Making yourself sick to feel better?

[drob31]

I've noticed some people feel better when they are sick. I've experienced this when getting a cold, and feeling normal with the cold.

Has anyone ever experimented with a controlled way of making yourself sick? Like continuously re-infecting yourself with the same cold virus every few months. I realize you'd have developed immunity, but maybe it would trigger enough of a response to have the same effect.

Thoughts?

 

[lauluce]

I find your idea very interesting... what about trying to induce a fever? I haven't had a fever since I got ill 13 years ago, not a single one. I have got colds, flu, GI infections, with all the normal symptoms, except fever. It's like if I somewhat lost my capacity to have a fever when I acquired ME/CFS

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Yes I feel better while having an infection. The problem is: After the last cold I had a massive crash...

 

[drob31]

But what if you could culture your cold, like in a petri dish, and keep reinfecting yourself.

 

[ljimbo423]

But what if you could culture your cold, like in a petri dish, and keep reinfecting yourself.

I heard you can never catch the same cold virus twice because our immune system recognizes it after the fist infection and will not allow it to re-infect someone.

Flu viruses mutate every year that's why a new flu shot is needed every year. maybe you could do it with a flu virus if you could keep them alive long enough to mutate. Then you could re-infect yourself.

Jim

 

[Prefect]

I've often thought of this myself. I have a 3 year old at daycare who catches a new cold a week, but no luck there, I can't seem to catch them from him. In fact during bad years of this condition I simply don't catch colds, I only seem to during "remission".

I've also found having a cold also improves my anxiety/panic disorder and have talked to many people who suffer only from mental illness (rather than us who have it alongside some mystery illness such as POTS, CFS, etc) who've also said they feel better when they have a cold.

The same people also say they feel better at the end of the night, just before bedtime. These two commonalities have me truly convinced CFS is not from a chronic infection of some kind, but rather a psychoneuroimmunological dysfunction triggered by original causes that are no longer relevant (stress, infection, etc) during the chronic phase of the illness.

Because when we have an infection, say a cold, when do we feel the worst? Night time. And when do we feel a little better and think we can go to work, but realize by noon we should have stayed home. Morning time. This dynamic is the complete opposite of CFS; most sufferers feel the worst in the morning.

This is why I think the so called experts need to stop looking for an infectious origin and focus on psychoneurophamalogical solutions. Jay Goldstein was really onto something, I wish he was still around.

 

[Brayden]

I've noticed some people feel better when they are sick. I've experienced this when getting a cold, and feeling normal with the cold.

Has anyone ever experimented with a controlled way of making yourself sick? Like continuously re-infecting yourself with the same cold virus every few months. I realize you'd have developed immunity, but maybe it would trigger enough of a response to have the same effect.

Thoughts?

That's interesting. I have never experienced it but i think, disease sometime occurs only for dullness. if you actively work on ,you may be not noticed your sickness for a while. it could be happen with these guy too

 

[drob31]

@Hip

 

[Wayne]

These two commonalities have me truly convinced CFS is not from a chronic infection of some kind, but rather a psychoneuroimmunological dysfunction triggered by original causes that are no longer relevant (stress, infection, etc) during the chronic phase of the illness.

This seems to fit in with my own theory. I've come to believe there are a fairly large number of factors involved in anyone's ME/CFS. One particular factor I feel is very common amongst all of us, is that we're dealing with PTSD of the immune system.​

 

[Wayne]

I've noticed some people feel better when they are sick. I've experienced this when getting a cold, and feeling normal with the cold.

Hi Drob,

I very rarely get a cold or flu, but just a couple weeks ago, I came down with a sore throat that was so severe, it reminded me of having gotten strep throat when I was in grade school. I could barely swallow it was so sore, and it made me pretty miserable.

Interestingly, while dealing with it for 3-4 days, I actually felt better than normal. It felt that my immune system had (at least temporarily) been able to recognize a pathogen in my system, and had been able to meet the challenge. Put another way, it felt like my body was able to draw on a latent vitality in my system to meet the challenge at hand with a healthy immune response.​

 

[drob31]

The question is;

Is the reason you feel better because it ramps up your immune system which somehow corrects the neuro-endo immune axis, regulating everything such as hormones and neurotransmitters to their proper levels, or,

Is it ramping up your immune system which happens to fight the underlying infection causing symptoms, or

Is it taking focus away from an autoimmune attack your body is undergoing, temporarily relieving symptoms of autoimmunity.....

 

[Philipp]

I've also found having a cold also improves my anxiety/panic disorder and have talked to many people [...] who've also said they feel better when they have a cold.

The same people also say they feel better at the end of the night, just before bedtime.

Thanks for making this connection! This is completely true for me as well.

On the topic at hand, I did actually gamble with this concept a few times when close friends were a bit flue-y and I would respond 'cool, wanna hang out?'

The problem with this seems to be that this was good for social reasons (them being almost as slow as myself for once and having company that they would normally not have when sick sort of works out for both parties), but it rarely worked for the 'intended' side-purpose.


This strategy has two rather big caveats, however: Having a cold still sucks, even if it is a lot better than having a bad ME day, and how much my ME symptoms recede seems to be proportional to how bad the cold was. There usually is a transitory period at the end of 1-2 days when the cold is almost gone and the ME is still suppressed, so that is a bonus, but since it is unknown beforehand when this will be (colds last from a few days to 2-3 weeks after all) the utility of those days is a bit self-limiting. It is wasted time for trying ME-treatments as well, so I think of this as my yearly vacation.

The second and way bigger issue (why I more or less stopped gambling here) with this is that we actually do not know if it doesn't have longer lasting side effects. Like when you crash and lose function that you usually regain permanently or at least semi-permanently (i.e. ability to read, stand up etc). I have not heard from a single case of a permanent remission after infection, but who is to say that this does not add to the damage we accumulate over time?

 

[Jesse2233]

This is a fascinating discussion. It reminds me of the theory behind photopheresis: that is killing white blood cells and reintroducing them into the body causing one's immune system to shift focus (and thereby restoring normal immune function).

I believe there is also another type of treatment (whose name escapes me) that involves purposefully injecting bacteria into the body to create a similar "immune distraction"

 

[Hip]

I've noticed some people feel better when they are sick. I've experienced this when getting a cold, and feeling normal with the cold.

This may be to due with the fever effect, which is where children with autism, and also those with ADHD, will find their condition significantly improves when they get a cold.

 

[RYO]

This is a fascinating discussion. It reminds me of the theory behind photopheresis: that is killing white blood cells and reintroducing them into the body causing one's immune system to shift focus (and thereby restoring normal immune function).

I believe there is also another type of treatment (whose name escapes me) that involves purposefully injecting bacteria into the body to create a similar "immune distraction"

I think you may be referring to Coley's toxin. I met a woman who had ME/CFS for 7 years then got better. Coincidentally, she came down with meningitis the year before she started feeling better.

I have heard of some "alternative" cancer centers mention Coley's toxin as a treatment option.

It sounds interesting....

 

[RYO]

Has anyone on PR tried or know of anyone that has tried Coley's toxin?

 

[andyguitar]

It is a least possible that whats going on is a result of the infectious agent creating a chemical ie neurotransmitter that has a theraputic effect. Interesting to note that probiotics help some but make others worse. As they produce some pretty interesting chemicals- including neurotransmitters- this may be a connection worth having a look at.

 

[E.man]

If I got any more sick I'd need a carer. Not happening at the moment.
Have already been to hospital this week.