progesterone cream/gel not as good as pills?

[Fred Smith]

so I came across this article : https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/537795

it says progesterone cream/gel/oil etc doesent increase bone mass or keep your bones healthy which progesterone should do but since its topical according to the article it wont help.. but the pills do.

I also came across this http://www.virginiahopkinstestkits.com/progesterone_cream_or_pill.html

from this article a quote ´´Many doctors have found that a progesterone pill can be more effective than the cream for treating insomnia and catamenial epilepsy (seizures related to the menstrual cycle). This is because the metabolite allopregnanolone, created in large amounts when progesterone is processed in the liver, stimulates GABA receptors in the brain, which promotes relaxation and helps balance the nervous system.´´

So that means progesterone cream is not as good in activating the GABA receptors as the pills are?

This makes me wonder what else benefit are we not getting by taking topical progesterone... is there any truth to the two articles I linked ?


check these links out

https://clearwoman.com/natural-progesterone/oral-vs-topical-vs-vaginal-vs-rectal/

https://bioidenticalhormoneexperts.com/progesterone-cream-vs-capsule-which-is-right-for-me/

 

[helios]

i thought hormones get degraded by stomach acid. i wonder why that is not the case with progesterone pills.

I have taken progesterone cream, for the boost in mental well being and libido. I take the cream form as its cheaper than a compounded pill/cream + I get it without a prescription. I would have liked to think I was getting the bone building effects, but it seems not.
The way the supplements industry works it would not surprise me the least if the manufacturers of progesterone cream where quoting the benefits of oral progesterone or the body's natural progesterone, and just happily assuming the same applied to the topical form or they might be aware but word their marketing so they highlight the benefits of progesterone without claiming their product actually delivers on those benefits.

 

[Fred Smith]

i thought hormones get degraded by stomach acid. i wonder why that is not the case with progesterone pills.

I have taken progesterone cream, for the boost in mental well being and libido. I take the cream form as its cheaper than a compounded pill/cream + I get it without a prescription. I would have liked to think I was getting the bone building effects, but it seems not.
The way the supplements industry works it would not surprise me the least if the manufacturers of progesterone cream where quoting the benefits of oral progesterone or the body's natural progesterone, and just happily assuming the same applied to the topical form or they might be aware but word their marketing so they highlight the benefits of progesterone without claiming their product actually delivers on those benefits.

I thought at first it doesent matter how you take the progesterone. I assumed progesterone is progesterone and once it is inside your body it will work the same no matter how you take it... I will test this out .. I have very low progesterone and my bones are VERY weak. I will order some progesterone cream and see if it actually heals my bones back to normal..

 

[helios]

it will be interesting to see if your bone scan improves, though I am not sure how long you need to give any progesterone to work, before it makes a noticeable difference. How long are you going to give it and how much progesterone will you take daily via the cream...do you know yet?

when it comes to improving your bone density - i recommend taking other supplements like vitamin D, vitamin K, boron, silica, magnesium, calcium, even strontium, though if you do that you wont be able to isolate the benefit, if any to attribute to the progesterone.

 

[sb4]

Could it be that they where applying the cream to skin tha was exposed to sun/windows? UV light deactivates sex steroid hormones in the skin and blood...

 

[Fred Smith]

Could it be that they where applying the cream to skin tha was exposed to sun/windows? UV light deactivates sex steroid hormones in the skin and blood...

no idea but i think cream gets absorbed very quickly ... dont know if it is on the skin long enough for the sun to do anything.

 

[Fred Smith]

it will be interesting to see if your bone scan improves, though I am not sure how long you need to give any progesterone to work, before it makes a noticeable difference. How long are you going to give it and how much progesterone will you take daily via the cream...do you know yet?

when it comes to improving your bone density - i recommend taking other supplements like vitamin D, vitamin K, boron, silica, magnesium, calcium, even strontium, though if you do that you wont be able to isolate the benefit, if any to attribute to the progesterone.

will give it a few months. Will start with a big loading dose like 100mg first week then go down to like 40mg after.

 

[sb4]

no idea but i think cream gets absorbed very quickly ... dont know if it is on the skin long enough for the sun do to anything.

Perhaps timing is important also. Sex steroid hormones are released at sun rise (no UV) and then an hour or so later uv appears and deactivates them.

