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THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
@reallyconfused,

2% milk has 18% of the liquid proteins in milk, as is in all varieties of cow milk. There are whey sensitivities that are not methyltrap. I get IBS from milk. The lactase pills make no difference for me. Go without any milk for a couple of weeks, then drink it daily for 2 weeks. Do that a few times and you will know whether you can tolerate it or not. I don't know what causes my sensitivities. Candy with whey in it does make me sick with less than I thought would matter after a few years without. it.

Groups 1, 2a and 2b are low potassium and that is usually a flag that healing has started. Group 3 symptoms, l-methylfolate insufficiencies, can be caused by lack of MeCbl in the cell at the instant needed which fails with folate deficiency symptoms. The questions with folinic acid, veggie folates and folic acid concern whether a person is having only group 3 symptoms having only folate deficiency symptoms without any healing signs or having groups 1,2a, 2b, and 3 indicating healing in some compartments and folate deficiency in others.
 
Messages
10
hi @Freddd i have been seeing some progress using your advice. but i wanted to ask if in your experience it's possible get good results while still taking gabapentin (neurontin)? it can interfere with b12, but i'm not sure how much it really interferes. perhaps you have come across people who were taking it before?
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
Hi @jhlyon ,

Glad to hear of progress. I never took Neurontin. I took Dilantin for I don't know exactly how long, perhaps 15 years, for burning neurological pain and it worked very well. Less than a year after starting MeCbl the neurological pain was relieved and I was able to discontinue Dilantin, Albuterol,other asthma meds, compazine suppositories, 2400 mg/day of ibuprofen (no significant inflammation any more, nothing left that the ibuprofen helped. The Dilation didn't interfere as far as I can tell. It also can interfere with B12 or folate but the methylfolate didn't come along for a couple of more years after that for me. I know a lot of people have been able to discontinue or decrease a variety of medications but don't remember anything about neurontin specifically. I do remember a lot of drowsiness reported and many folks didn't find it useful but others did. You could do a trial withdrawal taper and see what differences it makes.
 
Messages
10
hi @Freddd i was wondering if you have any suggestions - since beginning your b12 etc regime in july - i have been improving though had a nasty fever for a long long time, which i attributed to old infections finally being confronted.

however now i have a new problem - i am very irritable & become easily angry & find it hard to calm down. this is bizarre because i am a very chill person normally . do you have any idea what this could be and how to deal with it ?

thanks.
 

Eastman

Senior Member
Messages
526
hi @Freddd i was wondering if you have any suggestions - since beginning your b12 etc regime in july - i have been improving though had a nasty fever for a long long time, which i attributed to old infections finally being confronted.

however now i have a new problem - i am very irritable & become easily angry & find it hard to calm down. this is bizarre because i am a very chill person normally . do you have any idea what this could be and how to deal with it ?

thanks.

Not Freddd but I have some comments.

The methylation protocol boosts the production of methyl groups which, among other things, methylates vitamin B3 and renders it unavailable. It is possible that after prolonged methylation treatment, a B3 deficiency may have resulted.

Several people on this forum have reported problems with vitamin B1/thiamine deficiency after taking methylation supplements, eg. here. It is possible the methylation protocol also depletes B1.

Irritability is a symptom of both B3 deficiency and B1 deficiency.

Dr Derrick Lonsdale thinks there is an association between B1 deficiency and recurrent fever.
 
Messages
10
@Eastman thats very interesting - thank you for your comment. does it seem to be possible to simply take increased doses of b1 and/or b3 in addition to continuing methylation protocol, or do you have to stop taking b12 altogether?
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
hi @Freddd i was wondering if you have any suggestions - since beginning your b12 etc regime in july - i have been improving though had a nasty fever for a long long time, which i attributed to old infections finally being confronted.

however now i have a new problem - i am very irritable & become easily angry & find it hard to calm down. this is bizarre because i am a very chill person normally . do you have any idea what this could be and how to deal with it ?

thanks.

