of kids at tea time) and the rigid routines would have helped people with autism.

My husbands aunt was what was called "simple" but she worked from 14 to 60 in a factory and was something of a pet to people. Her level of disability would not cope with the world of computers and smart phones.

I believe that many people cope in life despite their autism unless there is another problem that pushes them over the edge. ME could be one of them, but there is far too much quackery about autism, often preying on desperate parents.

 

[andyguitar]

Agree with a lot of this. Yep for years and years parents got the blame. Usually the mother accused of being "cold". One thing that has not helped in modern times is the bonkers idea that if you do not fit "the norm" there is something wrong. You have a disorder or illness. You need treatment. Wish the notion of live and let live would become popular.

 

[HowToEscape?]

A couple of months ago I asked 2 retired secondary school teachers if the remember any pupils with symptoms like ADHD or any pupils who missed school for long periods with symptoms like ME/CFS. One teacher is 89 other 92. Their answer was no. Ok, so my enquires are not very scientific and the sample is very small but it would be interesting if any of you could ask any elderly ex teachers the same question.
.…

Back then there was another school that you didn’t see. That was the institution where they put all of the kids who were considered hopeless cases, such as the autistic the retarded etc. etc. they were all lumped in as severe birth defects and they went to an institution. They were never brought into regular school nor were they taught by regular teachers.