So applying on covered skin early morning / indoors is best?

 

[Paralee]

I loved the progesterone cream. 2 weeks of energy and bliss. I've also heard that if you put it on the top part of your body it does one thing and on the bottom part it does something else. I wish I could remember what.
But then it quit the good feeling and energy I was having. I found an explanation the other day that that's pretty normal for the first week or two because at first it has an estrogenic effect emotion wise. ???? I'm confused.

And I thought it was the estrogen that helped the bones?

 

[Fred Smith]

I loved the progesterone cream. 2 weeks of energy and bliss. I've also heard that if you put it on the top part of your body it does one thing and on the bottom part it does something else. I wish I could remember what.
But then it quit the good feeling and energy I was having. I found an explanation the other day that that's pretty normal for the first week or two because at first it has an estrogenic effect emotion wise. ???? I'm confused.

And I thought it was the estrogen that helped the bones?

im not a doctor but I dont think it matters were you put the progesterone cream as long as its in an area that absorbs it well, palms, wrists, inner arms etc. But I think it would be good to switch were you put the cream like today you might put the cream on your left wrist .. tommorow maybe your right wrist or somewhere else just not on the same spot everyday .

 

[Fred Smith]

@Paralee
estrogen slows down the breakdown of bones.

progesterone is a bone building substance.

watch this video at the 10:18 mark

 

[Paralee]

Thanks @farshad, I will watch it and research too when I can stay up for awhile. I'm pretty sure my dopamine is high. But where can you get histamines? I only see antihistimines for sale.

 

[Fred Smith]

Thanks @farshad, I will watch it and research too when I can stay up for awhile. I'm pretty sure my dopamine is high. But where can you get histamines? I only see antihistimines for sale.

I think L-histidine
But if you wanna just lower dopamine there are many other supplements that are better for that if you do a quick google search. 5-htp for example increases serotonin and if you increase serotonin your dopamine decreases. You can also combine it with l-tryptophan another serotonin precursor to really lower dopamine and increase serotonin if you want to.

 

[Fred Smith]

Even though the progesterone cream was well absorbed, it did not prevent bone loss or increase bone mass in postmenopausal women, Pearson and colleagues concluded. She suggested that perhaps a different dose or formulation or delivery system would be effective, noting that animal studies have shown that progesterone stimulates bone formation.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/537795

 

[Paralee]

Even though the progesterone cream was well absorbed, it did not prevent bone loss or increase bone mass in postmenopausal women, Pearson and colleagues concluded. She suggested that perhaps a different dose or formulation or delivery system would be effective, noting that animal studies have shown that progesterone stimulates bone formation.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/537795

Thanks @farshad , I will look into this. About 3 yrs ago my bones had improved back to a younger woman's (I had osteoporosis until my parathyroid problem was fixed). Guess I need another bone test. I haven't been taking progesterone but that little trial I did the cream was so easy and I really felt it. More research coming. Ugh!

 

[Paralee]

I think L-histidine
But if you wanna just lower dopamine there are many other supplements that are better for that if you do a quick google search. 5-htp for example increases serotonin and if you increase serotonin your dopamine decreases. You can also combine it with l-tryptophan another serotonin precursor to really lower dopamine and increase serotonin if you want to.

@farshad , I forgot to say I can't take tryptophan or melatonin because of a detox variant. Really puts me in a jam. Since being floxed with Cipro made things worse, I can't take very many supplements without being in la la land.
Thanks for your help.

Edit: I think I remember why it mattered if you put it on the upper part of the body or lower, it had something to do with test results?

 

[Fred Smith]

progesterone cream seems to helps bones my bones feel a lot stronger after only 1 day.

 

[Fred Smith]

Progesterone is considered our ‘calming, soothing’ hormone and helps us to sleep because it makes a metabolite (or by-product) called allopregnanolone which interacts with GABAa receptor in the brain. GABA is a calming neurotransmitter. Please note that this benefit is derived from using oral progesterone, not progesterone cream, and may be dependent on what type of metabolites (also called by-products) that your body makes from progesterone.

