aches, pain in teeth and jaw bone

[perchance dreamer]

I tried a dental fitted mouth guard, protected my toes more than my teeth as thats where id find it after a nights sleep when it would fall out.

The last month ive been using k2 mk4. So you think it helps build teeth back some??

@heapsreal, yes, in my case, I do think the Thorne k2 has helped my teeth build back up some, but it's been slowly over time I've noticed that effect.

That's surprising about your mouth guard. The dentist should look at the fit. It took several sessions with the dentist before mine got fitted properly.

 

[fireflymd]

Interesting as I have this going on right now, but I have bartonella, not Lyme? It always starts in my right tonsil, then goes into my face, cheek bones, muscles, ear, and eye socket always on the right side only. My Dr says it isn't a sinus infection as my sinuses aren't congested so won't treat anything, and it isn't dental. I can barely eat as my teeth hurt so bad.

grumble grumble

What about seeing a neurologist or getting an MRI? Your pain is so extensive—I only have pain in the bone under one tooth.

 

[MeSci]

@heapsreal, yes, in my case, I do think the Thorne k2 has helped my teeth build back up some, but it's been slowly over time I've noticed that effect.

I wonder whether that is what I need, rather than the 75 micrograms K2 MK-7 that I tried, which appeared to have negative effects. I'm very hesitant to try any Vitamin K since those. I only took one! It's not the first time I've abandoned a supplement due to initial adverse effects. (I'm much too foggy to take anything in or retain anything at present.)

 

[Strawberry]

What about seeing a neurologist or getting an MRI? Your pain is so extensive—I only have pain in the bone under one tooth.

My Dr suggested an endocrinologist and sinus xray, but since he doesn't know the cause we didn't do anything today.

 

[CCC]

Interesting as I have this going on right now, but I have bartonella, not Lyme? It always starts in my right tonsil, then goes into my face, cheek bones, muscles, ear, and eye socket always on the right side only. My Dr says it isn't a sinus infection as my sinuses aren't congested so won't treat anything, and it isn't dental. I can barely eat as my teeth hurt so bad.

@Strawberry You might be interested to hear that I'm treating my son for Bartonella - using the Buhner herbs. I always try the non-prescription things I give my son (gives reassurance), and found that these herbs also reduced similar symptoms to those you describe (but starting in a different place).

 

[Strawberry]

@Strawberry You might be interested to hear that I'm treating my son for Bartonella - using the Buhner herbs. I always try the non-prescription things I give my son (gives reassurance), and found that these herbs also reduced similar symptoms to those you describe (but starting in a different place).

Interesting! My allergy dr couldn't figure anything out, and said it might be a virus reactivating. What are Buhner herbs?

 

[Blue Jay]

I have had this for almost 14 years, in the bone of my jaw beneath a root canal (that was done on a healthy tooth in error).

I finally had that root canal extracted and an implant put in, but over time the aching, pulling sensation in the bone recurred.

No dentist or oral surgeon could find any problem, until I saw a specialist dentist who told me this was likely due to Lyme!

He said the Borrelia spirochete has a predilection for these nerves and was irritating the nerve that innervates the region of either the maxilla (where the upper teeth are situated) or the mandible (jaw bone) and that this is why the pain sensation is not constant—he said it is intermittent because the spirochete is irritating the nerve intermittently.

He said if it was a typical bacterial infection in the actual tooth or bone that the pain would be constant.

I thought this was a fascinating explanation for this unexplained pain that I’ve had on and off for years—and it coincided with the onset of my fatigue. (Which I thought was due to the root canal.)

I still have intermittent pain despite treating for Lyme but another Lyme patient (who had a positive Plasmid PCR for Borrelia through IGeneX) has noted resolution of this symptom with treatment.

It’s a fascinating possibility.

This is indeed fascinating. I'm suffering at the moment. My problem started about 3 years ago and I've been through all the dentist visits etc. to be told the teeth are all fine. Lyme has been suspected but tests proved negative. I still think it's a possibility.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

My problem started about 3 years ago and I've been through all the dentist visits etc. to be told the teeth are all fine.

If I had chased all the tooth pain I experience, there would be no teeth left. Swelling of the tissue and pulp where my teeth reside has been a major symptom for years now, it subsides in the morning and arrives later in the day when I am "now yin deficient". Some chinese herbs I use have helped with this symptom, and the LDN. Its not as intense as it was a few years ago.

A couple of teeth I would have removed, are in fact still there and aren't bothering me as much now, thank you very much.

Angiodema is a condition in which the tissue inflames. So between collagen breakdown and this inflamation, mouth misery is common here.