The year after I had been healing got a sore throat and fever. It wasn't a strep, and the whole thing was persistent and not too intense. It took a couple of months and went away and I haven't had anything like it again in 13 years. I had persistently swollen glands for decades. Docs said "It ,must be scar tissue by now". With 16 grams of vitamin C daily they normalized in a year. It could perhaps be a methylfolate insufficiency in one compartment.

"i am very irritable & become easily angry & find it hard to calm down.". Now this is a different thing. This could be low potassium. Look on the symptoms, not just the ones you mentioned. However, potassium can happen at the same time as other things. And a trial day of 300mg each few hours of potassium is no harm and could save you a lot of problems. If ignored the potassium symptoms become up to fatal. Concerning the irritable and angry mood. Some people have a sequence of moods including those when starting certain items. Do you have anxiety normally. If so this could be from starting the mitochondrial working better and is often tied to the l-carnitine. Sometimes it is if taking a small dose and it runs out before the day is over. Other times it is on a rising level and a person needs to microtitration from 100 mcg to work up to a normal doise and functionality. It can also be a lack of MeCbl, AdoCbl, L-methylfolate or L-carnitine (right form for your body). It can be the balance between MeCbl and AdoCbl. If a person takes glutathione or precursors like NAC they can experience "glutathione detox" or "NAC detox" which is a severe B12 deficiency induced by a possible genetic problem. Whey can also cause this but it takes longer. Some people can experience it from folate deficiency caused by folic acid or folinic acid or even too many veggie folates. Let me know if any of these situations possibly ring the bell. With these nutritional items, if is potassium, it can take hours to feel better. Some things take a day but most is pretty quick.


Version 2.21 12/06/2016 A work in process, incomplete, limited testing, people come in many variations, use at your own risk.
INDUCED DEFICIENCY SYMPTOMS FROM REFEEDING SYNDROME. This can follow 5 days of food deprivation, anorexia, or sort of a pinpoint starvation via vitamin or mineral or amino acid deficiencies. Whatever the “most needed” item is will often cause a strong response. The first usual notable symptoms occur on typically the third day of starting a previously insufficient nutrient. For instance it was noted in the 50s with injections of B12 with potassium deficiency (hypokalemia) as a side effect. It is dangerous and can be unpredictably fatal if not corrected and the cause is continued. When they say people are dying in Syria after they have been starved and given food, they are often sufferring REFEEDING SYNDROME. When previous symptoms return

Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Often called “detox”. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with CyCbl (Cyanocobalamin) it is very common with MeCbl (methylcobalamin) and AdoCbl (adenosylcobalamin) and less so with HyCbl (Hydroxycobalamin).

There does not appear to be a clear order of onset. The order of onset varies widely from person to person but many appear consistent for each episode for any given person. There tend to be more and more intense symptoms as it gets worse. Some people have ended up in the ER because of not recognizing the symptoms.

IBS – Steady constipation, Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum,

Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, spasms and excruciating pain in neck muscles, waking up screaming in pain from muscle spasms in legs. Muscle weakness

Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), increased pulse rate, increased blood pressure

Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.


Group 2a - Both hypokalemia and l-methylfolate deficiency
IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation

Group 2b – Either or both hypokalemia and l-methylfolate deficiency
Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue

Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency, partial methylation block to methyltrap on 1 or more internal triage levels. Frequently called “NAC DETOX” or “GLUTATHIONE DETOX”. Can be caused by folic acid, folinic acid and for some people, like me and quite a few others, excess vegetable folates. Further excess B1, B2, B3 and/or inositol can increase methylfolate deficiency symptoms. Methylfolate, MeCbl and just about anythjing else that starts healing can cause the folate deficiency symptoms.

These symptoms appear in 2 forms generally, the milder symptoms that start with partial methylation block and the more severe symptoms that come on as partial methylation block gets worse or very quickly with methyltrap onset.