According to Carrie Jones, MPH, ND, medical director of Precision Analytical Lab, oral and sublingual progesterone explodes into a ton of metabolites in the body and it’s the alpha metabolites that helps to create the sedative like effect of progesterone. Transdermal (cream) progesterone does not create the metabolites that are helpful for sleep.

Jones goes on to say that if your body prefers the alpha-pregnanediol urine metabolite, you are likely going to benefit from the sedative effects of taking progesterone in the evening to help with sleep. If your body prefers the beta-pregnanediol urine metabolite pathway, you are less likely to benefit from oral progesetrone’s well known effects on sleep.



https://www.paleofx.com/progesterone-key-better-sleep/

hm. Does that mean when you take cream your body decides how much allpregnanolone it will make but when you take ORALLY a lot of it is converted to allpregnanolone? Because I remember when I took progesterone orally I really noticed the calming effect. the cream yes it has helped me calm down but not as much as when I took orally but my cream dosage is also a lot lower, when I took it orally the dosage was pretty high. But cream does help with my sleep definatly.. So IDK what to think. Maybe I need to up my dosage from 20mg cream or maybe the cream progesterone hasnt kicked in fully yet? im 3 days in.




(edit) found another article so I was right in that when you take it orally more is converted to allpregnanolone than cream does.


Women using an oral progesterone may notice a sedative effect, and doctors usually recommend that the oral form is taken at bedtime (actually, it is often a welcome “side effect” that helps counteract the sleeplessness of perimenopause!) Basically, there is a large quantity of metabolites produced in the liver after oral progesterone is absorbed by the intestines. These metabolites have known sedative and hypnotic effects.

On the other hand, women using progesterone cream do not produce metabolites in such large quantities because the progesterone is absorbed through the skin and bypasses the liver metabolism. However, as stated before, some women may experience progesterone’s calming effect after using it in cream form.


This makes me wonder are we losing any benefits by using cream?... since it doesent go trough the liver..

 

[Paralee]

@farshad , I don't know what to think, I've only done the cream to bring down my cortisol, and that just took a couple of weeks, I think, and a pharmacist looked at the container for me and figured that I was getting about 44 mg a day. She said that was kind of low. The progesterone gave me energy and a really good mood before it quit, but I've read (here?) that for the first week or two it can be like that because it mimics estrogen somewhat. I don't really understand why. (I tried the cream about three yrs. ago and just lately wondered what the dose was)

The last week of it (maybe I used it three weeks, not sure) I started getting sleepy on it so the doc said do it all at night. Maybe some of us are this way and some other ways? I quit taking it thinking it stopped helping but maybe I should have asked the doc if I needed to up the dose. I really don't know now.

And does our liver need to process it really? If so we need to take the pills, I guess. If not, why do we need to put an additional load on our liver? This is my new concern besides all my others, what needs to go through the liver and what doesn't?

 

[Fred Smith]

Im on day 4 progesterone and I noticed my puffy face is gone its more chiseled. IM assuming that means my cortisol is being reduced since cortisol in high amounts cause puffy face..

I cant wait to see how I feel in like 2 weeks or something... (im taking around 30mg daily)

Yeah apparantly the first weeks when you take progesterone cream your estrogen receptors wake up or something and you are supposed to feel worse in the beginning not better.

I read when you take progesterone orally it converts to 30 if not more different metabolites and one of them is allpregnanolone which is supposed to make you relaxed.

What im wondering what other metabolites are being made what are the other 29?
But progesterone pills cause lots of side effects so I wouldnt touch them. But im sure progesterone creams are effective or dr john lee (the guy who did a lot of research on progesterone cream) would have said something. Maybe he did but I havent seen it.

Anyway I would just stick with progesterone cream.. The only thing I have found is you need a higher dose of cream to get the sleepy effect than you would if you took it orally.
The cream not doing anything for bones is wrong ,im proof of it. My teeth are stronger, wrists stronger.. and im just few days in.
My skin looks better .. mood better.. energy inrease.. my body temperature higher my hands and feet not as cold anymore, SLEEP oh my god my sleep is soo good I dont wake up feeling like a truck hit me anymore , my hair growing , My knuckle the bone was fractured and it hadnt been healing and it happend like 4-5 months ago and 4 days in on progesterone and its already better .. See how powerful progesterone is .. my thinking is better,nails stronger, headache almost gone to name a few ...