My attempts to explain this to the dental implant surgeon failed. He "did not believe me". Really, Sir? I did not return for the procedure. But his office did send me a Birthday Greeting. The only one I received.

My mouth swells so much that at times my tongue doesn't fit inside it. Horns form on the sides of my tongue. A similar feeling across a band in my mouth makes TWO TEETH feel that they are going to pop out of my mouth, they are so squeezed. The teeth don't align, when in this condition either.

Oh, but thats right, I must just be depressed, or making this up for entertainment value.

 

[Blue Jay]

If I had chased all the tooth pain I experience, there would be no teeth left. Swelling of the tissue and pulp where my teeth reside has been a major symptom for years now, it subsides in the morning and arrives later in the day when I am "now yin deficient". Some chinese herbs I use have helped with this symptom, and the LDN. Its not as intense as it was a few years ago.

A couple of teeth I would have removed, are in fact still there and aren't bothering me as much now, thank you very much.

Angiodema is a condition in which the tissue inflames. So between collagen breakdown and this inflamation, mouth misery is common here.

My attempts to explain this to the dental implant surgeon failed. He "did not believe me". Really, Sir? I did not return for the procedure. But his office did send me a Birthday Greeting. The only one I received.

My mouth swells so much that at times my tongue doesn't fit inside it. Horns form on the sides of my tongue. A similar feeling across a band in my mouth makes TWO TEETH feel that they are going to pop out of my mouth, they are so squeezed. The teeth don't align, when in this condition either.

Oh, but thats right, I must just be depressed, or making this up for entertainment value.

That is terrible to have to put up with, RM, and makes me feel a wimp.

I've also been made to feel unbelieved but in such a polite way that I don't know how to respond. My dentist is quite young and has probably never even had a 'normal' toothache. The speciallist was quite dismissive and hadn't heard of ME anyway.

I hadn't heard of angiodema so will try to learn more about it. Have you tried any conventional treatment and, if so, did it have any effect because I'm not sure if what I'm on is working or not? I feel so ill when the pain comes that I'm forced to rest even more than I already have to because of ME. So, if the pain subsides is it because I'm resting more.

Thanks for responding and I do hope you're in a reasonably good way at the moment.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

That is terrible to have to put up with, RM, and makes me feel a wimp.

Well at the moment I'm appreciating that this symptom is not as bad as it was in the past.

Oddly: I'm chewing more and the teeth that felt weak seem: less so.

I suspect this are mast cell driven: inflammation. And its why I think my lower brain stem, the neighbor, is also swollen. I have not successfully gotten help for that aspect yet. I am going to try to investigate MCAS when I get back from this trip I am on.

The tongue also corresponds with body systems, see chinese medicine. So my swollen tongue is: a long list of messages.

I also have alot of throat issues....very hoarse, gets very sore if I talk much. I hope they figure out this Eppstein Barr mess, someday. Soon.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Lyme has been suspected but tests proved negative. I still think it's a possibility.

This possibility is certainly fascinating. Thought I would mention that my two lower front teeth: died....during some post-pregnancy physical collapse...about six weeks after I had my daughter. The doctor and dentist could not explain what happened, but the root nerves were killed. My theory: SHINGLES.

So I could believe one of our visiting creatures has parked in some nerve, and causes irritation and pain.

I don't test positive for lyme, either....but I've been bitten by ticks so many times, owned dogs, live in nature etc.

Once I did an antibiotic treatment for a tick bite.....it got on my neck and I didn't know it for like 5 hours. That same area, now, has swollen lymph nodes parked there.

 

[Blue Jay]

It's a very long time ago now but I was in a state of collapse after the birth of my son (a botched breech) and was never told, despite my many questions, just what was causing my symptoms of extreme pain.

I had a strange insect bite years ago. There was no tic visible but I had to have quite a chunk of my calf muscle dug out and was off my legs for three weeks.

Going back further, I had a strange virus infection which laid me low for weeks.

These are just a few things I think could be relevant to how things are for me nowadays with the ME.

It seems a lot of us have battled on through a multitude of strange and unexplained injuries and events.

 

[Strawberry]

Interesting as I have this going on right now, but I have bartonella, not Lyme? It always starts in my right tonsil, then goes into my face, cheek bones, muscles, ear, and eye socket always on the right side only. My Dr says it isn't a sinus infection as my sinuses aren't congested so won't treat anything, and it isn't dental. I can barely eat as my teeth hurt so bad.

grumble grumble

Quoting my own post of Oct 30, 2017. I have this "non infection" pain again. Started yesterday in my tonsil and cheek bone (right side only - and always right side) and today is tooth pain, eye socket and temple pain also.