Edema - An additional thing I would like to mention. I would never have found it without 5 years of watching the onset of paradoxical folate insufficiency and trying to catch it earlier and earlier and to figure out what was causing it and to reverse it. For me the onset order goes back to the day of onset now with edema and a sudden increase of weight. I noticed that within 2 hours of taking sufficient Metafolin I would have an increase in urine output.
Old symptoms returning in a general sense, a person may have had onset of these hundreds of time if they are on the borderline
Edema
Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores,
Skin rashes, increased acne, Increased itchy acne on scalp and face, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips, painful cracks in the skin at the corner of fingernails at approximate right angles to nails, can take months to occur and it may be only non mood or neurological symptoms.
IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation
Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue
Increased hypersensitive responses, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, rapidly increasing Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms
IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract,
Coated tongue, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Increase irritability, Heart palpitations,
Longer term, very serious:
Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, bleeding easily.

Group 4 - HyCbl onset, degraded MeCbl onset, MeCbl after photolytic breakdown onset.
Itchy bumps generally on scalp or face that develops to acne like lesions in a few days from start.

Group 5 – Copper deficiency after methylation startup has been achieved which often starts refeeding syndrome. 50mg or more of zinc has been indicated as a possible cause. 200-400 mg of zinc has been linked to copper deficiency. Excess supplemental or environmental manganese is linked to copper deficiency. Any or all symptoms can occur at “low normal range” copper tests.

Demyelination of nerves similar to Sub Acute Combined Degeneration except that methylation and ATP startup has occurred, and copper deficiency favors damage to the upper motor neurons with perceived muscle weakness. Brittle nails. Sleep disorders. Mood (especially depression perhaps) and personality changes. Connective tissue breakdown. Spider veins. Varicose veins. Shrinking gums. Gum disease not responsive to usual measures. Unstoppable tooth decay on exposed areas without enamel. Low testosterone

Group 6 – Excess P-5-P, an active form of B6 that appears to drive hematocrit.
High hematocrit. The blood thickens and doesn’t pump as easily. Deep vein thrombosis can result. Other suspected circulatory hazards. Sometimes linked to high testosterone when lowering P-5-P might reduce it.

Group 7 – Excess B-vitamins affecting methylation
When taking the active B12/folate deadlock quartet (AdoCbl, MeCbl, Metafolin, L-methylfolate) Excess B1 - Thiamin, Excess B2 – Riboflavin, Excess B3 – Niacin and/or Excess Inositol can all produce an excess need for potassium to deal with Groups 1, 2a and 2b symptoms and/or produce an excess need for l-methylfolate to reduce groups 2a, 2b and 3 symptoms. A person might not be able to correct by taking potassium or folate and may need to reduce B1 <= 15mg/day, B2<= 10.2mg/day, B3 <=50mg, and inositol below an unknown quantity.

Group 8 – Boron insufficiency.
Arthritis swelling and pain, can be reduced by Boron
Contribution to fatigue, neurological effects.
Runaway tooth decay
Loss of calcium in bones and teeth

https://www.organicfacts.net/health-benefits/minerals/boron.html

Although all of the deficiency symptoms of boron are not fully understood, it is known that boron deficiency might result in the abnormal metabolism of calcium and magnesium. Some of the other symptoms include hyperthyroidism, sex hormone imbalance, osteoporosis, arthritis and neural malfunction.

Group 9 - Vanadium insufficiency
Deficiency of vanadium is poorly known or recognized. It affects tissue permeabilty like insulin.

Group 10 - Lithium insufficiency Non ionizing forms, small micronutrient doses

Lithium allows better permiability of B12 in nervous system memeberanes

Group 11 - Iodine insufficiency, especially needed for those who don't eat iodized table salt and/or seafood.


Group 11 - Iodine
 

Athene*

Senior Member
Messages
386
It slows down the recycling of methylcobalamin, one of the active forms of B12.
I have MTRR A66G ++ and am doing well on methylcobalamin injections daily plus high dose mehtylfolate daily, and Adenosylcobalamin a few times weekly. I also need LCF (L-Carnitine Fumarate) and lots of other minerals and vitamins. I have gone from bed/couch ridden to short easy walks (exercise building is a work in progress, any more exercise for now makes me crash) plus general housework and working from home on my laptop. I have multiple MTRR, and other polymorphisms too; not sure how much they matter, but am doing well on above regime...
 
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Eastman

Senior Member
Messages
526
@Eastman thats very interesting - thank you for your comment. does it seem to be possible to simply take increased doses of b1 and/or b3 in addition to continuing methylation protocol, or do you have to stop taking b12 altogether?

If the methylation protocol is indeed depleting your B1 and/or B3, then stopping it would stop further depletion. That was what I did, relying on the B12 in my B complex only.

If you really need the B12, though, stopping it might give you problems obviously.

I guess you'll just have to experiment on your own.

Just note that if you stop B12 and start B1 and/or B3 simultaneously and your condition changes, you can't be sure whether the change is from stopping B12 or starting B1/B3.
 
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34
i have a folate deficiency (blood tested) but my b12 level is normal.

Each time i take folic acid or methylfolate or high folate foods, i feel better at first for a few hours then i feel awfully wired like my head will explode and i can't sleep, it can last for days depending on the dosage. It's like it's clearing my brain fog for a few hours then leaves me crashing hard with severe anxiety and head pressure. I end up feeling worse than before taking folates.

2 possibilities :

1. I don't take enough folates for the good stuff to last

2. i lack cofactors like b2 b3 or potassium and gets overmethylation symptoms.

I had a large blood test done (cost me 500 euros) and will have results within 15 days, tons of stuff, i'm curious about zinc, copper and for example. And homocysteine of course being low in folates for years. I even took neurotransmitters urine test even if it's in theory not very reliable.

Yes i'm a blood testing junkie. If i could have my private analysis lab in my house, i would play with it 24/7 :)

Anyway, if someone can relate to this low folate issue...
 

Aerowallah

Senior Member
Messages
131
I would start by losing the folic acid, and unless you are looking for complicated answers all I can observe is that folate is very dose dependent. You don't mention dosing. Your only answer is to start very low and titrate up--slowly. Fredd's protocol was a bust for me--AT FIRST--then after a further year of rebalancing I tried again at lower numbers than are usually bandied about here. 175 mcg folate + 750 methylcobalamin + 200 adenosylcobalamin (weekly) + cofactors has taken me to a whole new level of energy, fat absorption, calmness etc. etc. But the methylation definitely stepped up detox stress which is another important focus.
 

Sundancer

Senior Member
Messages
569
Location
Holland
Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Often called “detox”. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with CyCbl (Cyanocobalamin) it is very common with MeCbl (methylcobalamin) and AdoCbl (adenosylcobalamin) and less so with HyCbl (Hydroxycobalamin).

There does not appear to be a clear order of onset. The order of onset varies widely from person to person but many appear consistent for each episode for any given person. There tend to be more and more intense symptoms as it gets worse. Some people have ended up in the ER because of not recognizing the symptoms.

IBS – Steady constipation, Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum,

Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, spasms and excruciating pain in neck muscles, waking up screaming in pain from muscle spasms in legs. Muscle weakness

Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), increased pulse rate, increased blood pressure

Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.

yes, I recognize several of these, and by using potassium got rid of them mostly.

the itching however came back when I titrated up with half a mg of methylcob. I interpreted that as something that happens when i eat food that sets of my gut and thus took bifido infantis for a week. the itching left me ( happily)

but reading this, I think i should take some more potassium before bed, because I still wake up too early with hard calves and bumping heart. I'm wary of taking too much in one go though. Now on about 30% of advised daily intake, over three doses. somewhat more them 10% in morning and evening, somewhat less halfway the day.
 
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34
I would start by losing the folic acid, and unless you are looking for complicated answers all I can observe is that folate is very dose dependent. You don't mention dosing. Your only answer is to start very low and titrate up--slowly. Fredd's protocol was a bust for me--AT FIRST--then after a further year of rebalancing I tried again at lower numbers than are usually bandied about here. 175 mcg folate + 750 methylcobalamin + 200 adenosylcobalamin (weekly) + cofactors has taken me to a whole new level of energy, fat absorption, calmness etc. etc. But the methylation definitely stepped up detox stress which is another important focus.