Doctor's don't seem to know what this is, and I quit going to my old doctor as he never would do anything about it. A few people here suggested spirochete or virus reactivation. Is there a way of finding out if this is viral or spirochete? I do have my annual appointment with my ENT on Tuesday, so hopefully he can give me a recommendation for a new doctor that would be willing to investigate.

I'm getting desperate to find out what this is.

 

[Learner1]

Your naturopathic doctor may be able to help. There is also a biologic dentist near Northgate that might be helpful. I have a froend, who has been mysteriously ill for years who sees him, and they found 4 cavitation (with anaerobic bacterial infections) from wisdom teeth extraction 35 years ago. Three of them cleaned out just fine, but the fourth has caused necrosis of the jaw bone. This can be life threatening, so options to deal with it are being investigated.

 

[Strawberry]

Thanks Learner1, I'm fairly south of Seattle so it takes me well over an hour to get to Northgate, so way too far for me to drive. My dentist also checked it out a few times and said it definitely is not a dental issue. My regular doctor says it isn't a sinus infection because of minimal mucus, so maybe nerve pain? My ENT did say two years ago this could be viral reactivation.

Hmm, I haven't seen my naturopathic doctor in several years, I wonder if I should go back there. They seemed fairly perplexed at my health issues though, I never was too impressed with Tahoma Clinic.

I just need to move north! All the good doctors are up there! Good to hear from you, I hope you are still improving!

 

[Learner1]

Thanks, yes, I'm still improving.

My dentist also checked it out a few times and said it definitely is not a dental issue. My regular doctor says it isn't a sinus infection because of minimal mucus, so maybe nerve pain? My ENT did say two years ago this could be viral reactivation.

This problem won't show up on a normal dental X-ray. This patient's regular dentist had missed it. It takes a special panoramic view, looking at the bone below the teeth. Another patient here was surprised to find he has an infected nerve right next to his jaw which is being treated - described symptoms like yours. Worth investigating further...

Hmm, I haven't seen my naturopathic doctor in several years, I wonder if I should go back there.

Not keen on the Tahoma Clinic. But I got no help from NDs around Seattle - much better help from NDs up on those topics.

 

[Strawberry]

Thanks, yes, I'm still improving.


This problem won't show up on a normal dental X-ray. This patient's regular dentist had missed it. It takes a special panoramic view, looking at the bone below the teeth. Another patient here was surprised to find he has an infected nerve right next to his jaw which is being treated - described symptoms like yours. Worth investigating further...


Not keen on the Tahoma Clinic. But I got no help from NDs around Seattle - much better help from NDs up on those topics.

Did your friends pain come and go? Or did a year or two pass in between? I may have had one more incident in the last two years but it’s possible that was my last incident.. maybe I need to take a few days off and go north...

 

[Learner1]

It has not been there all the time. She didn't think it was a problem. She has mainly lacked energy and been sick and had issues with detoxing. But she and her doctor think this is finally the sneaky root of her issues.

 

[Ian]

In the years leading up to my ME, I was getting a lot of mild symptoms of ME but didn't realize it then.

One of them was ache, pain and a sore twinge in the jaw bone. I used to think it was severe toothache and would take myself off to the dentist and plead with him to pull them out. I remember him saying to me " I can't see anything wrong with those teeth" but I was determined to get them out, there was just to much aching and they were making me edgy.

I eventually fell severely ill with ME in 2001 and by 2007 had all my teeth pulled out and now have false teeth.

What I realize now was that my dentist I think was right, there was nothing wrong with those teeth. The reason I say that is because I still get the ache, pain and twinge in my jaw bone where my teeth once were !

So anyone experiencing this might find it isn't your teeth that is the problem.

I have had xrays done in the last 6 years and didn't show up any problem in the jaw bone ?

Most people are walking around with infections in their jaws. Quite common from extracted wisdom teeth where the bone never fully heals, or where people have had root canal teeth and the bone around them eventually starts to die off. Quite often there will be an abscess at the bottom. Personally I think dental/jaw bone infections are probably one of the main drivers for CFS in people. It's why I was sick for nearly a decade, and how I got better.

 

[Blue Jay]

Most people are walking around with infections in their jaws. Quite common from extracted wisdom teeth where the bone never fully heals, or where people have had root canal teeth and the bone around them eventually starts to die off. Quite often there will be an abscess at the bottom. Personally I think dental/jaw bone infections are probably one of the main drivers for CFS in people. It's why I was sick for nearly a decade, and how I got better.

I think that's well worth pointing out, Ian. I pestered my dentist to death getting them checked but , thankfully, was refused extraction. The pain is still there when I have a flare-up but I have heard of others having teeth pulled only to be left with the pain.