Oh yes sorry dosage. I frist tried with 400 mcg acid folic which was a nightmare. Then tried only 200 mcg metylfolate (solgar) and it was still very unpleasant. I started low because i was afraid of shoking my body with high doses, thank god (i didn't know about methylation at the time)

Thanks for answering, that methylation protocol looks complicated, fail, adjust and retry kind of thing.
 
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30
A few years ago Freddd gave me a lot of advice re the Simplified Methylation Protocol, in connection with my daughter, Anna. Recently we’ve hit a bit of a brick wall and we’re looking for helpful thoughts from anyone. Freddd?

Anna improved noticeably from following the Protocol, in that she was able to get out of bed and be more mobile, with less pain and fatigue. She also experienced the ‘brightening’ effects you refer to, every time she increased her B12 and folate. When the brightening faded, she knew it was time to increase again. For the first several increments, the brightening was stronger each time. But then, the brightening began to be weaker each time, until eventually it stopped altogether – at about 8000mcg methylcobalamin and about 6400mcg folate daily.

Then she cut back to 1400mcg B12 and 1200mcg folate (partly because she wasn’t getting the brightening any more, and partly because her teeth were becoming very sensitive, from the way she was holding the Enzymatic Therapy B12 Infusion tablets between her teeth and cheeks, for extended periods of time). She has been doing this for 2 years now, and her general condition has neither improved nor worsened.

Throughout the process, she had been taking daily, 1 x Pure Encapsulations B-Complex Plus, providing her with 16.7mg of B6 (40% of which is P5P).

A few months ago she started adding daily, 12.5mg of P5P (giving her a total daily P5P of 29.2mg; i.e. including the P5P from the B-Complex), which she tolerated, but she didn’t notice any effect.

Early last week she added daily another 12.5mg of P5P (giving her a total daily P5P of 41.7mg). She stopped after 2 days because she had a severe reaction. The one positive was that her brain fog lifted (for about 12 hours) and she was able to perform mental tasks that are normally beyond her – but this positive was really only like an adrenaline surge, or a caffeine rush, and even as she experienced it, she knew there would be a price to pay. And there was - palpitations, overheating, thirst, sweating, flushed skin, headaches, hyperactive dreaming, insomnia… and she finally crashed with exreme fatigue and brain fog. Nearly two weeks later, she’s still struggling to recover.

We read that you need to have sufficient B2 to support P5P and so, a few days after the P5P crash, in an attempt to deal with the bad effects of the P5P, she added daily, 25mg of B2 (on top of the 12.7mg in the B-Complex). This made things worse – she had been starting to recover from the P5P crash, but the B2 brought it all back again.

This is leading us to think there is some problem with the trans-sulfuration pathway, because the CBS enzyme relies on B6. She had her homocysteine tested a year ago and it was 4.7umol/L, which we believe is on the low side. Does her low homocysteine and difficulties with B2/B6 suggest an upregulation in the CBS enzyme? She also has chronically low magnesium (in spite of supplementing by every means available) and we think there may be a link between that and the P5P intolerance?

Or, could the reaction to P5P be a sign that some process was waking up, but that she simply took more than her system was able to manage – and she should try again, but starting with a tiny dosage? (She worries that she might be doing herself some harm with the P5P/B2, so is reluctant to experiment further.)

Anna’s urine is always dark yellow, despite drinking a lot of water; and she always feels dehydrated. The strong urine colour is 24/7; i.e. it happens long after B2 supplementation - could this be ‘B2 wasting’; i.e. B2 not being used, whether from food or supplements – or could it be due to excessive ammonia/sulfur/other waste in the urine? (Her urine pH varies between 5 and 9; i.e. is often strongly alkaline.)

If anyone has any thoughts about where to go from here, I’d love to hear them.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,397
Location
Austria
She also has chronically low magnesium (in spite of supplementing by every means available)

Can only comment on this bid. Have been suffering very sever Mg-deficiency and therefore titrating oral elemental supplemental daily Mg from 700 mg up to 2.6 g in the course of 10 years, this alleviated very painful muscle-cramps only somewhat, serum and whole blood Mg decreased even further.

Only by chance found out that the wife of my GP (also a GP and specialized on homeopathy) gives inexpensive vitamin C IVs. Therefore got since November last year til now 9 Mg-sulfate IVs, and only that ceased the muscle-cramps from the Mg-deficiency completely.

Therefore with a Mg-deficiency unresponsive to oral supplementation, try to find someone able to give IV (Mg-sulfate ampules are available here at the pharmacy without prescription, 19,- € for 5 IVs), or use such ampules with a nebulizer (see Dr. Myhill webside for details). Mg-deficiency for too long has just too many system-wide implications, for leaving it untreated for too long.
 

howirecovered

Senior Member
Messages
167
A few years ago Freddd gave me a lot of advice re the Simplified Methylation Protocol, in connection with my daughter, Anna. Recently we’ve hit a bit of a brick wall and we’re looking for helpful thoughts from anyone.

One thing I did not appreciate when I summarized this thread years ago at http://howirecovered.com/active-b12-therapy-faq/ it is that most of my symptoms stem from candida which is aggravated by B vitamin supplementation especially folate and supplements that increase alkalinity like magnesium.

I would make sure to take a candida diagnostic questionnaire and consider taking B vitamins two hours after or before meals. Another thing I do is to take my B12 and folate with iodine and coconut oil to control candida... I also swallow my b12 now having learned so much about the key role dental infections play in chronic illness. As it happens gum disease is a symptom of candida as well, so lots of things to juggle here.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
One thing I did not appreciate when I summarized this thread years ago at http://howirecovered.com/active-b12-therapy-faq/ it is that most of my symptoms stem from candida which is aggravated by B vitamin supplementation especially folate and supplements that increase alkalinity like magnesium.

I would make sure to take a candida diagnostic questionnaire and consider taking B vitamins two hours after or before meals. Another thing I do is to take my B12 and folate with iodine and coconut oil to control candida... I also swallow my b12 now having learned so much about the key role dental infections play in chronic illness. As it happens gum disease is a symptom of candida as well, so lots of things to juggle here.

@howirecovered,

I had low copper (unknown until my gums were falling apart and had to have all my uppers pulled, reversing the gum problems s a week before the lowers would have come out too. The liver damage,copper deficiency ( slow motion refeeding syndrome and deficiency copper enzymes, damage from antibiotics, candida from hell in my mouth and going down my throat and in my urethra and who knows where else. I had pills and external salves for a month. I ended up functionally deficiently with copper, manganese, boron (forest fire runaway tooth decay), molybdenum, vanadium, lithium orotate (trace mineral non-ionic), all the wasn't absorbing enough of and a couple I hadn't started. If all folate deficiency symptoms are finished with then low copper at serum of 60 I was back up to almost MCV=102. I started correcting the trace minerals and the candida hasn't been back and by liver has recovered.I also got Molluscum Contagiosum (poxvirus), an infection I got in high school on my back in sports, reactivated from an old dried lesion scar(I thought) overlapping the candida in time, not space.. My immune and balance was screwed. Take a hard look at copper and at your liver. Iodine is also a trace mineral. Connective Tissue problems happen with copper deficiency,varicosities, dark gums falling apart and soon. Goodluck.

Up to date refeeding syndrome symptoms by order and nutrients,improved trace minerals.

https://www.quora.com/Has-someone-u..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1808215186
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
A few things I need to clarify. Consider that making a new cell can fail only once. That means basically that if there isn't MeCbl at the moment needed, the cell fails and therefore can't fail because of partial methylation folate lack or folic acid unconverted in place of methylfolate, or can't fail because of lack of B6 -P5P or can't fail for lack of copper or can't fail for lack of ATP (or a lot of others in a specific order and there we have some of the the fail pattern for MCV going up rapidly even. Remember, the only symptoms showing represent where a cell or process fails.

Another example, fissures at the nail corner(s) from 1-20;, in order affected by lack of nutrient -
  1. MeCbl (20 locations),
  2. Methylfolate (5-10 locations),
  3. copper (1), after "last folate sensitive symptom, for me MCV, is corrected at 45mg methylfolate daily"
  4. needing to switch type of methylfolate for 2 days to renew functionality of original type (with other symptoms